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Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season

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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#21 » by batsmasher » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:12 am

1. Booker
2. We know A LOT more about Archie and Len and their futures with the Suns (due to the injuries).
3. PJ... holy **** this man gets no love. Seriously good year for a glue guy that had nothing to glue together.
4. We have a coaching vacancy at a time that the coaching pool is stacked
5. We are twin free
6. Lots of money & a GM who doesn't make many drafting mistakes.

rsavaj wrote:Brandon Knight on Suns guard mix: "I see my role being exactly the same."
Bench not an option? "Like I said, I see my role being the same."

from Coro's twitter

can we move this dude already? Not a bad player, and seems like a nice guy, but I want players who know/accept their roles.

You expect the co-captain of the team (getting paid $13M) to say something along the lines of "ye nah, actually I think this 19 year old kid who's had 1 year in the league on a non-competitive team should start instead of me".

Of course he's gonna expect to start. People are forgetting that Knight & Bled was a smoking hot combo for a while. Recency bias.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#22 » by b-ball forever » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:59 am

Good points Qwigglez.

Another somewhat ironic positive is that missing out on signing Aldridge might not be that bad after all. Still wouldn't have made the playoffs with the Bledsoe/Knight injuries, and wouldn't have gotten a high pick with him either.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#23 » by spanishninja » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:46 pm

rsavaj wrote:Brandon Knight on Suns guard mix: "I see my role being exactly the same."
Bench not an option? "Like I said, I see my role being the same."

from Coro's twitter

can we move this dude already? Not a bad player, and seems like a nice guy, but I want players who know/accept their roles.


to be fair, it was not his fault that we dealt a starting guard in Dragic and eventually got Knight to replace him. With those circumstances, it's kind of hard for him not to convince him that our desired role for him was off the bench. He should have never been acquired in the first place. And you certainly don't sign a guy to a $70million contract if you do not expect him to be a starter.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#24 » by saintEscaton » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:13 pm

This thread needs more hot takes and negativity
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#25 » by bwgood77 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:17 pm

spanishninja wrote:
rsavaj wrote:Brandon Knight on Suns guard mix: "I see my role being exactly the same."
Bench not an option? "Like I said, I see my role being the same."

from Coro's twitter

can we move this dude already? Not a bad player, and seems like a nice guy, but I want players who know/accept their roles.


to be fair, it was not his fault that we dealt a starting guard in Dragic and eventually got Knight to replace him. With those circumstances, it's kind of hard for him not to convince him that our desired role for him was off the bench. He should have never been acquired in the first place. And you certainly don't sign a guy to a $70million contract if you do not expect him to be a starter.


And he was a starter and almost made the all star team and then we traded for him and if we end up bringing him off the bench it will be another communication error, which could end poorly and mess up chemistry.

However, the Suns don't really owe him anything. He signed a contract and makes plenty of money so he needs to accept his role, whatever it is.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#26 » by ATTL » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:43 am

Just think, if Bledsoe was never injured that could be us having the privilege of getting slaughtered by the thunder or warriors.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#27 » by TeamTragic » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:07 am

batsmasher wrote:1. Booker
2. We know A LOT more about Archie and Len and their futures with the Suns (due to the injuries).
3. PJ... holy **** this man gets no love. Seriously good year for a glue guy that had nothing to glue together.
4. We have a coaching vacancy at a time that the coaching pool is stacked
5. We are twin free
6. Lots of money & a GM who doesn't make many drafting mistakes.


Now you have a hard on for Tucker? :lol:

ATTL wrote:Just think, if Bledsoe was never injured that could be us having the privilege of getting slaughtered by the thunder or warriors.


I'm sure Frank Lee and batsmasher would be right there saying it was good experience :roll:
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#28 » by lilfishi22 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:00 am

batsmasher wrote:1. Booker
2. We know A LOT more about Archie and Len and their futures with the Suns (due to the injuries).
3. PJ... holy **** this man gets no love. Seriously good year for a glue guy that had nothing to glue together.
4. We have a coaching vacancy at a time that the coaching pool is stacked
5. We are twin free
6. Lots of money & a GM who doesn't make many drafting mistakes.

rsavaj wrote:Brandon Knight on Suns guard mix: "I see my role being exactly the same."
Bench not an option? "Like I said, I see my role being the same."

from Coro's twitter

can we move this dude already? Not a bad player, and seems like a nice guy, but I want players who know/accept their roles.

You expect the co-captain of the team (getting paid $13M) to say something along the lines of "ye nah, actually I think this 19 year old kid who's had 1 year in the league on a non-competitive team should start instead of me".

Of course he's gonna expect to start. People are forgetting that Knight & Bled was a smoking hot combo for a while. Recency bias.

Dude I had no idea you were Aussie (don't think you had the location public) until I read this in your post

Solid post and I agree with all your post especially the part about PJ
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#29 » by batsmasher » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:28 pm

GoranTragic wrote:Now you have a hard on for Tucker? :lol:

The disclaimer here is I didn't watch much basketball on the back end of the season.

But I think we all projected PJ to crumble without a PG to get him in positions on offense to be effective. Instead, quite the opposite happened. He relished the extra touches.

Using bball ref's gamescore, here's a breakdown of his games:

Number of 10+ Gamescore games
Games 1-20: 2
Games 20-40: 6
Games 40-60: 7
Games 60-82: 11

Seriously impressive progression over the year. He looked like steaming poo early in the year, but turned it around at put in some huge games late. Get this: post all-star he had a POSITIVE net rating and an ORtg of 109.

Annnd he's the most physical player on our team yet he still manages 82 games. I think he's moved on from super-extreme-nacho eating PJ, at least the improved consistency of his performances suggest that.

GoranTragic wrote:I'm sure Frank Lee and batsmasher would be right there saying it was good experience :roll:

Eh, it's the mentality that counts. It's really hard to go from being losers to winners in a season. It's much easier to go from competitive to really competitive (and in with a title chance). And like I have mentioned before, playoffs are a big deal for Sarver (as more of a vote of confidence than anything, as well as being a big boost to the buzz in the city + $$ booster)
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#30 » by batsmasher » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:38 pm

OK this bizarre stat from PJ deserves its own post:

He shot 38.3% from 3 at home and 26.4% from 3 on the road. He really has made those corners his home :P
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#31 » by Qwigglez » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:59 pm

Hey Batsmasher, I'm actually interested in PJ Tucker's stats from last season. I feel like he performed well during the back half of that season as well. I feel like he does the complete opposite during the summer, instead of working out and honing in on his game he just consumes as many calories as he can and watches tv all day.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#32 » by TeamTragic » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:02 pm

batsmasher wrote:
GoranTragic wrote:Now you have a hard on for Tucker? :lol:

The disclaimer here is I didn't watch much basketball on the back end of the season.

But I think we all projected PJ to crumble without a PG to get him in positions on offense to be effective. Instead, quite the opposite happened. He relished the extra touches.

Using bball ref's gamescore, here's a breakdown of his games:

Number of 10+ Gamescore games
Games 1-20: 2
Games 20-40: 6
Games 40-60: 7
Games 60-82: 11

Seriously impressive progression over the year. He looked like steaming poo early in the year, but turned it around at put in some huge games late. Get this: post all-star he had a POSITIVE net rating and an ORtg of 109.

Annnd he's the most physical player on our team yet he still manages 82 games. I think he's moved on from super-extreme-nacho eating PJ, at least the improved consistency of his performances suggest that.

GoranTragic wrote:I'm sure Frank Lee and batsmasher would be right there saying it was good experience :roll:

Eh, it's the mentality that counts. It's really hard to go from being losers to winners in a season. It's much easier to go from competitive to really competitive (and in with a title chance). And like I have mentioned before, playoffs are a big deal for Sarver (as more of a vote of confidence than anything, as well as being a big boost to the buzz in the city + $$ booster)


If Tucker was a decent player with a good contract then why didn't any competitive teams come knocking right before the trade deadline? Same thing with Teletovic unless McD planned to keep him after he started getting in his groove towards season end.

Definitely easier to go from great to elite. I will agree with you on that one :D

Qwigglez wrote:Hey Batsmasher, I'm actually interested in PJ Tucker's stats from last season. I feel like he performed well during the back half of that season as well. I feel like he does the complete opposite during the summer, instead of working out and honing in on his game he just consumes as many calories as he can and watches tv all day.


2016 Oliver Miller :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#33 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:05 am

batsmasher wrote:1. Booker
2. We know A LOT more about Archie and Len and their futures with the Suns (due to the injuries).
3. PJ... holy **** this man gets no love. Seriously good year for a glue guy that had nothing to glue together.
4. We have a coaching vacancy at a time that the coaching pool is stacked
5. We are twin free
6. Lots of money & a GM who doesn't make many drafting mistakes.

rsavaj wrote:Brandon Knight on Suns guard mix: "I see my role being exactly the same."
Bench not an option? "Like I said, I see my role being the same."

from Coro's twitter

can we move this dude already? Not a bad player, and seems like a nice guy, but I want players who know/accept their roles.

You expect the co-captain of the team (getting paid $13M) to say something along the lines of "ye nah, actually I think this 19 year old kid who's had 1 year in the league on a non-competitive team should start instead of me".

Of course he's gonna expect to start. People are forgetting that Knight & Bled was a smoking hot combo for a while. Recency bias.


A) We know more about Len and Goodwin, but I am not sure that we know as much as we need to.

B) Knight and Bledsoe constituted a "smoking hot combo" for, what, a couple of weeks in November against weak competition? The duo's dubious nature had become apparent long before they went down with injuries, with Hornacek even moving Knight to the bench for a game. I am not demanding an immediate trade of either of them, but they do not constitute a solid foundation at all.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#34 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:08 am

ATTL wrote:Just think, if Bledsoe was never injured that could be us having the privilege of getting slaughtered by the thunder or warriors.


... probably not, though. The Suns were on pace to win 32 games when Bledsoe went down ...
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#35 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:21 am

Qwigglez wrote:Here we are yet again not making the playoffs but what are some of the positive things to take away from this season.

1.) Devin Booker - This kid has surprised everyone. I remember watching him in summer league, he missed several NBA threes hitting the front iron. I remember thinking, well that is easily adjustable, his shot is dead on he just needs to put a little extra mustard to make the net splash. His mid-range jumper however, he was clanking a lot of those. I thought, well he can improve that next summer, he can be a three point specialist off the bench as a rookie and that's a pretty good accomplishment for his rookie season. I did not expect him to make in season adjustments as well as he has. I believe he can take his game to the next level, and it's gonna be fun when he averages 20 points per game next season and people are complaining that he should be getting 23-25 a game.
The thing I want Booker to work on most over the offseason is his ball-handling. Second would be shooting, and third would be defense. I put defense last because I'm not sure how he can work on his defense over the offseason.

2.) Alex Len - I know the board is pretty divided on Len supporters. I've always been a Len supporter and I believe he's had a very good season staying healthy. Next year should be his best season yet. Not really much to say, except I hope he works on his post moves this summer and conditioning.

3.) TJ Warren - He was having a solid second season campaign and I actually don't know how he broke his foot. I really didn't think he could hit a 3 pointer with consistency mostly because his shot mechanics is more suited for a mid-range jumper (if that makes sense). Hopefully he continues to make strides and comes back even better next season.

4.) The pick. We have a small chance to move into the top 2. It's hard to be hopeful about something that just comes down to luck. There's actually a thread on the GB about who everyone wants Ben Simmons to play for, and I think the Suns were one of top two choices. I didn't think others fans wanted the Suns to actually be good, but it's very enlightening. If we don't get a top two pick then I don't really care much if the Suns trade the pick, they can do whatever they want with it at that point.

5.) Eric Bledsoe - It sucks that he got injured because he was becoming the leader of the team and that started over the summer. He was having an incredible season racking up stats that not many other players can do. Really hopeful that he comes back healthy next season.


6.) Mirza Teletovic - I was very very happy when the Suns signed him because I thought he would fill the void that Frye left. He's actually exceeded my expectations and I hope he comes back next season for a good price.

All in all, it's seems like we've walked under ladders, broken mirrors, walked by black cats, the whole nine yards of bad luck this season. I hope our luck changes in about 6 weeks starting with the draft lottery and we'll go from there.


Bledsoe was having a good season when he went down, but I would not call it "incredible." The only major difference in his numbers was that he shot the ball from the field a lot more than ever before, thus bumping his scoring average into the 20-points per game range. Otherwise, he was basically the same guy statistically that he had been in the past: the same type of field goal percentage, the same average of free throw attempts, the same average of assists and the same awful assists-to-turnover ratio (awful for a starting point guard, at least).

Bledsoe's offensive skill level (ball-handling, passing, shooting) did seem to have improved. Unfortunately, his judgment had not improved, meaning that his level of statistical value remained static.

Bledsoe could be a really valuable player on the right roster, but he is analogous to a talented pitcher in baseball who is more a "thrower" than a "pitcher." Like many other "point guards" around the NBA these days (Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Brandon Knight), Bledsoe spent just one year in college and is thus, years into his NBA career, still learning how to try and function as a point guard and how to play the game offensively beyond sheer talent. He would be more viable as a building block with a passing forward such as Draymond Green to complement him.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#36 » by batsmasher » Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:47 am

GMATCallahan wrote:B) Knight and Bledsoe constituted a "smoking hot combo" for, what, a couple of weeks in November against weak competition? The duo's dubious nature had become apparent long before they went down with injuries, with Hornacek even moving Knight to the bench for a game. I am not demanding an immediate trade of either of them, but they do not constitute a solid foundation at all.

Completely agree, how can it not be a shaky foundation? They've spent all of a few months together on court. Both have crap injury histories and one is the biggest confidence player in the NBA.

I still think BK can work, he looks catastrophically bad when he's not doing well. There is no middle gear, but as long as he has a top gear I will have faith that he can fulfill his potential as a pure shooter.

I can say with some confidence that BK will have a year or two where he actually figures it out and he isn't just in a purple patch. Whether that is a year away.. 2... 5... I don't know. But there is plenty to work with.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#37 » by Qwigglez » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:52 am

GMATCallahan wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:Here we are yet again not making the playoffs but what are some of the positive things to take away from this season.



5.) Eric Bledsoe - It sucks that he got injured because he was becoming the leader of the team and that started over the summer. He was having an incredible season racking up stats that not many other players can do. Really hopeful that he comes back healthy next season.




Bledsoe was having a good season when he went down, but I would not call it "incredible." The only major difference in his numbers was that he shot the ball from the field a lot more than ever before, thus bumping his scoring average into the 20-points per game range. Otherwise, he was basically the same guy statistically that he had been in the past: the same type of field goal percentage, the same average of free throw attempts, the same average of assists and the same awful assists-to-turnover ratio (awful for a starting point guard, at least).

Bledsoe's offensive skill level (ball-handling, passing, shooting) did seem to have improved. Unfortunately, his judgment had not improved, meaning that his level of statistical value remained static.

Bledsoe could be a really valuable player on the right roster, but he is analogous to a talented pitcher in baseball who is more a "thrower" than a "pitcher." Like many other "point guards" around the NBA these days (Kyrie Irving, Derrick Rose, Brandon Knight), Bledsoe spent just one year in college and is thus, years into his NBA career, still learning how to try and function as a point guard and how to play the game offensively beyond sheer talent. He would be more viable as a building block with a passing forward such as Draymond Green to complement him.


Maybe "incredible" wasn't the correct wording, perhaps "surprising" fits better. I was overall surprised by his demeanor coming into the season. I felt like he was really focused but became fatigued and distraught with the MoBros drama as the season progressed. I thought he was also more vocal during games and showed more emotions but maybe I just wasn't paying as much attention to him the years before.
If we got lucky enough to get the top two pick, do you feel like Simmons would be the perfect player for Bledsoe to play with?
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#38 » by bwgood77 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:03 pm

batsmasher wrote:
GMATCallahan wrote:B) Knight and Bledsoe constituted a "smoking hot combo" for, what, a couple of weeks in November against weak competition? The duo's dubious nature had become apparent long before they went down with injuries, with Hornacek even moving Knight to the bench for a game. I am not demanding an immediate trade of either of them, but they do not constitute a solid foundation at all.

Completely agree, how can it not be a shaky foundation? They've spent all of a few months together on court. Both have crap injury histories and one is the biggest confidence player in the NBA.

I still think BK can work, he looks catastrophically bad when he's not doing well. There is no middle gear, but as long as he has a top gear I will have faith that he can fulfill his potential as a pure shooter.

I can say with some confidence that BK will have a year or two where he actually figures it out and he isn't just in a purple patch. Whether that is a year away.. 2... 5... I don't know. But there is plenty to work with.


I was trying to think "What player has made a drastic improvement in turnovers and fg% after year 5?" So I checked a couple of guys...Jamal Crawford...not really, and Jason Terry, and he actually improved in both respects quite a bit...check it out. But of course his role probably changed quite a bit, which is probably what should happen with Knight. His turnovers went down, as did his assists, but he got closer to a 3-1 than 2-1 ast/to ratio, but with those kind of ratios, handling the ball less is a good thing. But playing more off ball he became a much better 2 and 3 pt shooter.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/terryja01.html
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#39 » by jcsunsfan » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:08 pm

Anyone else notice that Tucker's improvement this year seemed to coincide with TJ's injury? Just checked. Not really. He really started to improve in the last 10 games of the season. Not sure what that means.
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Re: Positive takeaways from the 2015-16 season 

Post#40 » by MathiasPW » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:21 pm

It means "he embraced the process, he embraced his role, and we love him for that, and for what he is "
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