Bellator General Discussion and Info

[HarthorneWingo]

getting choked is not very draining, it is more draining on the person using the energy to sync in the choke.
I have a few years jiu jitsu experience

But if you have the hold on correctly, the dude should go out, no? What do you think happened here?

just rewatched the fight. so Shamrock was doing a trachea choke. Which is essentially crushing your throat. More of a pain move. This type of move wont put you out. It may crush your throat but you wont go to sleep from it. He couldnt get enough leverage because he didnt get his non choking hand behind the back of kimbos head, rather he was holding it on the top of kimbos forehead.. Still sucks for kimbo but you can fight it, as you can see kimbo kept reaching and grabbing for the off hand which stopped the majority of the pressure.

The ideal rear naked choke will have your both arteries on the side of your opponents neck blocked. One side by your bicep, and the other with the side of your forearm. This should form a V with your elbow under your opponents chin.

hopefully that helps. I am not the greatest at explaining things. I am more of a visual demonstrator

Yeah, thanks, that was a great explanation. But, c'mon, Shamrock of all people knows how to execute a proper sleeper hold from behind. Hell, even I know you push the head forward from behind. And you are absolutely correct that Ken was pushing on the top of Kimbo's head. Does that sound fishy to you?

[REDDzone]

Ariel was saying all week how high the bellator brass is on Corales. If that's true, why put him in there with a beast like Straus first thing? Doesn't make sense.

[JPHolling]

But if you have the hold on correctly, the dude should go out, no? What do you think happened here?

just rewatched the fight. so Shamrock was doing a trachea choke. Which is essentially crushing your throat. More of a pain move. This type of move wont put you out. It may crush your throat but you wont go to sleep from it. He couldnt get enough leverage because he didnt get his non choking hand behind the back of kimbos head, rather he was holding it on the top of kimbos forehead.. Still sucks for kimbo but you can fight it, as you can see kimbo kept reaching and grabbing for the off hand which stopped the majority of the pressure.

The ideal rear naked choke will have your both arteries on the side of your opponents neck blocked. One side by your bicep, and the other with the side of your forearm. This should form a V with your elbow under your opponents chin.

hopefully that helps. I am not the greatest at explaining things. I am more of a visual demonstrator

Yeah, thanks, that was a great explanation. But, c'mon, Shamrock of all people knows how to execute a proper sleeper hold from behind. Hell, even I know you push the head forward from behind. And you are absolutely correct that Ken was pushing on the top of Kimbo's head. Does that sound fishy to you?

There is know doubt Shamrock knows how to execute the choke, but he wasnt patient enough to get it in properly/deep enough...
perhaps it was a con job. I'm on the fence about it

[Cammo101]

After watching it again, I'm still every bit as convinced as I was last night that it was a work. Kimbo looked like he was lifting his legs to be taken down and that choke was as fishy as it gets. Either the Worlds Most Dangerous Man completely forgot how to choke out a white belt, or he was just trying to make it look convincing enough before letting go of the hold.

[SDM]

Viacom's going to get involved with worked MMA? I don't know about that. I don't think they have any tiny Japanese dudes with multi-colour back pieces on payroll.

[cowboyronnie]

I'm on the side of work now. Rogan talking about how unstressed they looked coming into the ring. The takedown was weird...Kimbo leapt in and then just paused, Ken grabbed him easy. Not to mention the choke.

[cowboyronnie]

I feel like the choke - trachea or not - was really damn tight...to the point where they might have risked Kimbo tapping. You'd have to be really good to make it look stressing on the dude but not to the point where he'll have to tap.

So maybe not a work.

[REDDzone]

The takedown was the suspicious part to me. It doesn't surprise me that the inflexible corpse of 51 year old Ken Shamrock with bodybuilder biceps wasn't able to shoot his arm far enough across Fat Kimbo's throat to get the crook of his arm under Kimbo's chin.

The takedown though? James Toney might have countered that. But sometimes this is what low level mma looks like. I still don't think it was a work.

[REDDzone]

Why the hell woyuld it be a work anyway? If Ken won, they go Ken/Tito 7 and watch the money pile up.

[cowboyronnie]

a work cos one or both don't want none. of martial arts training, conditioning, stress of competition. some curls and crunches, lotsa steroids. easy money.

[Cammo101]

Why the hell woyuld it be a work anyway? If Ken won, they go Ken/Tito 7 and watch the money pile up.

It's a work because Shamrock is a relic no one cares about, but Kimbo, for some reason, still moves the meter. It was also very fishy that retired Seth Petruzelli just happened to be cageside calling out Kimbo right after he won. Seems a pretty convenient setup for the next Kimbo fight.

[Cammo101]

Viacom's going to get involved with worked MMA? I don't know about that. I don't think they have any tiny Japanese dudes with multi-colour back pieces on payroll.

Clearly if this was a work, it didn't come down from execs at Viacom. I'm guessing most suits at Viacom don't even know what Bellator is.

[REDDzone]

I'm guessing most suits at Viacom don't even know what Bellator is.

Lol really?

[REDDzone]

a work cos one or both don't want none. of martial arts training, conditioning, stress of competition. some curls and crunches, lotsa steroids. easy money.

The KO was real enough. It would seem weird to me to not be willing to train martial arts despite living in a gym, but to be willing to take a KO like that flush to the face by a dude who outweighs you by so much.

[REDDzone]

Was Rogan calling it a work when Shamrock literally dropped for no reason against Franklin in the ufc? I would say he dropped to a phantom punch but I don't even know if Franklin actually even threw a punch. That one was literally 100 times more suspicious.

[Cammo101]

I'm guessing most suits at Viacom don't even know what Bellator is.

Lol really?

Viacom owns huge brands like Paramount, Nickelodeon, and MTV. I seriously doubt the goings on at Bellator gets a lot of talk at HQ.

[Cammo101]

a work cos one or both don't want none. of martial arts training, conditioning, stress of competition. some curls and crunches, lotsa steroids. easy money.

The KO was real enough. It would seem weird to me to not be willing to train martial arts despite living in a gym, but to be willing to take a KO like that flush to the face by a dude who outweighs you by so much.

The more likely rational is that Shamrock is shot and broke and he would, in theory, stand to get a decent chunk of hush money to let Kimbo punch him in the face and take his KO. What's a large gash and a little more brain damage when it allows you to stop living in a gym?

[REDDzone]

a work cos one or both don't want none. of martial arts training, conditioning, stress of competition. some curls and crunches, lotsa steroids. easy money.

The KO was real enough. It would seem weird to me to not be willing to train martial arts despite living in a gym, but to be willing to take a KO like that flush to the face by a dude who outweighs you by so much.

The more likely rational is that Shamrock is shot and broke and he would, in theory, stand to get a decent chunk of hush money to let Kimbo punch him in the face and take his KO. What's a large gash and a little more brain damage when it allows you to stop living in a gym?

I'm not refuting your point here. But just to clarify, Shamrock and his family have a house lol. But apparently he lived in an RV parked outside the mma gym for months leading up to this fight.

[Cammo101]

I'm not refuting your point here. But just to clarify, Shamrock and his family have a house lol. But apparently he lived in an RV parked outside the mma gym for months leading up to this fight.

I'd have much preferred the fight have been on the level and Shamrock found a way to win. I hate to see how he has gone from legend to complete joke. But, he has no one to blame but himself.

[REDDzone]

It seems like a lot of those early fighters are in dire straights whether it be braindamage in or jail or impoverished now. I mean even by the time pride came around it was becoming a career path. Imagine a world where mma doesn't exist, okay now imagine someone approaches you and asks you to fight in a tournament in a cage with no rules, no time limits, etc. The type of person to accept a proposition like that probably isn't going to have the best long-term outlook.