CJ & T-ROB

przem885 · Post #1 » by **przem885** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:22 am

What do you think about this guys. We have great starters who will be play at least good as last year, so if we want to win something more CJ and T-rob must do a next step.
Cj is great player. If he has more lucky last year he would play as we expected. He need more minutes and we can hope for 10 ppg from him.
T-rob is harder nut to crack. He is amazing energetic player with good atgletic preparation. I'm big fun on Robinson and I would like to see him play 20 mpg and get some credit of trust from staff and players.

So if one of them show potential and Kaman & Blake play good I thing we have chance to Conference Finals and create a way to future succes and 2015 Olshey plan.

Wizenheimer · Post #2 » by **Wizenheimer** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:15 pm

Total minutes/game available at PG/SG is 96

if you figure:

Lillard 36
Matthews 34
Blake 20

90 minutes right there, leaving only 6, not accounting for injury. But Lillard hasn't missed a game yet and Matthews is an iron man. Now, Blake has had trouble staying healthy the last couple of seasons, so maybe there will be some minutes available because of that
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total minutes available at C/PF is 96

Aldridge 36
Lopez 28
Kaman 20

84 minutes leaving 12 (about what TRob averaged last season). Again, it's possible/probable that injuries and missed games will open more minutes
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one major 'problem' for those two bench players you mention is that Lillard slides to SG quite a bit and Aldridge slides over to C some, especially when Portland runs small-ball lineups, often as a necessity to counter all the small-ball lineups that other teams run

that would mean that both CJ and TRob getting playing time could be butting up against team needs that don't fit their skillsets

theoretically, backup SF minutes could open more for the SG position (CJ), but that means teammates playing out of position or CJ suddenly developing PG skills he's never displayed. TRob might have more opportunity, especially when Aldridge slides to C, but Freeland will be competing for his minutes and we saw last season that Freeland was ahead of TRob in the rotation, at least until his injury. For that matter, Will Barton will be competing with CJ for minutes and he has more PG skills (though you wouldn't want the team to spend too much time with either in that role). CJ's one advantage may be that Blake isn't the type of player that creates his own shot like Mo Williams did. That might be a role that CJ can fill, but again, he'd have to do that from the SG position and finding those minutes will be difficult with Matthews and Lillard healthy

and of course, the wild card is Dorell Wright who not only played SF, but also PF in those small ball lineups. I'd also think Batum will get a little burn at SG and maybe even some at PF

I think Stotts will give players opportunities. He did that last season.

PDXKnight · Post #3 » by **PDXKnight** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:51 pm

With kaman's injury history it wouldn't shock me if t rob still gets plenty of minutes when all is said and done by default. Ultimately the competition may be good for t rob, perhaps he can step up bigger with better competition for his position.

Lillard and la will get their minutes but there is still a Bit of a grey area with Blake and kaman if McCollum or Robinson can take their game up a notch. I don't think this happens personally but it's certainly in the realm of possibility since Blake and kaman are not near where they were in their primes (kaman is no longer a fringe all star and Blake is hit and miss).

a_sensei · Post #4 » by **a_sensei** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:40 pm

My thought is that there will be some openings and Stotts will give the young guys that showed some promise- McCollum, Robinson and Barton some time. If any of the three have taken that next level of development to legit. 6/7th man that'll put them a notch above the three vets that'll get the bulk of minutes to start- Blake, Wright and Kaman.

Norm2953 · Post #5 » by **Norm2953** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:24 pm

CJ seems to be in great shape heading in fall camp but it remains to be seen whether he
will beat out Blake for PT.

Remember though 4 of Portland's starters played all 82 games last season. Not likely that's
going to happen again so opportunities for CJ, T-Rob and even guys like Meyers are going
to happen. Those guys have to be ready when opportunity knocks.

jhern87 · Post #6 » by **jhern87** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:19 pm

Honestly it might be Will Barton that gets those backup 2 minutes. I'm hoping that CJ can become the player that we felt he could be when we drafted him.. This team needs a 6th man to come in and make plays.

JasonStern · Post #7 » by **JasonStern** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:14 pm

Wizenheimer pretty much summed up what I was going to say, but much more elegantly and in much more detail.

that said, McCollum should worry about beating out Barton before everyone gets their hopes up that he will average 10ppg.

GreenRiddler · Post #8 » by **GreenRiddler** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:51 am

Scoring is the least of CJ's worries, he can score well over 10ppg if given the mins, he needs to learn how to make quick decisions and play freely. Gain the trust of teammates and coaches. All the talent is there just has to put it together.

That comes with time and with Barton and a fragile Blake competing with him for mins I think he will have boatloads of time.

GreenRiddler · Post #9 » by **GreenRiddler** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:54 am

a_sensei wrote:My thought is that there will be some openings and Stotts will give the young guys that showed some promise- McCollum, Robinson and Barton some time. If any of the three have taken that next level of development to legit. 6/7th man that'll put them a notch above the three vets that'll get the bulk of minutes to start- Blake, Wright and Kaman.

Wright is an intersting situation, I think if he doesn't put up in training camp and pre-season that is it for him, he'll be out fo the rotation. I don't think he will be handed a spot based on previous years this time, he has to show he can play well and consistently in limited mins or get to sitting.

GreenRiddler · Post #10 » by **GreenRiddler** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:57 am

Why do people think Robinson is competing for mins with Kaman?

Kaman is given all of the center mins behinnd Lopez and Robinson is fighting to get the 14 mins at the PF spot from Freeland, Wright, Leonard and Claver.

Post #11 » by **DaVoiceMaster** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:10 pm

Robinson probably gets some backup minutes in the playing rotation, but not many. McCollum & Barton will have to take minutes away from Blake. That may or may not be all that difficult to do. I'd love to see the guys take the next step, but I'm not holding my breath at this point. They gotta show me something before I get too excited.

Wizenheimer · Post #12 » by **Wizenheimer** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:08 pm

DaVoiceMaster wrote:McCollum & Barton will have to take minutes away from Blake. That may or may not be all that difficult to do.

I don't think it's that simple. Those two guys will have to take minutes away from Lillard at SG, IMO

go back to Lillard's rookie season. By the all-star break he was dragging and his efficiency was falling. IIRC, he even mentioned how the burden of always being the guy to bring the ball up and initiate offense was hurting his game a bit. Stotts tried a few times to play Lillard at SG with either Nolan Smith or Ronnie Preice running the offense, but those 2 guys just sucked and the experiment was a failure

then Olshey traded for Eric Maynor and suddenly, there was a competent enough 2nd PG on the roster to allow Lillard to spend some time at SG...and Lillard's efficiency went back up

last season, 5 of Portland's top-10 five man units featured the Lillard-Williams combo in the backcourt, and I'm pretty sure Mo didn't play SG in any of them. Or at least not in the traditional sense because Williams had the actual ability to play PG and did almost all of the time

Lillard will play 36 minutes. Even if he only plays SG for 10 minutes, that added to the minutes Matthews plays will leave very little available at that position. On the other hand, that would open up 20-22 minutes a game at the PG position. I only see one other player on the roster that has demonstrated competency at PG, and that's Blake.

the wild card is probably Batum. Batum/Wright as the SG/SF combo might be enough ball-handling to get away with Barton or CJ as the PG, but that would be for pretty short stretches I'd imagine

Shem · Post #13 » by **Shem** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:39 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:McCollum & Barton will have to take minutes away from Blake. That may or may not be all that difficult to do.

I don't think it's that simple. Those two guys will have to take minutes away from Lillard at SG, IMO

go back to Lillard's rookie season. By the all-star break he was dragging and his efficiency was falling. IIRC, he even mentioned how the burden of always being the guy to bring the ball up and initiate offense was hurting his game a bit. Stotts tried a few times to play Lillard at SG with either Nolan Smith or Ronnie Preice running the offense, but those 2 guys just sucked and the experiment was a failure

then Olshey traded for Eric Maynor and suddenly, there was a competent enough 2nd PG on the roster to allow Lillard to spend some time at SG...and Lillard's efficiency went back up

last season, 5 of Portland's top-10 five man units featured the Lillard-Williams combo in the backcourt, and I'm pretty sure Mo didn't play SG in any of them. Or at least not in the traditional sense because Williams had the actual ability to play PG and did almost all of the time

Lillard will play 36 minutes. Even if he only plays SG for 10 minutes, that added to the minutes Matthews plays will leave very little available at that position. On the other hand, that would open up 20-22 minutes a game at the PG position. I only see one other player on the roster that has demonstrated competency at PG, and that's Blake.

the wild card is probably Batum. Batum/Wright as the SG/SF combo might be enough ball-handling to get away with Barton or CJ as the PG, but that would be for pretty short stretches I'd imagine

It was more important at the time Lillard play some SG his rookie year because he was leading the league in minutes and it was... well... his first year in the league and the first time in his life he played that much in a season. It's gets really hard when you're playing the hardest and most competitive position in the league and it's your first time while adjusting to the length of the longer NBA games along with the amount of games you play.

Now Lillard is way more experienced and his minutes went down last year. I think it's not as important as it was two years ago to play SG. Notice that the Blazers didn't get a third string PG unless that's going to be Blake. If what I say is true, I can see Blake just taking up the backup PG minutes. The roster seems to be set up that way. And if you can get away with that, it would be smart because Blake isn't going to give you much offense. CJ has the best tools to score off the bench and if it's going to be improved next season, he's going to need consistent minutes to be effective

Wizenheimer · Post #14 » by **Wizenheimer** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:32 pm

Shem wrote:It was more important at the time Lillard play some SG his rookie year because he was leading the league in minutes and it was... well... his first year in the league and the first time in his life he played that much in a season. It's gets really hard when you're playing the hardest and most competitive position in the league and it's your first time while adjusting to the length of the longer NBA games along with the amount of games you play.

Now Lillard is way more experienced and his minutes went down last year. I think it's not as important as it was two years ago to play SG. Notice that the Blazers didn't get a third string PG unless that's going to be Blake. If what I say is true, I can see Blake just taking up the backup PG minutes. The roster seems to be set up that way. And if you can get away with that, it would be smart because Blake isn't going to give you much offense. CJ has the best tools to score off the bench and if it's going to be improved next season, he's going to need consistent minutes to be effective

Lillard played more SG last season then his rookie season...way more actually

I do know Lillard has said, more then once, that he wants to get time at SG when all the responsibility of running the offense isn't on him.

lots of Blazer fans complained last season about the seeming fact that when Mo and Lillard played together, Mo didn't do a good job of getting the ball to Lillard. You seem to be assuming that Blake has been signed to just play backup minutes at SG. Maybe that's correct. But maybe, the Blazers want a PG who when playing with Lillard will be able to get him the ball better then Mo did

this stuff about CJ "needing" consistent minutes doesn't make a lot of sense in the larger picture. It's a sound-byte. Claver needs consistent minutes. Crabbe needs consistent minutes. Leonard needs consistent minutes. So what? If they are good enough to deserve minutes, they'll get them. Same for CJ. But in the Western Conference. Portland can't afford to just "give" consistent minutes to young players who aren't consistently productive. However, they may be forced to because of Olshey's moves and the roster he has built

I do agree that Blake is not much of a scorer. I like Blake as the player he was a few years ago. Not real impressed what he is at 34. I was a bit disappointed in his signing. Hoped for a little more.

I sure hope CJ comes in and is the player his fans around here think he is. I didn't see any of that last season, but maybe the lack of a full training camp was as big a factor as some say

Post #15 » by **DaVoiceMaster** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:54 pm

I'd rather see Barton and Lillard on the court than CJ and Lillard. Barton has the size to guard the SG. CJ is about the same size as Lillard. I don't wanna see 2 small guys on the court when the other team has a bigger SG. Maybe they need to put the ball in Batum's hands more when Lillard is on the court. He always seems to wanna defer anyways.

Shem · Post #16 » by **Shem** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:38 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Shem wrote:It was more important at the time Lillard play some SG his rookie year because he was leading the league in minutes and it was... well... his first year in the league and the first time in his life he played that much in a season. It's gets really hard when you're playing the hardest and most competitive position in the league and it's your first time while adjusting to the length of the longer NBA games along with the amount of games you play.

Now Lillard is way more experienced and his minutes went down last year. I think it's not as important as it was two years ago to play SG. Notice that the Blazers didn't get a third string PG unless that's going to be Blake. If what I say is true, I can see Blake just taking up the backup PG minutes. The roster seems to be set up that way. And if you can get away with that, it would be smart because Blake isn't going to give you much offense. CJ has the best tools to score off the bench and if it's going to be improved next season, he's going to need consistent minutes to be effective

Lillard played more SG last season then his rookie season...way more actually

Well, wouldn't that be because we had Mo all season last year versus we only had Maynor since the trade deadline Lillard's rookie year and using Nolan Smith and Ronnie Price was a disaster most of the time?

Wizenheimer wrote:I do know Lillard has said, more then once, that he wants to get time at SG when all the responsibility of running the offense isn't on him.

The last time I've heard Lillard say that is probably during training camp last year. Now if he has said since or says it anytime in the near future, let me know in case I miss it.

Wizenheimer wrote:lYou seem to be assuming that Blake has been signed to just play backup minutes at SG. Maybe that's correct. But maybe, the Blazers want a PG who when playing with Lillard will be able to get him the ball better then Mo did

Not sure how I made it seem like that. I'll try to clarify. In the past the Blazers had a starting PG, a backup PG, and a third string PG. This year we don't have that. So either Barton and McCollum are going to back some burn at the PG, or Blake is specifically going to be used for that, or both. Which means more PG time for Lillard and no SG time. There has to be some sort of trust being issued out when you have either CJ or Barton handling third string duties or backup duties.

Wizenheimer wrote:this stuff about CJ "needing" consistent minutes doesn't make a lot of sense in the larger picture. It's a sound-byte. Claver needs consistent minutes. Crabbe needs consistent minutes. Leonard needs consistent minutes. So what? If they are good enough to deserve minutes, they'll get them. Same for CJ. But in the Western Conference. Portland can't afford to just "give" consistent minutes to young players who aren't consistently productive.

CJ is the ONLY guy I have indorsed this in a long time. The last time was Patty, but at the same time I wasn't confident it would work well as long as McMillan was the coach. The reason for CJ is we're going to need bench scoring this season and he's the best qualified to do so as he's the only one who can create his own shot off the bench. IMO, it's the best move to make in terms of getting that bench production. This IMO is a MUST!!!

Wizenheimer wrote:I do agree that Blake is not much of a scorer. I like Blake as the player he was a few years ago. Not real impressed what he is at 34. I was a bit disappointed in his signing. Hoped for a little more.

Again, it will depend on how they plan to use him. I'm holding out judgment on this move because I know Nate isn't here anymore and Blake's role hasn't been revealed. With the Blazers going with two PG's on the roster, it's tough to say how this is going to play out since I've never seen this scenario in years.

d-train · Post #17 » by **d-train** » Wed Oct 1, 2014 7:30 am

Lillard is a better scorer than PG. Generally, scorers like to play SG more than PG because it matches up their primary responsibility with what they most like to do.

It's going to be an interesting camp for T-Rob and CJ. Actually, this camp is shaping up to be one of the more competitive in recent memory. I hope that the Blazers don't kill each other before the first game.

dorkestra · Post #18 » by **dorkestra** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:07 am

I have a very strong feeling that McCollum "breaks out" this year. Not with acne. But with his production.

d-train · Post #19 » by **d-train** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:37 pm

dorkestra wrote:I have a very strong feeling that McCollum "breaks out" this year. Not with acne. But with his production.

He is a talented offensive player.

Post #20 » by **DaVoiceMaster** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:51 pm

I liked T-Rob after last season, but in the 1 game I saw him play so far in the pre-season, I was not impressed. Of all 13 guys that played, he was the least effective, worst defender and created issues on the court by not covering the right player (sometimes we doubled a guy without the ball leaving another guy wide open). I can see why he did not play much if that's how it's going to be.