UFC Oversaturation?

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Has UFC oversaturation diminished your interest in the sport?

Yes
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83%
No
4
17%
 
Total votes: 23

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UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#1 » by CPT » Tue Mar 4, 2014 3:54 am

This is something that has come up in several threads, and in the middle of a slow period (more on that later), it seems like a good time to discuss it.

In the past year or so, I've found my interest in UFC events (and, by extension, MMA in general) to be waning. Most of my friends feel the same way, even those who are/were hardcore fans. Casual fans may not even know about this oversaturation.

Right now, we're in the middle of the busiest schedule I can remember the UFC having. Since Since Silva vs. Weidman II, there has only been a two week gap between events once, between Barao/Faber and Machida/Mousasi. There won't be another one until after Shogun/Henderson II on March 23, with the next event coming April 11, in the form of Big Nog/Nelson. That's 10 events in the first quarter of 2014. Compare that to 7 in each of the last four years. There are already 8 announced for the 2nd quarter of this year.

Some people may see this as great news, especially with no many of the events coming for free (though more are finding their way to the Fight Pass subscription service).

However, others (like myself) are finding all of these events a little tough to keep up with, and not very interesting. Maybe it has to do with the way we consume the sport. I like the anticipation and discussion leading up to an event as much as the event itself. Yet these days, even for the big cards, there's no time to get excited, because the previous event just wrapped up, and there's another event the following week.

You also never get a truly stacked card anymore. You get a legit PPV main event one week, a nice co-main headlining a Fox event the following week, and a fight that should be third or fourth from the top on Fight Pass a few days later at 6AM or 2PM or whatever.

Look at this board. There's an event every week, but it seems like nothing is going on. Event threads that barely hit two pages. Threads made for events two days before they happen, when it used to be two months or more.

Sorry for the poorly organized rant, just wanted to get out some thoughts on the subject and see what others have to say in a thread dedicated to the issue.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#2 » by Cammo101 » Tue Mar 4, 2014 3:59 am

Has it diminished my interest? Maybe slightly.
Does it have that effect on less hardcore fans? I think so.

The UFC seems to be in a transitional situation right now and they need to better figure out their plans here. IMO they should cut back to 4 PPV cards a year. These would be the monster stadium show types with can't miss stacked cards. Then do 6 Fox cards a year that are really good as well, but not quite as great. Then do however many more cards spread out over Fox Sports 1 and Fight Pass as you want.

The problem as I see it is less that there are too many cards, and more that there is not a distinct difference in card quality. When the stuff you put on FS1 is close to PPV quality, don't be surprised if people are less interested in paying for PPVs. There needs to be clear distinct level differences in the kinds of cards. The WWE is great at this. PPVs are stacked, Raws are really good, their other stuff is pretty meh.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#3 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:20 am

I've never cared less, personally, and it coincides perfectly with this oversaturation. The timing of this thread is funny, because I was just thinking about this today. I used to not miss a card. Hell, I used to not miss a fight on a card unless it was whichever fight was taking place during my drive to the bar to watch the ppv. Now I don't bother watching prelims unless its a big ppv and I'm killing time before meeting my buddies to watch. I don't care about any fight pass cards. Most of the time I don't care about anything except for the main event (e.g., Machida vs Mousasi).

I feel like 4-6 years ago I used to watch every event plus other big promotions (strikeforce, bellator) plus the random tachi palace events, etc. Now I feel like I can't even follow all the ufcs, much less other mma. There was a point when being a "ufc fighter" meant something and I feel like I knew the prelim guys, not anymore. Now it just means you are probably one of the top 1000 fighters in the country/world who hasn't pissed off Daddy Dana. :)

The irony here is that I used to think I wanted more mma and thought to myself if people don't like it, they should just not watch. But the repercussions of this many events and the deterioration of the overall average card quality has been a lot stronger than I thought.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#4 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:37 am

And the other thing is how expensive it is to keep up with the ufc now if you watch legitimately. $65 per ppv monthly plus $10 for fight pass is already $75/month for the one (usually watered down) ppv plus the crappy international fight pass cards. That is obviously without even getting into the extended cable subscription for fs1 and fs2 cards. Obviously fox is "free" which is nice at least.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#5 » by cowboyronnie » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:51 am

This has got to be felt by casual fans. A "UFC tonight?" used to mean a big event, a clash of titans. The more these people tune in to the UFCs and don't recognize the fighters (Jimmy Manuwa?), the less they will tune in period. You'd have to think.

I'm bummed there's less traffic on here but still don't ever miss a main card, I've always skipped-through and fast-forwarded a lot of fights anyways.

Don't forgot a huge part of the business has to be the live gates, which are less likely to suffer from oversaturation. Toronto being a definite exception.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#6 » by Jasen777 » Tue Mar 4, 2014 5:33 am

This forum has a small set of regular posters, you probably can't project a downturn in activity here to a lack of interest in MMA overall.

That being said my interest has declined, but it could be other factors than oversaturation, though that has probably played a part.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#7 » by blkout » Tue Mar 4, 2014 8:09 am

I find myself getting bored a lot easier with the fights now. It's like I've seen everything and so many of the fighters now all fight alike. I feel like the emergence of MMA and the fact that people are now training in MMA from the start rather than coming in with a pre-existing skill is killing off any originality in the fights and the fighters style. That mostly exists in the prelims though, the main cards are still doing ok since none of those clones are good enough to string together enough wins to get a main card fight.

I said it on here during Brock's run, I love guys who are completely dominant at one thing. It's why I was such a big fan of Vinny Magalhaes before he decided he was fighting in K-1. I'd rather see a guy who is great at something and average/poor at everything else than guys who are good at everything but great at nothing. It's more exciting to me. G-Sot was a good one, not just because he was Australian but because his stand-up was so **** but you knew if the fight hit the ground he'd win. I like that sort of thing.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#8 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 2:07 pm

Jasen777 wrote:This forum has a small set of regular posters, you probably can't project a downturn in activity here to a lack of interest in MMA overall.

That being said my interest has declined, but it could be other factors than oversaturation, though that has probably played a part.


Isn't it true that the overall trend of ufc ppv buys, etc. is trending downward? I definitely feel that there are repurcussions of this oversaturation that are worse than just me being more bored at work because nobody posts here anymore. :D
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#9 » by SDM » Tue Mar 4, 2014 2:56 pm

Agree with a number of the points made.

I just don't respect the brass at Zuffa. The lack of integrity they have has rubbed off on a number of fighters and the business as a whole, particularly in the last couple years. Any industry with f'n Zuffa at the top of it, the industry leader, the one that's supposed to test the market for reform, deserves better. These guys are self-promoters who got in at the right time. The more time passes, the more it looks like sheer luck that the company hasn't imploded yet. Dana's only opportunity to be a spokesperson for *anything* is naturally "human cockfighting". Just a bad pair that will always limit the company's growth. Zuffa needs someone credible. But they think they're the credible ones, so, LOL.

It IS too expensive to watch legally from your home, while bars with giant screens are douchebro'd up... I can't think of an arrangement that would turn off more casual watchers than being forced to go to a crappy chain sports bar to buy $7 beers while being surrounded by yo bro you look at my girl bro. The other alternative... giving hundreds to UFC per month with no guarantee of worthwhile entertainment/finishes/title advancement/career progression/anything, since it's reality programming essentially and a sport in name only... isn't going to convert the uninitiated or keep people like me interested. I hate alcohol culture/the brutish attitudes many MMA fans project and rampant corporate greed equally. I'd rather do nothing than support either.

Not to do this again, but look at what WWE did with the network. UFC is at the same crossroads, but it's going against the Internet, which is, for lack of a better term, "not cool", and sets you up for backlash by communities of people who are sick and tired of corporations tinkering with it. And they move faster than web legislation done by pen and paper and committee meeting... so why would you want to piss these people off? Work with them, like WWE did, you pompous sacks. Zuffa refuses to look at how things are done internally, and I don't blame them because their bodily waste doesn't stink, but the cultured, pragmatic, intelligent business minds at WWE realized they had to, and they did. WWE revamped their PPV system to take buys out of the equation and re-attract old fans with access to their back catalog. I haven't spent a penny on WWE products for almost 20 years, but I am now. How many of us would buy Fight Pass at $10 a month with PPVs included, as well as most, if not all, prior Pride, UFC, WEC, Strikeforce cards? Every one of us, I would imagine, would just light up and this thread articulating our concerns would hit the second page and disappear forever. Gold Chain would come back to talk about Fight Pass.

And simply, too many fights, not enough high stakes for 95% of them since they've abandoned the rating system as it pertains to contenders, careers don't progress linearly and fighters often aren't put in that spot with weight class hopping usually positioned by Dana and/or Joe, and too many freaking avenues to watch the programming, with no set schedule in place. It requires upkeep to be a fan and it should be natural. And the only reason for the upkeep is because MMA in North America is run by a team that has no f'n clue how to think beyond the next event.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#10 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 3:23 pm

blkout wrote:I find myself getting bored a lot easier with the fights now. It's like I've seen everything and so many of the fighters now all fight alike. I feel like the emergence of MMA and the fact that people are now training in MMA from the start rather than coming in with a pre-existing skill is killing off any originality in the fights and the fighters style. That mostly exists in the prelims though, the main cards are still doing ok since none of those clones are good enough to string together enough wins to get a main card fight.

I said it on here during Brock's run, I love guys who are completely dominant at one thing. It's why I was such a big fan of Vinny Magalhaes before he decided he was fighting in K-1. I'd rather see a guy who is great at something and average/poor at everything else than guys who are good at everything but great at nothing. It's more exciting to me. G-Sot was a good one, not just because he was Australian but because his stand-up was so **** but you knew if the fight hit the ground he'd win. I like that sort of thing.


Its impossible for this to be a thing anymore. I was reading the book 'fightnomics' a few weeks back, its pretty good stuff for hardcore fans btw, but one of the trends in the ufc lately is the ground game is going by the wayside. Submissions are declining, time spent on the ground is declining rapidly every year, and there are a lot of factors as to why. The broes at the bar boo if guys go to the ground, Dana criticizes fighters and will even cut you in some cases if you don't stand and bang, and on the flip side you could lose 10 straight and still have a job a la Leonard Garcia if you just bang. Even refs who grapple themselves will stand you up in 4 seconds if the idiots in the crowd boo loud enough, and its not always from guard either. Just last event we had a ref standup from a guy in the middle of a pass, literally. We've seen ref standups from side control, mount. The recent elimination of "submission of the night" bonus will end up feeding into this trend.

MMA will end up being third rate boxing when its all said and done, which is probably why I've been more into Glory than anything lately. If I'm going to be watching standup fights, I may as well be watching guys who know what the hell they are doing instead of just the "boxer wrestlers" that BJ so aptly described which is the style of every other fighter now. The days of "grappler vs striker" are numbered.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#11 » by Headliner » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:15 pm

I just asked this in the other thread, but got my answer here.
They really need to go the WWE model. I don't give my money to the UFC. If they offered a fightpass for 9.99 a month with PPVs included, I would buy the year pass, happily.
The UFC is just so ass backwards about it, for all the reasons SDM pointed out.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#12 » by Cammo101 » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:44 pm

Headliner wrote:I just asked this in the other thread, but got my answer here.
They really need to go the WWE model. I don't give my money to the UFC. If they offered a fightpass for 9.99 a month with PPVs included, I would buy the year pass, happily.
The UFC is just so ass backwards about it, for all the reasons SDM pointed out.


I think the UFC needs the PPVs to turn a profit at this juncture in a way that the WWE does not because of their lucrative TV deals, crazy merchandise money, and also their ability to put on dark shows 4 nights a week. Because of this it is a lot easier for the WWE to just eat PPV costs to make this transition.

But, the PPV model is dying, so they need to put on less of them and make them monster and maybe eventually phase out of them once their TV deals can sustain it.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#13 » by cowboyronnie » Tue Mar 4, 2014 4:55 pm

WWE offers all their content for $9.99/month?
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#14 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 5:13 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:WWE offers all their content for $9.99/month?


Yessir.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#15 » by cowboyronnie » Tue Mar 4, 2014 6:48 pm

I can't imagine that's sustainable.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#16 » by singh_shady » Tue Mar 4, 2014 7:07 pm

cowboyronnie wrote:I can't imagine that's sustainable.


Netflix just posted massive profits and from Q4 2012 and their total revenue went up something like 25%. If Netflix can make it work with the Telecom/Mass media companies breathing down their neck, I'm sure the UFC and WWE could have successful subscription services offering their mostly in-house productions.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#17 » by Cammo101 » Tue Mar 4, 2014 7:13 pm

singh_shady wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:I can't imagine that's sustainable.


Netflix just posted massive profits and from Q4 2012 and their total revenue went up something like 25%. If Netflix can make it work with the Telecom/Mass media companies breathing down their neck, I'm sure the UFC and WWE could have successful subscription services offering their mostly in-house productions.


As I said earlier, it seems much easier for the WWE to sustain than it would be for the UFC. The WWE still has their big Raw and Smackdown TV deals, a ton of merchandising, and also 4 or so dark house shows a week. I can see them being able to sustain something like this, but for the UFC it would be tricky.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#18 » by singh_shady » Tue Mar 4, 2014 7:31 pm

For me the anticipation and excitement leading up to the cards is completely gone. I don't know who's fighting or when they're fighting anymore. I still browse the event threads every now and then because there are good posters here and it's a way to keep up, but I normally have nothing to add since I don't end up watching the fights until days after they occur.

If I do end up watching an event live now, it's usually alone and on my laptop. None of my friends or family really care about the UFC anymore, aside from when Anderson or GSP is fighting. If Zuffa doesn't think they have a potential problem here they will eventually get kicked in the ass. This is still a young sport, there are no guarantees the general public will give a sh*t about MMA 10+ years from now.

The niche demographic is what carried the sport to this point. Now those first/second wave pioneers and personalities are retiring and I don't sense that the same enthusiasm is there for where MMA is heading. The talent is definitely there but it's up to Zuffa to present it in a manner that's easy for the masses to consume.. and imo Zuffa sh*tting out these weak cards like they have the runs or serving up a new 'contender' for Rousey to arm bar every few months isn't going to cut it.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#19 » by REDDzone » Tue Mar 4, 2014 7:33 pm

Cammo101 wrote:As I said earlier, it seems much easier for the WWE to sustain than it would be for the UFC. The WWE still has their big Raw and Smackdown TV deals, a ton of merchandising, and also 4 or so dark house shows a week. I can see them being able to sustain something like this, but for the UFC it would be tricky.


The problem is, imo, that the ufc's current model is going to be tricky to maintain. They are spread so thin and its only getting worse. We have guys like John Hathaway headlining cards. No offense to him at all, I remember he beat up the fattest version of Diego Sanchez once a few years ago. I don't think I could tell you one thing he's done since then before this Kim fight, and I've been a hardcore fan.
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Re: UFC Oversaturation? 

Post#20 » by singh_shady » Tue Mar 4, 2014 7:42 pm

Cammo101 wrote:
singh_shady wrote:
cowboyronnie wrote:I can't imagine that's sustainable.


Netflix just posted massive profits and from Q4 2012 and their total revenue went up something like 25%. If Netflix can make it work with the Telecom/Mass media companies breathing down their neck, I'm sure the UFC and WWE could have successful subscription services offering their mostly in-house productions.


As I said earlier, it seems much easier for the WWE to sustain than it would be for the UFC. The WWE still has their big Raw and Smackdown TV deals, a ton of merchandising, and also 4 or so dark house shows a week. I can see them being able to sustain something like this, but for the UFC it would be tricky.


Zuffa has money from their TV deals as well. They could probably find ways to offer enough content for a subscription service without stretching these cards so thin: Offer the back catalogue for all the prior UFC/Pride events. Produce in-house documentaries and special features. Hire some media personalities for weekly round-table discussion programming, something like what Helwani does with the MMA Hour or MMA Beat. Show the international TUFs, etc, etc.

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