UFC 180(Nov 15)Cain/Werdum,Hunt steps in for injured Cain...

[REDDzone]

How about we put Cormier back on his Popeye's diet?

This was my first thought as well. I think he is excited to destroy Bones now, but he probably could ahve had an easier fight and reign had he decided to stay at hw and win that belt rather than go down and beat up Bones.

[Bernman]

I'll actually somewhat disagree with you here re: feeling sorry for Werdum. I don't think he would have beaten Cain at altitude, really slim chance imo. He could beat him standing, and could beat him on the ground, but he would have no answer for being pushed against the fence and beat up like Cain would do to him.

Werdum has a sweet muay thai plum and knees in the clinch, unlike JDS. Cain would have to separate to strike, and doesn't have a big one strike power threat. While he's stepping back, muay thai knee after muay thai knee. One of them drops Cain, and he can work his world class jiu-jits.

And it wouldn't shock me if Werdum got a td or 2. You never know in MMA. Gus got Jones down a couple times. Werdum himself got Browne, who had 100% tdd coming in, down a few times as well.

In addition, Werdum has the jab/straights to keep JDS off him more. JDS is much more of an impatient power puncher than Werdum. He leaves more openings to close the distance as a result.

Werdum also has shown strong cardio. He'd have several ways to win the fight.

And I've decided I feel more sorry for Werdum, because he seems much more apt to have that capability himself. He's one of the nicer guys in the sport. Cain comes across as one of the most likely to be sociopaths. The guy has almost no emotion, and in the last fight I swear he paused because he was worried Herb would step in. This after admitting post their previous fight he took more joy out of beating JDS up for 5 rounds. I don't think he's a good guy.

[REDDzone]

Werdum has a sweet muay thai plum and knees in the clinch, unlike JDS. Cain would have to separate to strike, and doesn't have a big one strike power threat. While he's stepping back, muay thai knee after muay thai knee. One of them drops Cain, and he can work his world class jiu-jits.

And it wouldn't shock me if Werdum got a td or 2. You never know in MMA. Gus got Jones down a couple times. Werdum himself got Browne, who had 100% tdd coming in, down a few times as well.

I'm far from a muay thai expert but my understanding is that Werdum would have to control the inside space to get the plum on Cain. There is just no way I could see him being able to outpummel Cain. Additionally, I don't think he would have the distance for anything powerful in the clinch because Cain is bigger and stronger and would be leaning on him so much. And I don't doubt at all Werdum could take down Cain, I just very much doubt that he could KEEP him down.

[Bernman]

Cain is controlling the inside of the space, until he's trying to do damage to his opponent. Then, just like on the ground, that leaves openings.

Speaking of leaving openings on the ground, Werdum would leave them too when he passed and tried to do damage. But in between a world class bjj practitioner should know how to control his opponent.

Who got the better of those situations would be about who timed their moves once openings were left, and who was more potent. Who knows who would have the advantage in the former? But in the latter I'd like Werdum because of those nasty knees and subs. Cain is more a volume guy. His avenue to victory would highly likely be by decision or formality tko. But Werdum could very conceivably finish at any moment, and maybe he wins a decision too.

[lilfishi22]

Werdum has a sweet muay thai plum and knees in the clinch, unlike JDS. Cain would have to separate to strike, and doesn't have a big one strike power threat. While he's stepping back, muay thai knee after muay thai knee. One of them drops Cain, and he can work his world class jiu-jits.

And it wouldn't shock me if Werdum got a td or 2. You never know in MMA. Gus got Jones down a couple times. Werdum himself got Browne, who had 100% tdd coming in, down a few times as well.

In addition, Werdum has the jab/straights to keep JDS off him more. JDS is much more of an impatient power puncher than Werdum. He leaves more openings to close the distance as a result.

Werdum also has shown strong cardio. He'd have several ways to win the fight.

And I've decided I feel more sorry for Werdum, because he seems much more apt to have that capability himself. He's one of the nicer guys in the sport. Cain comes across as one of the most likely to be sociopaths. The guy has almost no emotion, and in the last fight I swear he paused because he was worried Herb would step in. This after admitting post their previous fight he took more joy out of beating JDS up for 5 rounds. I don't think he's a good guy.

Not when you have no room to operate. Which is exactly how much room Cain will give Werdum when he's pushed up against the fence. Unless you're real flexible and have been doing Muay Thai forever, it's extremely difficult to pull off any type of damage with a knee without much space between you and your opponent. We see a lot of knees from guys up against the fence but most do zero damage as they generally only have enough space to hit the other guy with their thigh rather than the knee so they are really just point strikes.

I think Cain is going to run with the same gameplan as he did against JDS and it'll probably work. The guy has awesome top control but I don't think he'll risk taking Werdum down. Cain would also be very difficult to take down and almost impossible to keep down.

[REDDzone]

I honestly would be surprised if Werdum could keep Cain down. He bounced up like a basketball when Brock took him down, nice little technical standup, the dude has crazy hips. And while Brock is no Werdum in submissions, Brock has to pin as well or better than anyone, including Werdum. No, Werdum could sweep and come on top and if he had side control he could hold it but I don't think he could hold him down even from top half. I'm guessing Cain's sub and sub defense game is pretty legit at this point. Camarillo left in 2012 and since then CheckMat has been affiliated with AKA. In addition to grappling with Cormier everyday, Cain gets to go against legit the absolute best bjj player on the planet in Buchecha. I'm also pretty sure Cain has earned a black belt of his own at this point.

All that said, it wouldn't be the first time I picked incorrectly against Werdum. I thought Browne was going to win, but Werdum CLOWNED that dude.

[lilfishi22]

I thought Browne was going to run through Werdum and it looked like it as going to happen when he tagged him and went for the kill. But Werdum survived the barrage and Browne gassed like Reem.

[REDDzone]

Yea the most hilarious part about that is that Werdum went to deep half to recover and threaten a sweep when he was rocked. A few weeks earlier metamoris iii had happened and Royler was dominated by Bravo with a deep half variation. So the Gracies went into full damage control and were saying how Bravo's techniques weren't street applicable and could never work in a fight, etc. Then Werdum is pulling deep half guard and sweeping Travis Browne with it a few weeks later on fox. lolzers.

[lilfishi22]

Yea the most hilarious part about that is that Werdum went to deep half to recover and threaten a sweep when he was rocked. A few weeks earlier metamoris iii had happened and Royler was dominated by Bravo with a deep half variation. So the Gracies went into full damage control and were saying how Bravo's techniques weren't street applicable and could never work in a fight, etc. Then Werdum is pulling deep half guard and sweeping Travis Browne with it a few weeks later on fox. lolzers.

It's funny how the Gracies can make that claim when they train in gi's while Bravo's 10th Planet JJ is strictly no-gi which is A LOT more street applicable.

[REDDzone]

[REDDzone]

Yea the most hilarious part about that is that Werdum went to deep half to recover and threaten a sweep when he was rocked. A few weeks earlier metamoris iii had happened and Royler was dominated by Bravo with a deep half variation. So the Gracies went into full damage control and were saying how Bravo's techniques weren't street applicable and could never work in a fight, etc. Then Werdum is pulling deep half guard and sweeping Travis Browne with it a few weeks later on fox. lolzers.

It's funny how the Gracies can make that claim when they train in gi's while Bravo's 10th Planet JJ is strictly no-gi which is A LOT more street applicable.

Meh, most gracies train both gi and nogi which imo is better than just nogi. I think to be a complete grappler you should do both, but what the f*ck do I know I guess.

Plus, Bravo admits that his gi pants help out a lot with his techniques. He isn't grappling with shorts or spats. So technically he wears half a gi.

[lilfishi22]

If Werdum could get out of the clinch as easily as that against Cain, he would be the first.

[SDM]

I honestly would be surprised if Werdum could keep Cain down. He bounced up like a basketball when Brock took him down, nice little technical standup, the dude has crazy hips. And while Brock is no Werdum in submissions, Brock has to pin as well or better than anyone, including Werdum. No, Werdum could sweep and come on top and if he had side control he could hold it but I don't think he could hold him down even from top half. I'm guessing Cain's sub and sub defense game is pretty legit at this point. Camarillo left in 2012 and since then CheckMat has been affiliated with AKA. In addition to grappling with Cormier everyday, Cain gets to go against legit the absolute best bjj player on the planet in Buchecha. I'm also pretty sure Cain has earned a black belt of his own at this point.

All that said, it wouldn't be the first time I picked incorrectly against Werdum. I thought Browne was going to win, but Werdum CLOWNED that dude.

Cain's hips + motor... yeah, he's not staying down for long if it even manages to get there. You stuff Brock, you're legit.

Over/under on strikes landed by Cain: 150

[REDDzone]

Cain's hips + motor... yeah, he's not staying down for long if it even manages to get there. You stuff Brock, you're legit.

Over/under on strikes landed by Cain: 150

After watching highlights from that Werdum/Browne fight for so long last night, I was thinking of turning heel here and ask you how Cain was going to land so many strikes WITH HIS ARM BROKEN?!!?!!?

But then I decided that I agree with you, unfortunately.

[SDM]

Don't get me wrong, would love a Werdum win as that might make him the GOAT HW with his resume, with the bulk of the marquee wins coming after a time when many thought he was just another good heavyweight. It's a great story, basically a HW version of Chael's fascinating rise from journeyman to legit threat (but hopefully clean, this time).

[NZB2323]

I'd favor Cain, but if Cheick Kongo can rock Cain, so can Werdum. And Werdum is certainly better at finishing off a rocked opponent than Kongo.

[REDDzone]

I'd favor Cain, but if Cheick Kongo can rock Cain, so can Werdum. And Werdum is certainly better at finishing off a rocked opponent than Kongo.

That was like 5.5 years ago and only 3 years into Cain's career.

[lilfishi22]

I'd favor Cain, but if Cheick Kongo can rock Cain, so can Werdum. And Werdum is certainly better at finishing off a rocked opponent than Kongo.

That was so long ago and Cain has improved so much since then. He took wild bombs from JDS in their last two fights and still didn't get put away.

[Bernman]

That was like 5.5 years ago and only 3 years into Cain's career.

It may have been w/ a torn acl, but that didn't excuse his chin when he was 1-punch ko'ed effectively by JDS the first time. And he got hurt by him multiple times the last fight. But JDS couldn't get the separation to follow up and finish him off because I think he sucks dong in the clinch. Are there other fights with him doing good clinch work? I don't think there are, but Werdum has been painting some masterpieces in that dept as you displayed by the beautiful gif against Browne you provided or in the Big Country fight. I think some of those knees on Big Country take Cain out. He doesn't have Country's chin. And he may have been able to finish Browne if he needed to, but he was in mission control after the first few minutes. Sure, Cain may be able to land 150 if it goes the distance. But Werdum lands half as many, but harder ones, if it does too. And his are much more apt to ensure it doesn't.

I say Werdum WHEREVER IT GOES. I'm calling my shot. Hopefully the fight doesn't fall apart and we can find out who's right.

[REDDzone]

Hopefully.