DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
I'm really quite down on Lonzo as an overall prospect given he's seemingly "locked" as a top 2 prospect - especially if he's being drafted to play the point. I don't think you can call his defense as anything other than terrible for the NBA. I would much prefer to draft another terrible defender in DSJ given DSJ can score from all three levels which is what a point basically has to do these days. Its a shame because I really think Ball's vision is obviously elite, but his (relative) poor handle and shot mechanics mean he will never score from the mid-level or close to the rim in the NBA, and thus will be pretty easy to defend. I wouldn't touch him anywhere in the top 10 for the 6ers, despite the fact he fits the way we play under Brown and would probably OK playing off-ball with Simmons. I'm hoping the Celtics or Lakers reach on him in the top 3; it would be worth it for me for the Lakers pick to not convey to us this year if they, say, had the 2nd pick overall and got Ball, not only because their fans are seriously deluded but also because he will add nothing to their roster and give us a real shot at Porter/Doncic in 2018, or one of the excellent PG prospects next year in case the Simmons thing fails with their unprotected pick.
LakersDynasty14 wrote:Lonzo Ball is literally on a Hall of Fame trajectory at this point. This thread is so full of fail.
shakes0 wrote:I hope they put Simmons on Trae. He'll foul him out by the 3rd quarter. plus Simmons can't stay in front of Trae. No one can.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Bogyo wrote:I also see him as something between Iggy and Wiggins, to be honest I don't even really understand the small-ball 4 thing with him. Yes, he was pretty much forced to play that in college last year, and was good at it, but he is a wing. Yes, he needs to be a better shooter, but so did Iggy, Wiggins, Khwai, etc... Guess what? They did become better - to warying degrees. To me the only question is how much better will JJ become? Not much? Then he is a poor mans Igoudala. A lot? We might have a better Wiggins, or dare I say a Khwai on our hands for the forseeable future next to Booker. In this draft he is clear #2 to me only behind Fultz.
I consistently see comparisons made to these players and Butler, all of who panned out. But how come no one ever mentions Kidd-Gilchrist? Elite motor, athleticism, defense, do-it-all intangibles type in college. Shot 26% from 3 but 75% from the line. Young for his class, too. Looked like a can't-miss prospect. And yet, a miss. It's funny that he and Marvin Williams are on the same team, because there's another guy in the same mold. Both went #2 in their respective draft classes. Ha! Looks like if we want a star SF, we should be looking late lotto (*cough* TJ Warren *cough*) or someone who slips past the first entirely (*cough* DJJ *cough*).
This is the thing about Jackson - his floor is basically ordinary small forward. Just an ordinary SF with elite handles. Rebounds okay, defends pretty well, better passer than most, shaky shooter, good athleticism, solid frame. I can see a player so described as having a mediocre career. We should all be able to see that, because sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you work or how quality a person you are. You don't have IT. I don't know if he does, and it's basically impossible to know.
One thing we should all be acknowledging here, too. If nothing else, DJJ is clearly longer and more athletic than Jackson, right now. Same age. Kid played GOOD MINUTES for a losing NBA TEAM last year. I'm pretty confident Josh Jackson ain't Jordan, and there are other players with ceilings at least as high as JJ available. So... I'm in the minority on this board. Little interest in JJ for me. Not skeptical about the player as much as I am just trying to exercise reason and restraint.
MrMiyagi wrote:PLO wrote:I'm not really sure that's how it works in terms of age of prospects - Kawhi was middle first round, Butler I think second rounder - agreed if Jackson ends up even 90% of Jimmy Butler he's a slam-dunk top 3, but obviously I don't think he'll get there. Frank N, 18 months younger, will be a better defender and more versatile on that end than Jackson IMO, and they might end up playing roughly the same position in the NBA given Jackson's going to really struggle defensively vs NBA power forwards.
You think the 6'5 170lbs French point guard is going to be better and more versatile defensively than the 6'8 203lbs small forward because you don't think Jackson can defend power forwards next level? Why? Size and strength difference? Doesn't the problems you foresee Jackson having with power forwards match the problems Frank would have with small forwards? Wouldn't that make him a less versatile defender, only able to effectively guard 2 positions (1/2) vs 3 (1/2/3)?
I agree with PLO - Ntilikina could be a legit multi-positional defender, and Jackson very well could be able to guard just SFs. Or Ntilikina could be unable to guard anyone, and Jackson able to motivate himself into being able to switch onto most forwards. I'm waiting for the workout circuit to tell me a bit more about how these guys look up close.
MrMiyagi wrote:PLO wrote:My point is Jackson is getting blown by by guards in college - I think he's limited to exclusively guarding fellow SFs which will limit his minutes - at the start of the season I thought he was rare Swiss-army knife defender adept at defending multiple positions - I no longer think that (and in fact I think eventually Isaac will be that player if there is one from this draft). Frank N will be able to defend fellow guards and occasionally pinch hit against SFs, I think he's going to be a lot more useful defensively in a league dominated by PGs. Hey, I'm not sold on Frank N as an initiator and he could well be the next Dante Exum in terms of being defensively solid but offensively inept, but if you look at the Sixers we are running with Simmons as the initiator and we need someone who can defend the opposition PG who is comfortable playing off ball - that's why I'd go with Frank N ahead of Jackson. Fair enough other teams have different needs.
Hey, I'm not trolling here - this is a good thread with some solid opinions in it - end of the day none of us is right and none wrong, its all conjecture at this stage.
I didn't think you were trolling, I just don't get your opinion. You're also a 76ers fan in a Suns thread. I don't see French Frank as ever being a more versatile defender than Jackson. Higher impact might've been a better choice for what you seem to be describing (which I'd still argue against).
Mr. M's one of our board's best, but I just want to clarify that we're always excited to be visited by apparently knowledgeable fans who are willing to provide an outside perspective. Welcome PLO! I share several of your concerns (including with Ball, whom I suspect we'll draft if available). I really like Ntilikina and Isaac as well and think DSJ belongs in the conversation near the top of the draft. I'm far more skeptical about Fox than you appear to be, mostly because I'm not sure whether his quickness will prove to be all that special on the NBA level, given his frame.
So many of these players - I wish they'd stay in college, so we'd be in a better position to evaluate them. It really is tough. I'm not comfortable at the top of this draft. I think Fultz is pretty much can't miss, and Ball could be special. After that, I'm not any higher on this draft than the players already on our roster. I was open to taking Ulis at #13 last year, and nothing he's done this season has diminished his prospects. I think Ulis's resume is better than any of the PGs in this draft outside the Top 2. I like our young talent 1-4. The 5 spot is our biggest question mark, in part because Dragan looks about as comfortable at the 2 at this point in his career as he does at the 5. I'm warming up to Zach Collins a bit, but of course I'd be much happier if we could throw together a package consisting of Knight, TJ, and our top pick and maybe even a Heat pick or two if necessary, to pick up this apparently disgruntled young player and stick him at the C spot: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245623/Kristaps-Porzingis-Skips-Exit-Meetings-With-Knicks.
Bledsoe-Ulis
Booker-Barbosa-Millsap
Bender-DJJ
Chriss-Dudley
Porzingis-Williams-Chandler
That lineup could use a tough wing, and I would feel most comfortable if Bledsoe were moved and Ulis was starting. I love Tyler Ulis. Have I mentioned that? I'd throw offers at Livingston and Iggy,
***
The more I think about it, the more interested I am in moving our pick if we're not in the top 2. If we're at 3 and Philly at 5 and we can't move up, I'd be calling PLO in order to make idle threats, hoping that he's willing to deal.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Bahahahah I'd gladly take Porzingis off the Knicks' hands.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Can you please do a writeup and analysis on OG Onunoby?
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
I love all these series (thanks darealjuice) about the best prospects in this draft, but I think this one about Jackson is a little bit uncompleted because you do not talk about his off the court issues and his demeanor on the court.
http://www.swishappeal.com/2017/4/12/15280024/josh-jackson-arraigned-vandalism-charges-ncaam-ncaaw
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kansas-freshman-josh-jackson-suspended-for-first-game-of-the-big-12-tournament/
He looks inmature...and on the court he was always talking to referees and too much hotheaded IMO a lot of times.
I like him as a player a lot, more and more after watching him more entire games the last few weeks but this is something that I do not like.
http://www.swishappeal.com/2017/4/12/15280024/josh-jackson-arraigned-vandalism-charges-ncaam-ncaaw
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kansas-freshman-josh-jackson-suspended-for-first-game-of-the-big-12-tournament/
He looks inmature...and on the court he was always talking to referees and too much hotheaded IMO a lot of times.
I like him as a player a lot, more and more after watching him more entire games the last few weeks but this is something that I do not like.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Saberestar wrote:I love all these series (thanks darealjuice) about the best prospects in this draft, but I think this one about Jackson is a little bit uncompleted because you do not talk about his off the court issues and his demeanor on the court.
http://www.swishappeal.com/2017/4/12/15280024/josh-jackson-arraigned-vandalism-charges-ncaam-ncaaw
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kansas-freshman-josh-jackson-suspended-for-first-game-of-the-big-12-tournament/
He looks inmature...and on the court he was always talking to referees and too much hotheaded IMO a lot of times.
I like him as a player a lot, more and more after watching him more entire games the last few weeks but this is something that I do not like.
Like I said at the top of the post, I'm not going to go into off the court stuff because 1) we don't know the entire situation, he's come out on his twitter a couple times saying stuff like "allegedly..." and "yeah believe everything you read on the internet because it's always true," so I get the feeling he doesn't agree with some of the articles and 2) it will have almost no effect on his draft stock. Was it dumb? Absolutely. There's no good reason for kicking someone's car and he didn't have to engage the situation. With that said it's not the Morris brothers and their friends beating some dude in broad daylight.
You know who chirps at refs and **** talks more than any recent young player I've seen? Devin Booker. You know who's been involved in the most near-fights on the court I've seen in awhile? Marquese Chriss. I'm fine with him being passionate on the court just like I'm fine with Booker being cocky and Chriss being the first one to step into altercations on the court.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Hot head from Kansas....? How quickly we forget.
Im with you Cosmo.... beware of the next MKG. In fact, as i hear more discussions about these guys, all of them, I think Fultz is the one and only ....the rest.... one big homogenous bunch loaded with land mines.
Hmmmm. Sounds like almost every draft.
Im with you Cosmo.... beware of the next MKG. In fact, as i hear more discussions about these guys, all of them, I think Fultz is the one and only ....the rest.... one big homogenous bunch loaded with land mines.
Hmmmm. Sounds like almost every draft.
What ? Me Worry ?
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Kidd-Gilchrist as a Freshman:
31 mpg 11.9 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.9 apg 1.0 spg 0.9 bpg 2.2 TO 53.5% 2ptFG% 25.5% 3ptFG% 74.5% FT%
Jackson as a Freshman:
30 mpg 16.3 ppg 7.4 rpg 3.0 apg 1.7 spg 1.1 bpg 2.8 TO 54.9% 2ptFG% 37.8% 3ptFG% 56.6% FT%
Honestly, Kidd-Gilchrist isn't a bad player, but he is an offensively inept one. Jackson has shown much better offensive skills. If Jackson is MKG with offense, that's still pretty damn good player.
31 mpg 11.9 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.9 apg 1.0 spg 0.9 bpg 2.2 TO 53.5% 2ptFG% 25.5% 3ptFG% 74.5% FT%
Jackson as a Freshman:
30 mpg 16.3 ppg 7.4 rpg 3.0 apg 1.7 spg 1.1 bpg 2.8 TO 54.9% 2ptFG% 37.8% 3ptFG% 56.6% FT%
Honestly, Kidd-Gilchrist isn't a bad player, but he is an offensively inept one. Jackson has shown much better offensive skills. If Jackson is MKG with offense, that's still pretty damn good player.
Suns traded Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and 4 1st round picks and a swap so some Vegas Bookies would like us.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov
Let us sing when we can, and forget the rest. - H.P. Lovecraft
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. - Isaac Asimov
Let us sing when we can, and forget the rest. - H.P. Lovecraft
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Devin booker, josh Jackson, and marquese chriss would get into so many fights with other teams.
Like the 80s pistons without the defense.
Like the 80s pistons without the defense.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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ATTL wrote:Devin booker, josh Jackson, and marquese chriss would get into so many fights with other teams.
Like the 80s pistons without the defense.
It'll be even worse with Lonzo and the entire NBA trying to shut his daddy up.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
I feel like he's staying. Odd he hasnt declared yet
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Wow, wow, wooooow... have you guys seen the form of MKG's shot when he was in college????
If not, google picture finder is your friend. Not the same game, not the same ballpark, not even the same sport.
If not, google picture finder is your friend. Not the same game, not the same ballpark, not even the same sport.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
camillepd wrote:Can you please do a writeup and analysis on OG Onunoby?
Darealjuices are 100x better and more detailed but heres a scouting report I wrote:
http://www.armchairallamericans.com/prospect-breakdown-og-anunoby/
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
The passing sounds great. The defense sounds good in theory. How does his length compare to guys like MKG and Jimmy Butler? I do worry about his free throw shooting and 3 pt shooting. Being that bad at FT shooting and shooting fairly well from 3, but only on very low volume doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. Doesn't seem like a likely star type play, but probably a solid rotation/glue guy (with potential star quality). I am interested in seeing the write up on Ball. Fultz obviously still feels like the clear cut #1 but Jackson is still sitting at #2 for me at this point, though I'd love to know what we are doing with Bledsoe.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Mkg has 7' wingspan
Jimmy butler 6'7.5" wingspan
JJ 6'10" wingspan
Jimmy butler 6'7.5" wingspan
JJ 6'10" wingspan
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Juice! When is Ball coming?
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
cosmofizzo wrote:Bogyo wrote:I also see him as something between Iggy and Wiggins, to be honest I don't even really understand the small-ball 4 thing with him. Yes, he was pretty much forced to play that in college last year, and was good at it, but he is a wing. Yes, he needs to be a better shooter, but so did Iggy, Wiggins, Khwai, etc... Guess what? They did become better - to warying degrees. To me the only question is how much better will JJ become? Not much? Then he is a poor mans Igoudala. A lot? We might have a better Wiggins, or dare I say a Khwai on our hands for the forseeable future next to Booker. In this draft he is clear #2 to me only behind Fultz.
I consistently see comparisons made to these players and Butler, all of who panned out. But how come no one ever mentions Kidd-Gilchrist? Elite motor, athleticism, defense, do-it-all intangibles type in college. Shot 26% from 3 but 75% from the line. Young for his class, too. Looked like a can't-miss prospect. And yet, a miss. It's funny that he and Marvin Williams are on the same team, because there's another guy in the same mold. Both went #2 in their respective draft classes. Ha! Looks like if we want a star SF, we should be looking late lotto (*cough* TJ Warren *cough*) or someone who slips past the first entirely (*cough* DJJ *cough*).
This is the thing about Jackson - his floor is basically ordinary small forward. Just an ordinary SF with elite handles. Rebounds okay, defends pretty well, better passer than most, shaky shooter, good athleticism, solid frame. I can see a player so described as having a mediocre career. We should all be able to see that, because sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you work or how quality a person you are. You don't have IT. I don't know if he does, and it's basically impossible to know.
One thing we should all be acknowledging here, too. If nothing else, DJJ is clearly longer and more athletic than Jackson, right now. Same age. Kid played GOOD MINUTES for a losing NBA TEAM last year. I'm pretty confident Josh Jackson ain't Jordan, and there are other players with ceilings at least as high as JJ available. So... I'm in the minority on this board. Little interest in JJ for me. Not skeptical about the player as much as I am just trying to exercise reason and restraint.MrMiyagi wrote:PLO wrote:I'm not really sure that's how it works in terms of age of prospects - Kawhi was middle first round, Butler I think second rounder - agreed if Jackson ends up even 90% of Jimmy Butler he's a slam-dunk top 3, but obviously I don't think he'll get there. Frank N, 18 months younger, will be a better defender and more versatile on that end than Jackson IMO, and they might end up playing roughly the same position in the NBA given Jackson's going to really struggle defensively vs NBA power forwards.
You think the 6'5 170lbs French point guard is going to be better and more versatile defensively than the 6'8 203lbs small forward because you don't think Jackson can defend power forwards next level? Why? Size and strength difference? Doesn't the problems you foresee Jackson having with power forwards match the problems Frank would have with small forwards? Wouldn't that make him a less versatile defender, only able to effectively guard 2 positions (1/2) vs 3 (1/2/3)?
I agree with PLO - Ntilikina could be a legit multi-positional defender, and Jackson very well could be able to guard just SFs. Or Ntilikina could be unable to guard anyone, and Jackson able to motivate himself into being able to switch onto most forwards. I'm waiting for the workout circuit to tell me a bit more about how these guys look up close.MrMiyagi wrote:PLO wrote:My point is Jackson is getting blown by by guards in college - I think he's limited to exclusively guarding fellow SFs which will limit his minutes - at the start of the season I thought he was rare Swiss-army knife defender adept at defending multiple positions - I no longer think that (and in fact I think eventually Isaac will be that player if there is one from this draft). Frank N will be able to defend fellow guards and occasionally pinch hit against SFs, I think he's going to be a lot more useful defensively in a league dominated by PGs. Hey, I'm not sold on Frank N as an initiator and he could well be the next Dante Exum in terms of being defensively solid but offensively inept, but if you look at the Sixers we are running with Simmons as the initiator and we need someone who can defend the opposition PG who is comfortable playing off ball - that's why I'd go with Frank N ahead of Jackson. Fair enough other teams have different needs.
Hey, I'm not trolling here - this is a good thread with some solid opinions in it - end of the day none of us is right and none wrong, its all conjecture at this stage.
I didn't think you were trolling, I just don't get your opinion. You're also a 76ers fan in a Suns thread. I don't see French Frank as ever being a more versatile defender than Jackson. Higher impact might've been a better choice for what you seem to be describing (which I'd still argue against).
Mr. M's one of our board's best, but I just want to clarify that we're always excited to be visited by apparently knowledgeable fans who are willing to provide an outside perspective. Welcome PLO! I share several of your concerns (including with Ball, whom I suspect we'll draft if available). I really like Ntilikina and Isaac as well and think DSJ belongs in the conversation near the top of the draft. I'm far more skeptical about Fox than you appear to be, mostly because I'm not sure whether his quickness will prove to be all that special on the NBA level, given his frame.
So many of these players - I wish they'd stay in college, so we'd be in a better position to evaluate them. It really is tough. I'm not comfortable at the top of this draft. I think Fultz is pretty much can't miss, and Ball could be special. After that, I'm not any higher on this draft than the players already on our roster. I was open to taking Ulis at #13 last year, and nothing he's done this season has diminished his prospects. I think Ulis's resume is better than any of the PGs in this draft outside the Top 2. I like our young talent 1-4. The 5 spot is our biggest question mark, in part because Dragan looks about as comfortable at the 2 at this point in his career as he does at the 5. I'm warming up to Zach Collins a bit, but of course I'd be much happier if we could throw together a package consisting of Knight, TJ, and our top pick and maybe even a Heat pick or two if necessary, to pick up this apparently disgruntled young player and stick him at the C spot: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245623/Kristaps-Porzingis-Skips-Exit-Meetings-With-Knicks.
Bledsoe-Ulis
Booker-Barbosa-Millsap
Bender-DJJ
Chriss-Dudley
Porzingis-Williams-Chandler
That lineup could use a tough wing, and I would feel most comfortable if Bledsoe were moved and Ulis was starting. I love Tyler Ulis. Have I mentioned that? I'd throw offers at Livingston and Iggy,
***
The more I think about it, the more interested I am in moving our pick if we're not in the top 2. If we're at 3 and Philly at 5 and we can't move up, I'd be calling PLO in order to make idle threats, hoping that he's willing to deal.
B/c Kidd Gilchrist is the most brokenest of shots ever. He shot with his elbow facing damn near perpendicular to the hoop.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
Bogyo wrote:Juice! When is Ball coming?
I'm hoping to get it done by tonight/tomorrow morning so I can post tomorrow, but I'm going out of town this weekend so if I can't tomorrow it'll be up for sure on Monday
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
AtheJ415 wrote:
B/c Kidd Gilchrist is the most brokenest of shots ever. He shot with his elbow facing damn near perpendicular to the hoop.
Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
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Re: DarealJuice Draft Series Part 5: Josh Jackson
MrMiyagi wrote:Kidd-Gilchrist as a Freshman:
31 mpg 11.9 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.9 apg 1.0 spg 0.9 bpg 2.2 TO 53.5% 2ptFG% 25.5% 3ptFG% 74.5% FT%
Jackson as a Freshman:
30 mpg 16.3 ppg 7.4 rpg 3.0 apg 1.7 spg 1.1 bpg 2.8 TO 54.9% 2ptFG% 37.8% 3ptFG% 56.6% FT%
Honestly, Kidd-Gilchrist isn't a bad player, but he is an offensively inept one. Jackson has shown much better offensive skills. If Jackson is MKG with offense, that's still pretty damn good player.
Plus 1.
People here dont watch MKG...
Absolute beasty defender and good finisher. Would put up better numbers on a good passing team.
If Josh Jackson is a better offensive version of MKG... You draft him.