Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[Flying Colors]

I can't wait for Suns Offseason thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

[King4Day]

I can't wait for Suns Offseason thread V: I Am My Brother's Kieffer

I second this one for the new title for the next thread.

[SunsRback4Good]

Well I am a die-hard on Suns fan. The Suns are my favorite sports team by far over every other sports team in the world and the NBA is my favorite sports league. I do not really have a secondary team but there are certain teams I hate like the Spurs and the Kings. As far as favorite power forwards go, I love Tim Duncan (even though I hate the Spurs, I have full respect for them). I love Dirk. He is one of my favorite players to watch by far. I think Blake Griffin is awesome and has become so much better than I ever thought he could be. I really like Zach Randolph's game. I also think Lamarcus Aldridge is great too. Chris Bosh when he is healthy is great. I would take any one of those players on my team.

I am obviously a die hard Suns fan as well, but when I know they are not in the running for the championship, I usually pick my favorite team who is, and pull for them. I guess I imagine if I didn't do that, I would be much more pissed off with my nba experience. It at least gives me someone to really pull for and teams to root against. For example, I think Durant, and even Ibaka are just quality guys, and Westbrook is super exciting, and they have had terrible luck the past two years...so I pull for them right now. I pulled for the Kings from 2000-2003 and the Wolves in 2004. Never over the Suns though, but I wanted to see the juggernauts get taken down. The Kings and Wolves and now Thunder have experienced bad luck much like we did when we were championship quality. It just seems like teams like the Spurs rarely experience an injury to a top 3 player killing their chances.

I watch so much basketball. As many games as I can. Although I usually do not care who wins if the Suns are not involved. My favorite non-Suns players to watch are Kobe and Durant, especially Kobe after 2007. Prior to 2007 he was a little too selfish but I think he changed his game once the Lakers got Gasol. He became a much more complete player and elevated his own game dramatically. He is everything I wish the Suns had in a player. Incredible talent, tireless worker, strives for greatness, awesome defender, very high IQ, super clutch, and a do whatever it takes to win champion. He really became my favorite non-Suns player after his performance for the U.S. Olympic team. I have seen him play so many times in person and it never gets old.

Started out great, I had my reading glasses on but you lost me at Kobe and I threw my glasses towards the wall and shattered them and now I'm depressed. Thanks

[Sunsdeuce]

I am obviously a die hard Suns fan as well, but when I know they are not in the running for the championship, I usually pick my favorite team who is, and pull for them. I guess I imagine if I didn't do that, I would be much more pissed off with my nba experience. It at least gives me someone to really pull for and teams to root against. For example, I think Durant, and even Ibaka are just quality guys, and Westbrook is super exciting, and they have had terrible luck the past two years...so I pull for them right now. I pulled for the Kings from 2000-2003 and the Wolves in 2004. Never over the Suns though, but I wanted to see the juggernauts get taken down. The Kings and Wolves and now Thunder have experienced bad luck much like we did when we were championship quality. It just seems like teams like the Spurs rarely experience an injury to a top 3 player killing their chances.

I watch so much basketball. As many games as I can. Although I usually do not care who wins if the Suns are not involved. My favorite non-Suns players to watch are Kobe and Durant, especially Kobe after 2007. Prior to 2007 he was a little too selfish but I think he changed his game once the Lakers got Gasol. He became a much more complete player and elevated his own game dramatically. He is everything I wish the Suns had in a player. Incredible talent, tireless worker, strives for greatness, awesome defender, very high IQ, super clutch, and a do whatever it takes to win champion. He really became my favorite non-Suns player after his performance for the U.S. Olympic team. I have seen him play so many times in person and it never gets old.

Started out great, I had my reading glasses on but you lost me at Kobe and I threw my glasses towards the wall and shattered them and now I'm depressed. Thanks

Have to agree. If you truly love basketball and fundamentals, Kobe should not be your favorite player. Kobe can score the hell out of the basketball but there isn't much more to his game than that. If your a guard and it takes you 17 years to hit the 6000 assist mark, your a ball hog (even after "2007"). Kobe has just been blessed to play with some of the most dominating players through his years. Kobe is easily the MOST overrated NBA player of ALL TIME!

Also, quick point, for the last time, Duncan has never been and never will be a "forward". The Spurs have tried (and it seems to have worked on a lot of people) for years to brainwash everyone into thinking he is a power forward. Hard to believe especially since every team uses their centers to guard Duncan.

[Frank Lee]

You may have a point about Ennis, but you can't ignore the net effect of getting Thomas. We ended up with 3 firsts for Dragic and Thomas. You tell me if, on this Suns team, you'd rather have just Dragic at his current overpriced deal, or else 3 future 1sts, including 2 without protection. The result was a positive. And I for one never thought we signed Thomas as a guy to keep long-term. We saw a market inefficiency with Thomas as being undervalued, we had cap space to burn, and instead of overpaying for many of the pedestrian PF's this site oggles over, we signed an admittedly redundant player to a bargain contract. I don't think anyone ever intended it to "cost" us Dragic, but you can't knock the FO for that without looking at the netted return for moving Goran. This team is better prepared for the future without him and with those picks. Even Goran was never a guy I saw helping us contend because the age of those around him was too young. By the time the rest of our cast was ready to contend, Goran would be on the decline.

Same with the Morri. They never had these issues before the extension, and there is no question the contracts (at least Kieff's) was a bargain. Marcus we got a 2nd for--so we replaced what the previous regime gave up to get him. At the same time, we don't know what we'll get for Kieff. I keep reading people b****ing about us getting Marcus in the first place and this being foreseeable, but Banks was the one who got Marcus--not McDonough. And once we had him, you tell me if we get Markieff at $8 mil without having Marcus here too. The net effect of those extensions were a 2nd rounder plus we get whatever we get for Markieff. Not sure that's a bad move. Also, it's not really foreseeable to anticipate the Morri were going to have all of these off the court issues at the time the extensions were signed. They weren't committing felonies before all of this.

It's not a smooth process, but I feel like people who actually see us over the past 2 years for what we are (a re-building team that happens to have better players than tank teams) instead of a team trying to contend, you have to live with the results of the moves. How can you say signing someone into our cap space and trading him 6 months later for a first is a loss? That's a manufactured asset. You trade Dragic, another asset, who is about to be an FA and get overpaid for 2 unprotected firsts? You sign 2 players who, despite what anybody on this board thinks, are solid on the court and for next to nothing right before a rising cap year--that's a win, even if you have to trade them and deal with this circus. If we get a first, that's another manufactured asset.

We have one of the best GM's in the league. I agree it's been dramatic and bumpy, but the idea that he hasn't produced results as far as our asset base (which is what matters for our team--I would rather keep getting firsts than sell out for vets who get us an 8 seed the past 2 years when we clearly couldn't win a title) is laughable. He's only failed if you're looking at short-term wins because you misunderstand where the team is, and therefore prefer to get the 8 seed or trade half our unlikable youngsters for crazy old vets.

Best post about where the team is this offseason imo. Agree 100%

You guys clearly place a lot more value on these draft picks than I, and sure are comfortable thinking Dragic has peaked and will be washed up at 33. You also assume we would have paid Dragic the same as Miami (which will likely look like a normal deal as the spending spree escalates) May be consider a happy Dragon would have signed a lessor deal to remain the #1 dog. Two can assume, no?

I see you also neglected to mention we gave up LA's 1st to get Knight along with 2014's #18(Ennis). Who would have thought we'd trade LA's pick (????) AND the #18 which BTW, we got for theGORTAT and 2012's #13 (Marshall) Repeat... Martin GORTAT +2012 #13 ... for Tyler Ennis. How did that one 'Net'-out ? But lets not go there... that fogs up the glasses.

I place little value on the Cleveland pick. Odds are it wont amount to anything tangible for 2-3 yrs (see Goodwin) or may be a draft and stash euro.

Miami's 2017-18 top 7 protected and 2021 1st....As long as Mickey is the owner and Riley the GM... and Miami (the city) doesn't fall off the earth they will be competitive as they are always going to be an attractive FA stop. ...those will likely be mid picks at the best.

Thats a late and two mid 1sts. May be, just may be Miami's 2021 slides into a top slot... but with the current quest to rebuild/retool/regurgitate I think its an even bet Mcduh trades them as he attempts to land a superstar....
and catch his feather in a windstorm.

The best post on where we are ???? Wow. That calls for a new pair

[bigfoot]

Can any of you rah rah-ers at least acknowledge this Front Office has screwed up in the handling of their players ? Do we need to list out all of McDuh (and the Babbler) 's transactions just so you can see that they are not collectively King Midas. Some critical mistakes/gambles have been made. I guess every talking head, outsider, and general boarder is completely wrong in their **** hitting the fan assessment of this team. Let alone me.

This is not how the Front Office envisioned things to be. Not even close.

Surely the FO didn't envision the 2013-14 season. We were supposed to suck right. Worst team in the NBA suckage.

Sounds like you're unhappy with IT, Dragic, Morri, and Plumlee maneuverings in 2014-2015. Granite Hands Plumlee was never going to be our long term center with Alex Len in the fold. He bitched about minutes after Len supplanted him in the starting lineup and we traded him. Every fan saw the writing on the wall for Plums. The Morri are the ultimate narcissistic personalities, two self-absorbed twins with IQs less than 100 who inflate each other egos to levels never before seen. How can you fault the FO for these two boneheads. Finally, IT and Dragic complaining about roles on the team and the latter demanding a trade when we are winning and in playoff contention. So the FO moves them for younger assets and doesn't overpay an aging Dragic ($18M per year).

The front office cleaned out a bunch of bitchy and whiny millionaires and gained significant assests: No Chandler without trading Dragic, no Knight without moving IT, three future 1sts round picks and a second round pick.

The biggest mistake McD has made was not keeping a veteran leader for last years team. So yes our FO is not perfect. The team imploded because Frye was the mental glue sorely missing from last year. The numbers showed how much Frye meant to the team when he was on the court but everyone laughed that off. What we really missed was how he held things together in the locker room. What we had on our hands was a bunch of whiny young-uns with no adults to rein them in. The front office has admitted lack of veteran leadership was a problem several times since the season ended. That's one of the reasons why they went after Chandler.

[bwgood77]

I am obviously a die hard Suns fan as well, but when I know they are not in the running for the championship, I usually pick my favorite team who is, and pull for them. I guess I imagine if I didn't do that, I would be much more pissed off with my nba experience. It at least gives me someone to really pull for and teams to root against. For example, I think Durant, and even Ibaka are just quality guys, and Westbrook is super exciting, and they have had terrible luck the past two years...so I pull for them right now. I pulled for the Kings from 2000-2003 and the Wolves in 2004. Never over the Suns though, but I wanted to see the juggernauts get taken down. The Kings and Wolves and now Thunder have experienced bad luck much like we did when we were championship quality. It just seems like teams like the Spurs rarely experience an injury to a top 3 player killing their chances.

I watch so much basketball. As many games as I can. Although I usually do not care who wins if the Suns are not involved. My favorite non-Suns players to watch are Kobe and Durant, especially Kobe after 2007. Prior to 2007 he was a little too selfish but I think he changed his game once the Lakers got Gasol. He became a much more complete player and elevated his own game dramatically. He is everything I wish the Suns had in a player. Incredible talent, tireless worker, strives for greatness, awesome defender, very high IQ, super clutch, and a do whatever it takes to win champion. He really became my favorite non-Suns player after his performance for the U.S. Olympic team. I have seen him play so many times in person and it never gets old.

Started out great, I had my reading glasses on but you lost me at Kobe and I threw my glasses towards the wall and shattered them and now I'm depressed. Thanks

I felt the same way.

[bwgood77]

I watch so much basketball. As many games as I can. Although I usually do not care who wins if the Suns are not involved. My favorite non-Suns players to watch are Kobe and Durant, especially Kobe after 2007. Prior to 2007 he was a little too selfish but I think he changed his game once the Lakers got Gasol. He became a much more complete player and elevated his own game dramatically. He is everything I wish the Suns had in a player. Incredible talent, tireless worker, strives for greatness, awesome defender, very high IQ, super clutch, and a do whatever it takes to win champion. He really became my favorite non-Suns player after his performance for the U.S. Olympic team. I have seen him play so many times in person and it never gets old.

Started out great, I had my reading glasses on but you lost me at Kobe and I threw my glasses towards the wall and shattered them and now I'm depressed. Thanks

Have to agree. If you truly love basketball and fundamentals, Kobe should not be your favorite player. Kobe can score the hell out of the basketball but there isn't much more to his game than that. If your a guard and it takes you 17 years to hit the 6000 assist mark, your a ball hog (even after "2007"). Kobe has just been blessed to play with some of the most dominating players through his years. Kobe is easily the MOST overrated NBA player of ALL TIME!

Also, quick point, for the last time, Duncan has never been and never will be a "forward". The Spurs have tried (and it seems to have worked on a lot of people) for years to brainwash everyone into thinking he is a power forward. Hard to believe especially since every team uses their centers to guard Duncan.

He was strictly called a PF so he could start in all star games in his early career, because with Shaq around, that wasn't going to happen at C, at least not until 2005.

[letsgosuns]

I know Kobe is a ballhog and also a Laker, and that is a touchy subject for most Suns fans. However, there is a reason why Jerry Colangelo was diligently trying to trade up in the draft to select him in 1996. As well as try to trade Kidd and Marion for him (rumored) and also offer him a max contract at 9:00 p.m. Phoenix time on June 30, 2004. I remember it said that on the breaking news update ticker that was on the bottom right corner of ESPN news when that used to be the format for that channel. It said Suns offer 90+ million dollar max contract to Kobe. In addition, Kobe was also the first person Colangelo wanted to join Team U.S.A. when he took over U.S.A. Basketball. It is because of how awesome Kobe is. It is also why Colangelo just said yesterday do not count Kobe out of the 2016 Olympics.

[Frank Lee]

The front office cleaned out a bunch of bitchy and whiny millionaires and gained significant assests: No Chandler without trading Dragic, no Knight without moving IT, three future 1sts round picks and a second round pick.

Pretty sure we could have added Chandler and kept Dragic, had McDuh just laid off the unnecessary asset collection.

And are you really excited about cleve's pick this yr ? really ? as much as y'all were jazzed about the LA pick with seems to have vaporized in the trade discussions. Was it worth the disruption ?

I am wary of McDuh's reckless wheeling and dealing, tired of the Babblers constant spin> Two yrs ago he was so far up Gorans butt the dragon couldn't whistle out a fart without passing by Lon.... he was the face of the franchise... The Dragon and Bled were storming and the Suns were exciting, enjoyable to watch, and allegedly one player away... . WhatTF happened??? Its ALL on the hands of the Meddler McDuh. Two steps back for one reactionary step forward.

I don't have the same faith with Knight and Bled as our main stars going forward. Neither is a proven PG, which is likely why we have to have the two. The 'potential' is there, but so many Ifs have to play out. McDuh is sure all the F in on his 27 million redundant back court. And it cost more than that.

We'll see how this plays out...

[KLEON]

I know Kieff is being an ass clown right now but to be honest there are no real replacements for this guy. I didn't realize until now that the NBA is lacking in good power forwards.

[Frank Lee]

Big Baby is waiting for a call

[Jdiddy701]

Anybody read what Austin Rivers tweeted? What an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[NTB]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/632247766601867264[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNBA/status/632249274047315969[/tweet]

[KLEON]

Anybody read what Austin Rivers tweeted? What an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

What did he say?

[NTB]

Anybody read what Austin Rivers tweeted? What an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

What did he say?

[Kerrsed]

New thread: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1403816