Ducks and Beavers gamethread

[kdawg32086]

Sounds like part of the defensive issues in the 2nd quarter could be related to an injury. Troy Hill (who played out of his mind) apparently got hurt in the 2nd quarter and was replaced by Dior Mathis (who looked terrible). Eventually, Hill kept bugging coach Neal and came back in the 2nd half when the defense started to look good again.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0WGUYhVvVI[/youtube]

I've gotta say, Troy Hill and Joe Walker got A LOT better in the offseason.

[a_sensei]

I've gotta say, Troy Hill and Joe Walker got A LOT better in the offseason.

I've put Mathis and Hill in the- I hope some of the younger guys earn playing time so we don't have to see these guys category, but Hill looks like he's figured it out.

[jhern87]

I've gotta say, Troy Hill and Joe Walker got A LOT better in the offseason.

I've put Mathis and Hill in the- I hope some of the younger guys earn playing time so we don't have to see these guys category, but Hill looks like he's figured it out.

I think we all saw exactly why Mathis has never cracked the starting rotation, last Saturday. He's very small and not that great in coverage. I've always thought Troy Hill was solid. We're very lucky to have him opposite of Ifo.

[Brandon-Clyde]

In the first 1 1/2 quarters Wyoming looked like they could be poised to upset the Ducks. Then the Ducks exploded and in the 3rd quarter lead 41-7

[Brandon-Clyde]

48-14 the final score. Props to the Wyoming Cowboys who played hard and at least in the first half gave the Ducks everything they could handle

[jhern87]

48-14 the final score. Props to the Wyoming Cowboys who played hard and at least in the first half gave the Ducks everything they could handle

Their O-line was pretty impressive. Their receiver - #7 - was solid too. That coaching staff seems to be getting quite a bit out of what they have.

Oregon's D looked subpar, once again and I attribute that (for the most part) to more poor linebacker play. Also, I couldn't be more nervous about their depth on the OL. Mariota has looked phenomenal so far this year but unfortunately I don't know if the O-line will be healthy enough and it will cause us to lose a game or two. Hope I'm wrong though.

[JasonStern]

48-14 the final score. Props to the Wyoming Cowboys who played hard and at least in the first half gave the Ducks everything they could handle

the game was never in question. while the defense was questionable at times, Wyoming didn't seem capable of stopping Oregon's second team offense, let alone their first team offense. worst case, the game looked like it might have been a shoot out, which would have been concerning long-term.

[Brandon-Clyde]

48-14 the final score. Props to the Wyoming Cowboys who played hard and at least in the first half gave the Ducks everything they could handle

the game was never in question. while the defense was questionable at times, Wyoming didn't seem capable of stopping Oregon's second team offense, let alone their first team offense. worst case, the game looked like it might have been a shoot out, which would have been concerning long-term.

Did the Ducks score in the 1st quarter? Nope. In fact the Ducks did not even take the lead until the middle of the 2nd quarter. Wyoming's defense even stopped the Ducks from scoring on a first and goal. The Ducks are the superior team no doubt(the final score proves that) but Wyoming came to play and gave the Ducks a challenge early. It is only fair and right to acknowledge their effort

[JasonStern]

Did the Ducks score in the 1st quarter? Nope. In fact the Ducks did not even take the lead until the middle of the 2nd quarter. Wyoming's defense even stopped the Ducks from scoring on a first and goal. The Ducks are the superior team no doubt(the final score proves that) but Wyoming came to play and gave the Ducks a challenge early. It is only fair and right to acknowledge their effort

Oregon's offense had the ball for just 3:15 in the first quarter. they had one stalled drive during that time - one - where they still took the ball 78 yards before turning it over on downs. the next four possessions in the first half were all touchdowns.

credit where it's due - Wyoming's offense tested Oregon's defense throughout the game and they gained 439 yards on the supposed #2 team in the country. Nevada, Boise State, Utah State, Colorado State, and Wyoming have all represented the Mountain West Conference well, and I would much rather see teams play non-power five FBS teams instead of some FCS patsy. but the idea that, outside of one set of downs, Oregon's offense struggled against Wyoming with Mariota still in the game is a bit unfounded.

[Brandon-Clyde]

Ducks and Beavers both down 7-0 early

[Brandon-Clyde]

Ducks tie it up and Beavers are driving. Ducks really need to play better D

[Brandon-Clyde]

Ducks give up another TD

[JasonStern]

outside of Mariota and Allen, that was ugly. but a win is a win...

[JasonStern]

well, that was embarrassing. never expected Helfrich to live up to Kelly, but the Ducks have a huge talent gap over Arizona and failed again to capitalize on it. that's sad because those were the games Kelly won. if the Ducks lost to USC/UCLA/Stanford, that would be easy to deal with because the talent level is on par. but the Arizona loss was Oregon being completely out-coached and out-executed. and while everyone will be quick to point out the multitude of injuries to the offensive line, that doesn't explain the defense.

the scary thing isn't even facing UCLA next week, or what Stanford's defense will do to this makeshift offensive line. the scary thing is next season. these home games are going to be road games, Mariota will be gone, as will Ifo from the already weak secondary.

[Wizenheimer]

well, that was embarrassing. never expected Helfrich to live up to Kelly, but the Ducks have a huge talent gap over Arizona and failed again to capitalize on it.

I don't believe the talent gap really exists. I think that's a fable

I'd be curious to see where it is you say Oregon has a HUGE talent advantage

QB?...obviously Mariotta is better then the AZ QB...score 1

RB?...after watching last night's game I can't see how you could say the combo of Freeman/Tyner is significantly better then the AZ pair

WR?....if anything, I'd give the advantage to AZ. Certainly they have bigger receivers who have proven a lot more then Oregon's unit. Maybe if the Ducks had Addison this season, they'd have an advantage. Without him, no

OLine?....well, here's the rub isn't it. AZ had the unquestionable huge talent advantage and an equally large experience advantage. That's a slam-dunk in AZ's favor. And of course, that went a long way in offsetting the advantage at QB

DLine?...maybe Buckner and Armstead are better then anything AZ has, but after that it might be a slew of AZ linemen who are better then the rest of Oregon's unit. I think that's the case. And of course, Armstead only played a quarter last night.

LB?...that's a joke right? Oregon may have the worst group of LB's in the conference. They can't fill gaps, they can't tackle, and they are ineffective in either pass coverage or attacking the line.

DB's?....Ifo is the best DB on either team, and they have Dargan. but after him, the Ducks have nothing but mediocre players. Hill can't stay healthy and Dior Mathis is just bad

special teams?...AZ has a better kicker and a better punter. They also have better returners

in other words, on offense, I think Oregon only has a clear talent advantage at QB and that's eroded significantly by the issues with the OLine (and there are reports that Mariotta played injured last night, which partially explains why he didn't run much). The RB's and recievers are about even. On defense, Oregon may have a slightly better secondary, but the DLines are a wash and AZ has a big advantage at LB. AZ has more talent on special teams

I just don't see any "huge gap" in talent. Again, I think that's myth

all that isn't to excuse some coaching issues which I think are there. But sometimes, even great coaching isn't going to overcome poor talent and massive losses at certain positions. For instance, since Oregon played Texas in the Alamo Bowl about 8 months ago and training camp started, they have lost, due to graduation, medical retirement, and injury, 11 offensive linemen. Yeah, that's right...eleven

as far as the defense, this year's defense is less talented then last years, by a good margin IMO. And last year's defense was the least talented in a decade

now, it would be legitimate to question the recruiting success in that case. But here a little secret that Chip Kelly lovers (I'm one) need to come to grips with: Oregon was much better at recruiting defensive players, especially in the front-7 under Mike Bellotti then were under Kelly. We're seeing that weakness manifest itself on defense this year

[JasonStern]

well, that was embarrassing. never expected Helfrich to live up to Kelly, but the Ducks have a huge talent gap over Arizona and failed again to capitalize on it.

I don't believe the talent gap really exists. I think that's a fable

I'd be curious to see where it is you say Oregon has a HUGE talent advantage

I'm not going to break down each position and compare them to Arizona, as football is such a team game that those types of comparisons don't work. Mariota is better than Solomon, but without an offensive line, it doesn't look that way. Run T-M-Free is better than the running backs at Arizona, but without Mariota being a pass threat and without getting blocks, they look very mediocre. etc., etc. that said:

Oregon:
2014 recruiting class: #22
3 year recruiting average: #19
3 year overall ranking: #18
5 year recruiting average: #16
5 year overall ranking: #14

Arizona:
2014 recruiting class: #31
3 year recruiting average: #38
3 year overall ranking: #41
5 year recruiting average: #42
5 year overall ranking: #44

source: http://cfbmatrix.com/2014-team-recruiting-trends

"well, recruiting scouts and their evaluations are wrong"

fair enough, but it is fairly odd then that the national champion has consistently been won by top ten recruiters throughout the BCS era, with Oregon and Virginia Tech being the only team outside the top fifteen in recruiting to even make it to the national championship..

but pretending your belief that an Oregon team that, when healthy, defeated Michigan State, has the same talent level as an Arizona team that struggled against UTSA and Nevada, why is that? some of the drop off in recruiting can be attributed to uncertainty with Chip Kelly remaining the head coach (flirted with Tampa Bay, then ultimately leaving the year after despite telling recruits otherwise up until he quit), and some could be attributed to the Lyles saga/NCAA investigation. but Oregon's recruiting is trending downward. I know Oregon lost one scholarship and had to reduce the number of paid visits, but the rate at which Oregon's recruiting is dropping off is concerning, especially as the rest of the Pac-12 gains parity.

and regarding injuries:

http://www.donbest.com/ncaaf/injuries/

it would appear that Oregon is not the only team to sustain injuries. so the question then is whether Oregon lacks the depth to handle injuries, or whether Oregon has a tendency to stockpile talent at certain positions (running back, tight end, etc.) leaving an imbalanced roster when injuries do occur. honestly, it looks like a little of both.

[Wizenheimer]

but pretending your belief that an Oregon team that, when healthy, defeated Michigan State, has the same talent level as an Arizona team that struggled against UTSA and Nevada, why is that? .

how many times did MSU sack Mariotta? once IIRC. How many times was he sacked by WSU and AZ...12. It doesn't matter how talented players are if they are injured...that talent isn't on the field. Oregon has lost 10 offensive linemen since the Alamo Bowl. And two starters since the MSU game. Oregon now has 16 total offensive linemen. 10 of those are freshman and 6 are walk-ons. Of the 6 non-freshman, 2 are walk-ons and another is a DLinemen who converted 2 weeks ago. The 5 currently injured OLinemen are a senior, 3 juniors, and a RF freshman

it doesn't matter if Mariotta is more talented then the AZ QB (he is), or if Freeman & Tyner are more talented then the two AZ RB's (debatable). If Mariotta is getting splattered by the pass rush and there are no holes to run through, that talent is nearly useless. There is no position group on a football like the OLine where the "only-strong-as-the-weakest-link" is more applicable

on defense, let's just say that both teams suck, but the Ducks definitely have the least talented defense in a decade, if not longer

besides all that, I didn't respond because you said that Oregon had a little more talent overall. Maybe they do. I responded because you said: "but the Ducks have a huge talent gap over Arizona and failed again to capitalize on it.". I think that's way too homeristic

certainly, the Ducks had opportunities they didn't capitalize on. But they just didn't have any leverage due to talent that I could see, on either side of the ball

I think Chip Kelly is a great coach. But the truth is that Mike Bellotti left the cupboard a lot more full for Chip, then Chip did for Helfrich, especially on defense. Chip won almost all of his games with Bellotti's recruits

[JasonStern]

Oregon has lost 10 offensive linemen since the Alamo Bowl. And two starters since the MSU game. Oregon now has 16 total offensive linemen. 10 of those are freshman and 6 are walk-ons. Of the 6 non-freshman, 2 are walk-ons and another is a DLinemen who converted 2 weeks ago. The 5 currently injured OLinemen are a senior, 3 juniors, and a RF freshman

not that it invalidates your argument, but I'm pretty sure there's some flaws in your stats. for starters, Grasu isn't a walk-on or freshman. Fisher and Stevens are seniors. Johnstone, Yruretagoyena, and Lousi are juniors.

but I guess the bigger question is why the communication between the offensive line players is so bad. Crosby makes sense, being a true freshman, but the rest have at least a year in the system. while some drop off should be expected, the level of drop off Oregon is exhibiting is concerning - not just short term, but also for next season when Grasu, Fisher, and Stevens are gone.

at least Oregon plays UCLA next week. their offensive line is probably the only one worse in the Pac-12.

besides all that, I didn't respond because you said that Oregon had a little more talent overall. Maybe they do. I responded because you said: "but the Ducks have a huge talent gap over Arizona and failed again to capitalize on it.". I think that's way too homeristic

I agree with most of what you said above except this. from a raw talent standpoint, Oregon is superior. there's a reason Mariota, Ekpre-Olomu, Grasu, and Armstead are projected to be high draft picks, whereas Arizona has who? Baucus as their best prospect? again, the problem seems to be a lack of depth and talent being consolidated at a few positions. I'd take Oregon's running backs and tight ends over any other team in college football's, but you start getting away from the skill positions...

equally important, the overall recruiting trend is negative, whereas most of the Pac-12 has been positive. this, in addition to better coaches throughout the league, has helped add to parity that the Pac-12 is experiencing. but if Oregon doesn't turn recruiting around now, it's going to be concerning to see if they can in the future as the Phil Knight advantage starts to fade due to increased television revenues...

I think Chip Kelly is a great coach. But the truth is that Mike Bellotti left the cupboard a lot more full for Chip, then Chip did for Helfrich, especially on defense. Chip won almost all of his games with Bellotti's recruits

no question. but while you can blame Chip Kelly for the dropoff in recruiting, the coaching staff hasn't been shaken up that much. it's no surprise that the offensive line is currently Oregon's weakness, and yet Greatwood was the offensive line coach under Bellotti, as well as Kelly, and now Helfrich. I guess I'm not seeing why you believe that position coaches get a pass for the drop off in recruiting.

[Wizenheimer]

Oregon has lost 10 offensive linemen since the Alamo Bowl. And two starters since the MSU game. Oregon now has 16 total offensive linemen. 10 of those are freshman and 6 are walk-ons. Of the 6 non-freshman, 2 are walk-ons and another is a DLinemen who converted 2 weeks ago. The 5 currently injured OLinemen are a senior, 3 juniors, and a RF freshman

not that it invalidates your argument, but I'm pretty sure there's some flaws in your stats. for starters, Grasu isn't a walk-on or freshman. Fisher and Stevens are seniors. Johnstone, Yruretagoyena, and Lousi are juniors.

that's my fault...I wasn't clear....I was talking about the 16 OLinemen available against Arizona. Fisher, Johnstone, Yruretagoyena, and Lousi are all injured, as is Elijah George

I think Chip Kelly is a great coach. But the truth is that Mike Bellotti left the cupboard a lot more full for Chip, then Chip did for Helfrich, especially on defense. Chip won almost all of his games with Bellotti's recruits

no question. but while you can blame Chip Kelly for the dropoff in recruiting, the coaching staff hasn't been shaken up that much. it's no surprise that the offensive line is currently Oregon's weakness, and yet Greatwood was the offensive line coach under Bellotti, as well as Kelly, and now Helfrich. I guess I'm not seeing why you believe that position coaches get a pass for the drop off in recruiting.

I don't give the position coaches a pass at all. I think some haven't done a great job. But that includes Azzarino who coached the DLine and left with Chip

my point was why was Pellum a lot better at recruiting and dveloping LB's under Mike Bellotti then he was under Chip?

As far as Greatwood, who knows how good the OLine would be if Nick Rowland and James Euscher hadn't been forced into medical retirement. It's hard to overcome stuff like that, especially when the top-5 tackles on the depth chart are all injured at the same time

[JasonStern]

I don't give the position coaches a pass at all. I think some haven't done a great job. But that includes Azzarino who coached the DLine and left with Chip

weird. Armstead/Buckner/Balducci was the one bright side I felt on defense. look in part to the penetration Arizona got after Armstead was injured.

my point was why was Pellum a lot better at recruiting and dveloping LB's under Mike Bellotti then he was under Chip?

he developed them fine under Chip. but the recruiting, plus losing players like Dunmore and Robinson, is definitely cause for concern not just for this season but the upcoming ones. also, one has to wonder if it is in the best interest to have Pellum still coach the inside linebackers while being the defensive coordinator instead of just focusing on the defensive coordinator position.

in Derrick Malone's defense, he's GOAT at touch football.

As far as Greatwood, who knows how good the OLine would be if Nick Rowland and James Euscher hadn't been forced into medical retirement. It's hard to overcome stuff like that, especially when the top-5 tackles on the depth chart are all injured at the same time

the good news is that reports are that Oregon will try to sign five offensive linemen this upcoming offseason. that said, Euscher retired last season, and Johnstone tore his ACL (as a Blazer fan, it's safe to say that's a 12 month recovery), so I'm not seeing why this added effort in recruiting players for the offensive line didn't start last offseason. maybe take on a junior college transfer, as a true frosh likely wouldn't be as good as Crosby, who is exhibiting growing pains...