RealGM

GreenRiddler wrote:I would prefer mclemore to Goodwin since goodwin needs the ball in his hands to be effective and will turn out like a Reke Burks type bust since he has a broken jumper and bad offensive instincts and off the ball play.

Agree to disagree. With LMA, Batum, Lillard, Wes, potentially Leonard and even our role players stretching the floor we can definitely afford a guy without a jumper. And Goodwins jumper actually doesn't look so bad (40% on 1.9 3PTA). And his driving ability is elite. You can always use a guy like that, especially with a good offensive coach. Also, the guy is 18 and will turn 19 two months after the draft.

I also believe that Reke and would improve this team and fit well. Also too early to call them busts IMO when Reke had a 20/5/5 rookie season, actually has solid numbers and is in a toxic stuation in Sacramento (also he's improved leaps and bounds off the ball) and Burks, while he has disappointed, was a 12th pick, is only in his second year and on a team that lacks outside shooting.

Plus, look how Stott's has used Lillard offensively for stretches this season. Would you rather see more of Price and Lillard or a bit of Lillard and Goodwin?

We need that secondary handler/creator, we have enough players who can play off ball.

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:We need that secondary handler/creator, we have enough players who can play off ball.

Thank you, sir

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Plus, look how Stott's has used Lillard offensively for stretches this season. Would you rather see more of Price and Lillard or a bit of Lillard and Goodwin?

We need that secondary handler/creator, we have enough players who can play off ball.

maybe, but I'm thinking it's a pretty difficult balancing act, otherwise Jamal Crawford would have looked a lot better as a Blazer last season

I think Batum is that secondary creator. He's averaging almost 5 assists per game.

Wizenheimer wrote:

DeBlazerRiddem wrote:Plus, look how Stott's has used Lillard offensively for stretches this season. Would you rather see more of Price and Lillard or a bit of Lillard and Goodwin?

We need that secondary handler/creator, we have enough players who can play off ball.

maybe, but I'm thinking it's a pretty difficult balancing act, otherwise Jamal Crawford would have looked a lot better as a Blazer last season

Man, for a period of time, Jamal Crawford did look pretty good as a Blazer last year (not as good as he does on the Clippers, where he is the secondary ball handler, but better than he had the year before on the Hawks).

I think he and Nate came to heads about the role he would play, which Crawford has adamantly maintained he is not a PG throughout his career, and so Crawford went into "me-first" mode looking for his new contract. We all know it was a sort of "perfect storm" situation, with various other factors playing a role.

Also, Felton is a very different PG from Lillard. Felton was not good off the ball, while Lillard playing with a secondary ball handler happens almost every game.

But you must agree, I swear you have made the point yourself, that the modern NBA is evolving to require several different players capable of initiating an offense. Of course it is a balancing act, you have to get the players to buy into their respective roles and a coach who can use them appropriately, but I would imagine a rookie like Goodwin would be much more malleable than a vet like Crawford.

cucad8 wrote:I think Batum is that secondary creator. He's averaging almost 5 assists per game.

I do like what Batum is doing this year, and was taking his contributions into consideration, so maybe what I am really talking about a legitimate bench creator? A tertiary creator? I dunno, you make a good point, but I still think we are a ball handler/creator short. I also would like to see Batum focus on and try to keep his scoring up.

A little bit unrelated, but I have been thinking that there is a good argument to be made that Batum is playing more like a SG this year than a SF. Kind of a pointless distinction, except that it might give us the versatility to play a more traditional SF sometime in the future.

deblazer...I am just fine with adding another ball-handler. I do think the Blazers are a bit short in that department

but I'd like it to come in the form of a competent 2nd unit PG first. Price and Nolan are terrible. So were Armon Johnson and Patty Mills

under the right contract a player like Luke Ridnour would be helpful. For that matter, even some of the past Blazer PG's would be good in a reserve role....somebody like Jarret Jack. Obviously, it would be nice to have somebody better then either of those, but there aren't too many like that who would sign on to be Lillard's back-up

Patty was not terrible...I thought he killed it in whatever minutes Nate would toss him and I was stunned when they just let him walk. I would love for patty to be our back up and honestly thought he could've been a legit starter. Every once in a while someone gives him start minutes and he goes off, like last season in San Antonio. I don't know, you're the advanced stat guru so maybe I'm wrong.

Wizenheimer wrote:deblazer...I am just fine with adding another ball-handler. I do think the Blazers are a bit short in that department

but I'd like it to come in the form of a competent 2nd unit PG first. Price and Nolan are terrible. So were Armon Johnson and Patty Mills

under the right contract a player like Luke Ridnour would be helpful. For that matter, even some of the past Blazer PG's would be good in a reserve role....somebody like Jarret Jack. Obviously, it would be nice to have somebody better then either of those, but there aren't too many like that who would sign on to be Lillard's back-up

I agree with you. One thing I would like to say is that I was never a fan of McMillians 2 separate units, so I would like a guy who can log some minutes next to Lillard, which is why I think having a combo-guard would make sense for the bench.

However, I think both Ridnour and Jack could hold down that role for spot minutes, so good suggestions there. I also would like to try and steal Bradley from Boston, but that might be unreasonable.

Case2012 wrote:Patty was not terrible...I thought he killed it in whatever minutes Nate would toss him and I was stunned when they just let him walk. I would love for patty to be our back up and honestly thought he could've been a legit starter. Every once in a while someone gives him start minutes and he goes off, like last season in San Antonio. I don't know, you're the advanced stat guru so maybe I'm wrong.

Patty is a decent 3 pt shooter. That's about it. When given playing time in Portland he shot 35% from 3. In the San Antonio system he's been shooting about 43%, but it's safe to say that the Spurs, for years, have been able to maximize three point shooting.

other then that, Mills is weak. He's a defensive sieve for one thing. Part of that is due to being under 6'0 with a short wing span

but as a PG, his career per36 averages are 4.4 assists and 2.9 turnovers. And those numbers come after having played half his time in the well-oiled San Antonio system

IMO, any PG who has an assist/turnover ratio under 2.0 is doing a poor job of point-guarding. Mills has a ratio of 1.52 which is absolutely horrible. To make matters worse, his per36 numbers this season are 2.2 assists vs 2.3 turnovers. He's actually been able to fall under a 1.0 assist/turnover ratio!

to put it in perspective, we all know how 'poorly' Ronnie Price does running the Blazer offense. Yet his per36 numbers this year are 5.3 assists vs 2.2 turnovers...again, compared to Mills at 4.4 vs 2.9 career, and 2.2 vs 2.3 this season

Price has an assist/turnover ratio this season of 2.41 compared to Mills' career ratio of 1.52 and season ratio of a toilet-worthy 0.96

what it tells me is what I had decided when Mills was a Blazer. That being that he's not a PG. He's a midget SG who can't play defense and will find imaginative ways to give the ball to the opponent. His shooting ability, IMO, does not come close to offsetting his shortcomings in all other phases of the game. He does wave a towel well though

Anyone with eyes knows Patty Mills was better on offense than Ronnie Price.

Pattycakes wrote:Anyone with eyes knows Patty Mills was better on offense than Ronnie Price.

he's a much better shooter, no argument. But he's horrible defensively, and a lousy PG

this season, per36, Mills is averaging 2.2 assists vs 2.3 turnovers. Price is averaging 5.3 assists vs 2.2 turnovers

that's an assist/turnover ratio for Mills of 0.96, which is absolutely horrendous for a PG. I don't think I've ever seen one that low, certainly not after the player has appeared in 32 games

I'm with Wiz, Patty can have some decent moments being a outside shooting threat, but he is in no way shape or form a PG.

The role Jarred Jack is playing with the Warriors this season would be ideal for the Blazers. A off the bench ball handler that would allow Lillard to get some time as an off ball scorer.

Milkdud wrote:I'm with Wiz, Patty can have some decent moments being a outside shooting threat, but he is in no way shape or form a PG.

Count me in too. The point about being a midget SG was spot on. Mills might help open the floor better than Price, but that doesn't make him a better PG. Of course, I'm not sure Pattycakes was making a point about who is a better PG, let alone a better player all things considered. It's debatable who is better for an offense, a shooter or a playmaker, but I think it mostly depends on who you have on the floor with them, such as if you have a penetrating SG who can pass or a high quality shooter at SG. In my opinion, I think Price would be easier to pair up, maybe if we can snag Redick this offseason.

The role Jarred Jack is playing with the Warriors this season would be ideal for the Blazers. A off the bench ball handler that would allow Lillard to get some time as an off ball scorer.

Word. Top 25 passer, top 25 3-point shooter and above average defender. I would say Jack is one of, if not the best backup point guard in the league. Interesting that he backs up a similar player to Lillard, and the team finds a lot of success with that.

Still like Patty cakes. He's a super nice guy too so it's kinda sad to hear people rip on him. I think whenever we discuss former blazers it's important to remember what a ball stopping, horrible offensive coach we've had for the last several years, who I think failed to utilize pgs immensely. I also remember patty being a pretty fancy playmaker at times, so I think the the sg opinion is wrong, but does account for his high TO rate. Scoring pgs usually seem to develop the tiny sg label but I think they're just good at scoring and play to that strength.