Bellator General Discussion and Info

Jasen777 · Post #1161 » by **Jasen777** » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:19 pm

Shamrock was a leg lock guy. He doesn't have a rear naked choke win since gloves were introduced. He was never a choke or back control expert. He told Luke Thomas that before training for this fight he had not trained any ground in years (due to injuries and I think doing bare knuckle fighting). At the open workout he just did Kimuras. I'd believe he just couldn't get the grip right over Coker willing to risk losing his licensee and jail time. (Thomas goes with the bad MMA between two old guys theory which I agree with).

REDDzone · Post #1162 » by **REDDzone** » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:09 pm

One thing I just randomly thought of...it sucks for bellator about this whole Rampage thing. Since they seem to have this goal of having four black guys fight in a tournament, it would have been cool for this to have Rampage in these instead of Vassal (sp?). Don't get me wrong, I think Vassal is good, but Rampage/Mr. Wonderful/Newton/King Mo is actually decent name value.

Jasen777 · Post #1163 » by **Jasen777** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:27 am

Joe Schilling got someone to stand with him.

Also Bellator signed Koscheck .

REDDzone · Post #1164 » by **REDDzone** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:50 am

Wait Joe Schilling got ktfo standing?

edit: Just saw it. Man he took a big shot.

REDDzone · Post #1165 » by **REDDzone** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:56 am

So I just skimmed this long story but I guess Schlemenko's camp is saying he got completely screwed by the CSAC, no proper protocol followed at all. They didn't take a b-sample, didn't let him appeal, only upped his sentence to 3 years and 10k fine when he wouldn't plead guilty and pay the fine, etc.

The no b-sample is sketchy as hell.

Cammo101 · Post #1166 » by **Cammo101** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:00 pm

REDDzone wrote:Wait Joe Schilling got ktfo standing?

edit: Just saw it. Man he took a big shot.

MMA may not be for him. He was a berserker kickboxer, but he looks bad fighting MMA.

Nemesis21 · Post #1167 » by **Nemesis21** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:00 pm

Koscheck signs with Bellator,

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/13157298/josh-koscheck-signs-bellator

cowboyronnie · Post #1168 » by **cowboyronnie** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:17 pm

Kos at one time was known for handling his money really well. Making a lot of money outside of fighting. Did he lose it? Cos there is no reason he should be fighting for competition's sake.

I'm showing up right now to say I saw that Schilling KO coming. He's lazy with his hands...it's the Badr Hari/K1 style of aggression. The odds on that fight for Schilling were nuts. Really bummed I didn't bet.

REDDzone · Post #1169 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:59 am

cowboyronnie wrote:I'm showing up right now to say I saw that Schilling KO coming. He's lazy with his hands...it's the Badr Hari/K1 style of aggression. The odds on that fight for Schilling were nuts. Really bummed I didn't bet.

Really? I'm sorry I didn't see that as well. He is 2-5 in mma, finished 4 times in 7 fights, regardless of what he did in kickboxing.

REDDzone · Post #1170 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:04 am

cowboyronnie wrote:Kos at one time was known for handling his money really well. Making a lot of money outside of fighting. Did he lose it? Cos there is no reason he should be fighting for competition's sake.

See, was he? IDK. The only context I recall hearing about Kos and his money was some comparison of him vs Diego. Both tuf1 guys who fought each other. Diego supposedly drove a honda civic or some such while Kos was rolling in some sports car type ride. Diego was known as very frugal while Kos was more...flamboyant. I got the impression Kos was a big spender. I did have the impression that he had business ventures outside of the ufc though.

REDDzone · Post #1171 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:18 am

How good is Schilling in terms of kickboxing? This is so interesting to me. Is he really high level or is he just high level in terms of kickboxer turned mma fighter? You almost never ever see a high level jiu jitsu guy come into mma and be submitted. Never. Camozzi and Jacare could fight every 25 minutes for the next two decades and Camozzi wouldn't submit him once, believe that. Yet Schilling gets KOed of the year by a dude none of us has ever heard of? Just a weird thing.

I feel like there are only two possible conclusions to draw from this (assuming Schilling is actually a good striker and not just bellator hyped):
1. Striking is just a lot less controlled. I mean this makes sense in terms of the fact that striking is free movement and grappling isn't. At least in terms of jiu jitsu, you control and then submit, although not all grappling arts have this philosophy.
or
2. Grappling sports/arts translate to the mma game better for whatever reason. Maybe its the cage, maybe its the athletes making the transitions.

SDM · Post #1172 » by **SDM** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:29 am

If Kos owns that stuff outright, he's doing very well. If he lives off credit, he's in trouble. Same story as with us regular folk.

Great signing for Bellator even if he probably shouldn't be taking more damage. Daley II money is too good to pass up, so maybe he's broke?

REDDzone · Post #1173 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:37 am

SDM wrote:If Kos owns that stuff outright, he's doing very well. If he lives off credit, he's in trouble. Same story as with us regular folk.

Great signing for Bellator even if he probably shouldn't be taking more damage. Daley II money is too good to pass up, so maybe he's broke?

REDDzone · Post #1174 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:38 am

LOL the funny part is that even the corpse of Kos' corpse will probably still 30-27 Daley. Daley sucks.

SDM · Post #1175 » by **SDM** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:46 am

REDDzone wrote:How good is Schilling in terms of kickboxing? This is so interesting to me. Is he really high level or is he just high level in terms of kickboxer turned mma fighter? You almost never ever see a high level jiu jitsu guy come into mma and be submitted. Never. Camozzi and Jacare could fight every 25 minutes for the next two decades and Camozzi wouldn't submit him once, believe that. Yet Schilling gets KOed of the year by a dude none of us has ever heard of? Just a weird thing.

I feel like there are only two possible conclusions to draw from this (assuming Schilling is actually a good striker and not just bellator hyped):
1. Striking is just a lot less controlled. I mean this makes sense in terms of the fact that striking is free movement and grappling isn't. At least in terms of jiu jitsu, you control and then submit, although not all grappling arts have this philosophy.
or
2. Grappling sports/arts translate to the mma game better for whatever reason. Maybe its the cage, maybe its the athletes making the transitions.

It's hard to find a guy in kickboxing-then-MMA that hasn't had fewer than 50 fights and/or hasn't been knocked out a half dozen times. I think in a case like Schilling, it definitely matters and looking it up, this is his sixth combat sports KO loss. If a guy has that many KOs in MMA, we're on here begging for him to retire. Cro Cop was only KO'd twice before he peaked in MMA, Hunt about the same, and they had more substantial MMA runs after their kickboxing careers. I think in some cases it is as simple as that.

As for anything technically speaking, no idea.

REDDzone · Post #1176 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:56 am

SDM wrote:It's hard to find a guy in kickboxing-then-MMA that hasn't had fewer than 50 fights and/or hasn't been knocked out a half dozen times. I think in a case like Schilling, it definitely matters and looking it up, this is his sixth combat sports KO loss. If a guy has that many KOs in MMA, we're on here begging for him to retire. Cro Cop was only KO'd twice before he peaked in MMA, Hunt about the same, and they had more substantial MMA runs after their kickboxing careers. I think in some cases it is as simple as that.

As for anything technically speaking, no idea.

You may be right in general but look at this specific instance. The dude got hit with a huge shot, prime Dan Henderson would have probably been KOed by that. I don't think it was a shot chin issue here.

SDM · Post #1177 » by **SDM** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:58 am

REDDzone wrote:
SDM wrote:It's hard to find a guy in kickboxing-then-MMA that hasn't had fewer than 50 fights and/or hasn't been knocked out a half dozen times. I think in a case like Schilling, it definitely matters and looking it up, this is his sixth combat sports KO loss. If a guy has that many KOs in MMA, we're on here begging for him to retire. Cro Cop was only KO'd twice before he peaked in MMA, Hunt about the same, and they had more substantial MMA runs after their kickboxing careers. I think in some cases it is as simple as that.

As for anything technically speaking, no idea.

You may be right in general but look at this specific instance. The dude got hit with a huge shot, prime Dan Henderson would have probably been KOed by that. I don't think it was a shot chin issue here.

Not to compare this dude to Melvin, but it reminded me of Hunt getting KTFO'd by running into a power strike with no guard. When you hear of Schilling's background, it's surprising to see him get caught like that.

It's a different type of trauma compared to bjj, you get caught in an armbar, you're going to be better prepared mentally to escape in the future, even if you snap it. It'll make you better. KTFO'd six times is KTFO'd six times and if a fighter is the type to overthink, then it becomes a shot chin issue.

Jasen777 · Post #1178 » by **Jasen777** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:04 am

Kato was talking about how he was a small glove fighter. Seems like that would make some difference for kickboxers transitioning to MMA.

REDDzone · Post #1179 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:05 am

SDM wrote:Not to compare this dude to Melvin, but it reminded me of Hunt getting KTFO'd by running into a power strike with no guard. When you hear of Schilling's background, it's surprising to see him get caught like that.

It's a different type of trauma compared to bjj, you get caught in an armbar, you're going to be better prepared mentally to escape in the future, even if you snap it. It'll make you better. KTFO'd six times is KTFO'd six times.

That's the thing though, why would a guy of Hunt or Schilling's experience run into a power strike with no guard? Maybe its just the nature of the games...I hate calling it a fluke but maybe there is just more chance of a fluky strike landing and finishing a fight...whereas there really isn't such a thing as a "fluke armbar" "fluke rear naked" lol.

REDDzone · Post #1180 » by **REDDzone** » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:07 am

Jasen777 wrote:Kato was talking about how he was a small glove fighter. Seems like that would make some difference for kickboxers transitioning to MMA.

Again...maybe in general. But it had nothing to do with last night. Joe could have had 48 ounce gloves on and that punch was still KTFO him. His hands were spread out to the sides.