UFC 178 (9/27): Johnson vs. Cariaso (Jones/DC off)

Post #281 » by **CPT** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:11 am

That Kennedy-Romero gif is interesting. Did not notice that live. An illegal maneuver led to his only meaningful offense of the fight. I really don't think it matters, but I'm probably blinded by my dislike for Kennedy.

Going forward though, what should be done in that situation. Taking a point may be appropriate, but that actually buys him more time.

I would feel much worse about the result if they had just called it on the stool. I feel like that would be more unjust. But, again, I don't like Kennedy, and don't particularly want to see him in higher profile fights than he's already in.

Regarding the existence of round breaks in general, I agree that they are an artificial addition to a fight, but I stopped seeing MMA as a legalized street fight a long time ago. As part of an MMA contest, I'm alright with them. I think overall they lead to a better product.

Post #282 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:26 am

My god is Conor McGregor charisma off the roof. I could listen to the guy talk all day. He's like Chael P except he doesn't have a writing team behind him passing him notes. The guy just talks a great game and it's amazingly refreshing to have guy on stage who you actually want to listen to.

REDDzone · Post #283 » by **REDDzone** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:19 pm

CPT wrote:Going forward though, what should be done in that situation. Taking a point may be appropriate, but that actually buys him more time.

TKO loss imo. That's how its always been done and personally I think it makes sense.

lilfishi22 wrote:My god is Conor McGregor charisma off the roof. I could listen to the guy talk all day. He's like Chael P except he doesn't have a writing team behind him passing him notes. The guy just talks a great game and it's amazingly refreshing to have guy on stage who you actually want to listen to.

If you haven't heard it I recommend everyone listen to his first mmahour interview. I believe I posted about it on here at the time. Just priceless.

Post #284 » by **spykelee** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:45 pm

Robin Black is an amazing analyst. I love his insights and knowledge, as well as his delivery and on camera presence. Great find on that GIF.

REDDzone · Post #285 » by **REDDzone** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:47 pm

Conor was awarded his bjj brown belt this weekend.

Post #286 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:49 pm

REDDzone wrote:Conor was awarded his bjj brown belt this weekend.

he was wearing it during the official decision right?
i figured that was significant

cowboyronnie · Post #287 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:20 pm

An Anchorman moment when Goldberg recited the copy about Alvarez winning 3 national championships and going to college in WV. Did he know that little about EA? Or not listen to himself?

REDDzone · Post #288 » by **REDDzone** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:46 pm

Shaazzam wrote:
REDDzone wrote:Conor was awarded his bjj brown belt this weekend.

he was wearing it during the official decision right?
i figured that was significant

I fast forwarded as soon as the fight was over but I'm guessing his coach tied it on him after the fight.

Post #289 » by **Shaazzam** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:37 pm

REDDzone wrote:
Shaazzam wrote:
REDDzone wrote:Conor was awarded his bjj brown belt this weekend.

he was wearing it during the official decision right?
i figured that was significant

I fast forwarded as soon as the fight was over but I'm guessing his coach tied it on him after the fight.

yeah, that was my assumption too

Bernman · Post #290 » by **Bernman** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:45 pm

REDDzone wrote:TKO loss imo. That's how its always been done and personally I think it makes sense.

You can't just go around ending fights in favor of one guy on a whim. Big John McCarthy loves the power and attention more than anybody, but he didn't do it in that situation. That should speak volumes.

The excess petroleum jelly might cause a loophole, but so be it, because it's used generously to treat cuts. If you think it's egregious and blatant, then take off a point. That's the max you can do because it's just like any other foul during a fight, some which buy you more recovery time than 19 seconds (that's what this actually was in totality as somebody did the research on Sherdog).

After that a ref just can't say get up, and if you don't immediately then you're ruled tko'ed or dq'ed. Fighters need to clearly know what is required of them and the ramifications if they don't obey it. You need a count like in boxing (although maybe 5-7 seconds in this case) when a guy is remaining on the ground or something to that effect, with hand signals like in basketball so as to cater to the many fighters who don't know English. Then if they don't get up it's on them. They can be ruled d.q.'ed or tko'ed. But as a fighter you wouldn't want your fate determined so arbitrarily as to lose because you got up too slow. You have to define what's too slow before you start punishing people.

REDDzone · Post #291 » by **REDDzone** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:55 pm

Bernman wrote:After that a ref just can't say get up, and if you don't immediately then you're ruled tko'ed or dq'ed. Fighters need to clearly know what is required of them and the ramifications if they don't obey it.

Fighters do know this. If you can't answer the bell then its a TKO, it always has been as far as I'm aware, in both boxing and mma.

You need a count like in boxing (although maybe 5-7 seconds in this case) when a guy is remaining on the ground or something to that effect, with hand signals like in basketball so as to cater to the many fighters who don't know English. Then if they don't get up it's on them. They can be ruled d.q.'ed or tko'ed. But as a fighter you wouldn't want your fate determined so arbitrarily as to lose because you got up too slow. You have to define what's too slow before you start punishing people.

Its only as arbitrary as a TKO is arbitrary, because that's exactly what we are talking about here. If a ref or commission member is telling you to stand up, and you are unable to do so, I don't get how that isn't a TKO.

Bernman · Post #292 » by **Bernman** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:07 pm

REDDzone wrote:Fighters do know this. If you can't answer the bell then its a TKO, it always has been as far as I'm aware, in both boxing and mma.

Its only as arbitrary as a TKO is arbitrary, because that's exactly what we are talking about here. If a ref or commission member is telling you to stand up, and you are unable to do so, I don't get how that isn't a TKO.

He didn't have to answer the bell in this situation because of Vaseline-gate. So far all intents and purposes, answering the bell doesn't apply here.

After that it's up to the ref to instruct a fighter when to get up, and to fairly do so they need to give him an amount of time he has until it's required. "Get up, no that was subjectively/arbitrarily too slow, you're tko'ed", is not black and white enough. It opens up fighters to all sorts of ref mismanagement and abuse. It's bad enough when that costs a fighter a point, now you want it to potentially cost them a win.

I think the count should apply to answering the bell too. Because without two bells it's an ambiguous expectation. Fighters aren't getting up before the bell, so after it, what's too late? It's not defined as far as I know, and until then it's not grounds for refs being sticklers.

cowboyronnie · Post #293 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:43 pm

Bernman wrote:
REDDzone wrote:TKO loss imo. That's how its always been done and personally I think it makes sense.

You can't just go around ending fights in favor of one guy on a whim. Big John McCarthy loves the power and attention more than anybody, but he didn't do it in that situation. That should speak volumes.

The excess petroleum jelly might cause a loophole, but so be it, because it's used generously to treat cuts. If you think it's egregious and blatant, then take off a point. That's the max you can do because it's just like any other foul during a fight, some which buy you more recovery time than 19 seconds (that's what this actually was in totality as somebody did the research on Sherdog).

After that a ref just can't say get up, and if you don't immediately then you're ruled tko'ed or dq'ed. Fighters need to clearly know what is required of them and the ramifications if they don't obey it. You need a count like in boxing (although maybe 5-7 seconds in this case) when a guy is remaining on the ground or something to that effect, with hand signals like in basketball so as to cater to the many fighters who don't know English. Then if they don't get up it's on them. They can be ruled d.q.'ed or tko'ed. But as a fighter you wouldn't want your fate determined so arbitrarily as to lose because you got up too slow. You have to define what's too slow before you start punishing people.

Why they're slow is the issue. Romero is a ball of fast-twitch muscle and honed reflexes. Someone says stand-up, and he wants to stand-up, he's on his feet faster than anyone on the planet.

He knowingly lagged cos he wanted "more wind".

That's not arbitrary.

I agree that maybe there should be official protocol. I'm most unhappy that cornerman in the yellow toque isn't under fire from the UFC or commission. He, right from the "seconds out", delayed things. And was probably the guy Romero seemed to imply had told him to stay sitting. Yellow toque is being shoved out of the ring by the commission dude even before the camera cuts to the ring girls, but he resists, then he 'forgets' the stool, then he delays things as Romero continues to sit.

cowboyronnie · Post #294 » by **cowboyronnie** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:45 pm

Maybe the time we see this issue most often is actually when moutpieces are spit out. And the cornerman comes over and deliberately fumbles and asks for clarification and so on. An overall quantified rule on this makes sense.

Post #295 » by **blkout** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:56 pm

That was an awesome card, almost forgot how great the sport can be. Now looking forward to UFC Tibet with Sun Chang Bang Wok vs Li No.

Bernman · Post #296 » by **Bernman** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:15 am

It hasn't been talked about yet because it was a relatively irrelevant fight for the card, but IMO that Ebersole-Doomsday decision was horrible. That was some Jake Shields vs. Tyron Woodley/Akiyama type scoring and match-up. Ebersole's strikes were doing absolutely nothing and he was just holding Doomsday up against the cage for periods to look like he was in control and gas a muscly opponent. Then surrounding he'd take a full power strike here and there that Doomsday still had energy for. Doomsday didn't do a lot, but it was much more than nothing, which is what Ebersole did for 2 rounds.

On the note about his style, why has Ebersole become such a boring, impotent fighter? Early on in his UFC career he was cartwheel kicking and smashing fools on the ground. But in his last several fights he's tried to win via volume, control, and Jackson-esque gameplanning. It's sad. Either he's gone soft or the injuries have taken their toll. It might be close to retirement time.

Post #297 » by **lilfishi22** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:31 am

spykelee wrote:Robin Black is an amazing analyst. I love his insights and knowledge, as well as his delivery and on camera presence. Great find on that GIF.

Is he the same former glam rocker turned MMA fighter Robin Black? Or are they different dudes?

But yeah, watched a few of his break down videos and they are insightful.

Post #298 » by **CPT** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:38 am

I honestly didn't pay that much attention to the fight, mainly because Ebersole has become such a boring fighter. I figured it would be a lock for Doomsday, and I thought it was close, but ultimately didn't care enough to make a stink about it. I'd have been cool with a draw, because I felt like nothing happened. Again, didn't watch that intently.

Bernman · Post #299 » by **Bernman** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:54 am

I can't blame ya. I'd be extremely mad at that decision as a promoter because it meant I couldn't release Ebersole like I preferred to.

I don't know if Robin Black was a glam rocker. He has that appearance though. I agree he is the s**t as an analyst. He's very on point with his commentary, and from a few brief interactions with him I've had a gentleman.

Post #300 » by **spykelee** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:04 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
spykelee wrote:Robin Black is an amazing analyst. I love his insights and knowledge, as well as his delivery and on camera presence. Great find on that GIF.

Is he the same former glam rocker turned MMA fighter Robin Black? Or are they different dudes?

But yeah, watched a few of his break down videos and they are insightful.

That is him, yes.

Robin Black is a Canadian glam rock band, originally known as Robin Black and the Intergalactic Rock Stars

Frontman Robin also made an appearance on Showcase's TV series KinK. Black was also a judge on the 2006 Much Music VJ Search. He holds a second degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Robin also won the 2008 Naga world championships. He now trains at Xtreme Couture in Toronto alongside with other fighters such as Mark Hominick, Mark Bocek, and Rob Di Censo.