UFC 182 (1/3): Jones vs Cormier (Las Vegas,PPV)....

[Jasen777]

However- twice last night, he mentioned that if he dug deep- he could make 185. I find that hard to believe, but maybe Jones is saying that to deflect from the HW talk.

Well Rumble did actually make WW sometimes, so I wouldn't count that out though I'd assume it'd have bad health consequences.

[Jasen777]

I think end of the third, DC was done. Maybe even broken.

I think he didn't have the gas to fight Jones for 5 rounds (that's the area where Cain could do better).

But I did find it strange that Cormier kept going for takedowns even with less than 30 seconds left, when he clearly needed a finish.

[Cammo101]

I think end of the third, DC was done. Maybe even broken.

I think he didn't have the gas to fight Jones for 5 rounds (that's the area where Cain could do better).

But I did find it strange that Cormier kept going for takedowns even with less than 30 seconds left, when he clearly needed a finish.

When gassed or hurt, guys tend to revert back to what they know. And with DC, that is wrestling.

[High 5]

I think like Joe or Goldy said, he was just trying to a score a takedown for pride at that point. He knew he wasn't going to miraculously finish Jones.

[Headliner]

(Sorry, writing this quick and on the fly, if it doesn't make sense oh well..)

I still think DC would have been way better off to fight Gus or someone top tier at 205 in a 5 round mainevent, just to get accustomed to the division at a high level better before going at Jones. Fighting at HW and 205 has to be very different mentally and physically, something that a lot of us will never understand fully.

This thread has had a lot of 'switch weight division' talk, which I always get frustrated with. It's easy to say Jones walks around at 225 so he can fight heavyweight etc, but that's walk around weight and not necessarily fight ready weight. GSP was another guy who everyone pushed to go up a class to fight Silva, and GSP responded with it would be easier to go down to 155 than it would be to bulk properly and condition himself for 185. He'd have to take a long time off and train accordingly to do so. Switching weight classes is more difficult than it seems. Some guys do it seamlessly, but for the most part they are not jumping into the deep end and fighting for a title, or a GOAT candidate like GSP would have had to fight in Silva, or Silva for Jones or Jones for Cain (to a lesser degree)
In order for Jones to move up, he would need to take a lot of time off in order to bulk properly and then work into the proper conditioning that he would want for his style. Fighting has evolved, it's not two dudes going at it, it's two athletes training for styles, and altering their bodies to succeed at specific levels.

In regards to DC, he was able to abuse heavyweight because of his speed, power and wrestling. Those things get hampered when you are fighting faster guys at 205, and your power dips from it's HW potential. Dropping weight and never testing the deep waters of rounds 4/5 was a mistake. His cardio failed him, and he didn't have the tank to keep going. His tank would have been fine at heavyweight but at 205 it's a different level of conditioning...just like 185, 170, 155 etc are.

[Cammo101]

His cardio definitely failed him late, but he was losing the fight already and a good portion of that is that Jones was forcing DC to carry his weight due to showing a superior clinch game.

DC certainly could have used a grind of a fight at 205 before getting to Jones, but DC wasn't getting any younger and everyone involved wanted to see this fight ASAP.

[Bernman]

Jones' cage weight is like 225. I've seen 220's referenced before. His walkaround was 230 a couple years ago even, and he's gotten discernibly bigger as people typically do in their older age. He's not skinny anymore, and there's plenty of width, height, and length to distribute that weight over. For him to claim he can make 185, or flirt with the idea, over hw, is silly. GSP I could have seen moving down even given he was only 5'10". I certainly was never one to call for him to fight Anderson Silva. That was a joke given their frame differential. But it's hardly a joke to suggest maybe Jones should go up for the challenge of facing a good heavyweight. I for one never even suggested Cain. I came up with the idea of him fighting guys like JDS, Werdum, and Browne. And it's not an expectation of mine that he does it. Just that if he wants to fast track legit GOAT status, that's something he has to do in my eyes to eclipse Silva, because he did it himself. Otherwise he can just take the longer route in his original weight class and get a few more marquee wins under his belt, or not have GOAT aspirations period even. That's his choice.

[Cammo101]

Jones' cage weight is like 225. I've seen 220's referenced before. His walkaround was 230 a couple years ago even, and he's gotten discernibly bigger as people typically do in their older age. He's not skinny anymore, and there's plenty of width, height, and length to distribute that weight over. For him to claim he can make 185, or flirt with the idea, over hw, is silly. GSP I could have seen moving down even given he was only 5'10". I certainly was never one to call for him to fight Anderson Silva. That was a joke given their frame differential. But it's hardly a joke to suggest maybe Jones should go up for the challenge of facing a good heavyweight. I for one never even suggested Cain. I came up with the idea of him fighting guys like JDS, Werdum, and Browne. And it's not an expectation of mine that he does it. Just that if he wants to fast track legit GOAT status, that's something he has to do in my eyes to eclipse Silva, because he did it himself. Otherwise he can just take the longer route in his original weight class and get a few more marquee wins under his belt, or not have GOAT aspirations period even. That's his choice.

Silva moved up to fight Irvin, Bonnar, and an aging Forrest. He didn't exactly move up to 205 and challenge himself against the best. I don't think Silva's time at 205 did much of anything for his legacy.

[NZB2323]

Jones' cage weight is like 225. I've seen 220's referenced before. His walkaround was 230 a couple years ago even, and he's gotten discernibly bigger as people typically do in their older age. He's not skinny anymore, and there's plenty of width, height, and length to distribute that weight over. For him to claim he can make 185, or flirt with the idea, over hw, is silly. GSP I could have seen moving down even given he was only 5'10". I certainly was never one to call for him to fight Anderson Silva. That was a joke given their frame differential. But it's hardly a joke to suggest maybe Jones should go up for the challenge of facing a good heavyweight. I for one never even suggested Cain. I came up with the idea of him fighting guys like JDS, Werdum, and Browne. And it's not an expectation of mine that he does it. Just that if he wants to fast track legit GOAT status, that's something he has to do in my eyes to eclipse Silva, because he did it himself. Otherwise he can just take the longer route in his original weight class and get a few more marquee wins under his belt, or not have GOAT aspirations period even. That's his choice.

Silva moved up to fight Irvin, Bonnar, and an aging Forrest. He didn't exactly move up to 205 and challenge himself against the best. I don't think Silva's time at 205 did much of anything for his legacy.

Forrest lost his LHW belt in the fight before Silva, and he used roids for the fight. I guess he also took Ambien before the fight, so it's hard to judge, but Silva's performance in that fight definitely adds to his "Matrix" legacy. But Silva fighting at 205 doesn't add to his legacy the way BJ, Hendo, Couture, Edgar, and Mighty Mouse fighting at a bigger weight class.

[Bernman]

Silva moved up to fight Irvin, Bonnar, and an aging Forrest. He didn't exactly move up to 205 and challenge himself against the best. I don't think Silva's time at 205 did much of anything for his legacy.

Forrest had just been supplanted as 205 lb champion and Andy clowned him. Rest assured, that did something for his legacy. It was one of the standout fights of his career.

A step up against an interim champ ala Werdum, or Browne, or JDS; would be comparable, and have a similar effect resonating w/ the public if he was a resounding success in the match like the Spider. It doesn't have to be a long-term move. But that s**t always moves the public, and understandably so. Penn was a double-weight champ, moving up a class temporarily, and look how much extra credit he gets in the LW or all-time GOAT rankings for that.

[Headliner]

His cardio definitely failed him late, but he was losing the fight already and a good portion of that is that Jones was forcing DC to carry his weight due to showing a superior clinch game.

DC certainly could have used a grind of a fight at 205 before getting to Jones, but DC wasn't getting any younger and everyone involved wanted to see this fight ASAP.

His cardio failed him 4/5 early he looked great. Round 2 he won and looked spectacular. Round 3 was very even. Round 4 he came out gassed and never threw a thing. He definitley wasn't losing the fight by the start of the 4th. I had it 1-1-1 so it was a nail biter.

I understand why they did the fight, I just meant it would have been better for him had he.

[Cammo101]

His cardio definitely failed him late, but he was losing the fight already and a good portion of that is that Jones was forcing DC to carry his weight due to showing a superior clinch game.

DC certainly could have used a grind of a fight at 205 before getting to Jones, but DC wasn't getting any younger and everyone involved wanted to see this fight ASAP.

His cardio failed him 4/5 early he looked great. Round 2 he won and looked spectacular. Round 3 was very even. Round 4 he came out gassed and never threw a thing. He definitley wasn't losing the fight by the start of the 4th. I had it 1-1-1 so it was a nail biter.

I understand why they did the fight, I just meant it would have been better for him had he.

Round 3, while not a complete wipeout, was a pretty obvious Jones round. Almost everyone scored that round for him. DC was clearly down 2 rounds to 1 going into the 4th and his prospects were not looking promising, even before he fully gassed. IMO the later part of the 3rd was where Jones really started to wrestle the fight away from DC.

[Cammo101]

Silva moved up to fight Irvin, Bonnar, and an aging Forrest. He didn't exactly move up to 205 and challenge himself against the best. I don't think Silva's time at 205 did much of anything for his legacy.

Forrest had just been supplanted as 205 lb champion and Andy clowned him. Rest assured, that did something for his legacy. It was one of the standout fights of his career.

A step up against an interim champ ala Werdum, or Browne, or JDS; would be comparable, and have a similar effect resonating w/ the public if he was a resounding success in the match like the Spider. It doesn't have to be a long-term move. But that s**t always moves the public, and understandably so. Penn was a double-weight champ, moving up a class temporarily, and look how much extra credit he gets in the LW or all-time GOAT rankings for that.

I'd argue that what Silva gained from that Forrest fight had nothing to do with the weight class he was fighting in. Had he clowned someone like Marquardt or Sonnan in the same manner, it would have been equally memorable.

Each person is different. Penn got so much credit because he left a relatively weak division to move up to WW to take on better fighters than anyone he could find at 155. Randy got so much credit because he was fighting guys a lot bigger than him at HW. Silva did neither of these things. He took safe fights at 205 that were sure to make him look good and had little chance of hurting his legacy.

Sure, Jones could gain from moving up to HW and fighting the top few guys once he gets bored at LHW, but if he went the Silva route and fought guys tailor made for him, it wouldn't really help much IMO. It's all in who you fight. What Silva did was the equivalent of Jones moving up to fight Shawn Jordan, Frank Mir, and Derrick Lewis.

[Cammo101]

I'd still be more than happy to see Jones move up and fight some heavy hitters, I just don't buy that he needs it for his legacy or anything like that.

[CPT]

Forrest was a legit challenge at that point. Silva may have ruined his career.

Let's not forget that Silva took those fights in the Cote, Leites, Maia as MW challengers era. He was openly bored.

Jones may have cleared out the division, but Gus, Rumble, DC, even Rashad and Davis are better than that. He's got fights for the foreseeable future, if he wants them.

Silva does (and should) get credit for moving up for those fights in all-time discussions, but maybe more than he should. I also don't like when it's used to discredit other fighters who are still winning fights against credible challengers in their natural weight class.

[REDDzone]

Round 3, while not a complete wipeout, was a pretty obvious Jones round. Almost everyone scored that round for him. DC was clearly down 2 rounds to 1 going into the 4th and his prospects were not looking promising, even before he fully gassed. IMO the later part of the 3rd was where Jones really started to wrestle the fight away from DC.

Both rd 1 and rd 3 were close (I scored both for Bones, admittedly). But one of the judges scored 3 for Cormier. Rd4 was the killer for Cormier imo. I want to say after 3, that Cormier had a decent amount more significant strikes.

But then again, unless you watched again, you watched in a bar as I did. Its hard to score a fight accurately like that imo.

[Gregoire]

Round 3, while not a complete wipeout, was a pretty obvious Jones round. Almost everyone scored that round for him. DC was clearly down 2 rounds to 1 going into the 4th and his prospects were not looking promising, even before he fully gassed. IMO the later part of the 3rd was where Jones really started to wrestle the fight away from DC.

Both rd 1 and rd 3 were close (I scored both for Bones, admittedly). But one of the judges scored 3 for Cormier. Rd4 was the killer for Cormier imo. I want to say after 3, that Cormier had a decent amount more significant strikes.

But then again, unless you watched again, you watched in a bar as I did. Its hard to score a fight accurately like that imo.

All first 3 rounds were reasonable close. But for me clearest win of these three was rd 1 for Jones. I think rd 2 and 3 were closer ( one of the judges gave rd 2 to Jones and rd 3 to Cormier), overall I think Jones had slight edge going to 4th, starts from 3:30 remaining in the 3rd he start to outfighting DC. According fightmetrics, espn and ufc sites, Jones had more sig. strikes going to the 4th.

[lilfishi22]

Finally watched the fight and boy was it an anti-climatic. DC looked great in the first 2.5 rounds and then either gassed or broke mentally (I doubt he broke). Jones took some bombs from DC and was pushed hard but he stayed strong mentally and stuck to his gameplan, props to him.

It's a shame because I'm a fan of DC but it was always going to be an uphill battle for him wit the massive size differential.

[lilfishi22]

On a related note, what is there left for Jones at LHW after Gus/Rumble?

[Gregoire]

Finally watched the fight and boy was it an anti-climatic. DC looked great in the first 2.5 rounds and then either gassed or broke mentally (I doubt he broke). Jones took some bombs from DC and was pushed hard but he stayed strong mentally and stuck to his gameplan, props to him.

It's a shame because I'm a fan of DC but it was always going to be an uphill battle for him wit the massive size differential.

How you scored these fight round-by-round?