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trade proposal from Bulls

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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#21 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Sun Nov 8, 2015 5:48 am

Blazinaway wrote:
Dame Lizard wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
if he continues playing like he has for Miami, he'll get a max deal, or close enough to a max deal to be called that. In other words, Damian Lillard money which would fall into the 24-25 million/year range

last season, per36 he averaged 18 points, 15 rebounds and 4 blocks while shooting 63%. This season, so far, in 31 minutes a game, he's averaging 14 points, 11 rebounds, and 4 blocks while shooting 67%.

that's a max contract performance so far


Agreed, Whiteside is getting the max and Miami won't let him go.

Miami found a diamond in the rough, and with Wade and Bosh aging (particularly Wade), they will offer him the max and he has no reason to leave (I'm sure he's thankful for Miami giving him the opportunity).



"Miami won't let him go" has NOTHING to do with it, Whiteside is a UFA and can sign with any team he wants to


Yeah, who wouldn't choose Portland over Miami?
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#22 » by TBpup » Sun Nov 8, 2015 3:58 pm

Agreed with most of the opinions on here that the original is definitely a NO. Rose has a massive contract and is an injury waiting to happen. Right now, he's not even as good as CJ although certainly would be if he was 100% healthy for more than a month or two. Add onto it his huge contract and large usage rate and it doesn't fit with Lillard.

Noah would actually fit quite well I think as a good passer, very good defender and occasional scorer....but they have a decent center now who is a solid rebounder, very good passer and around 1/5 the cost while being a lot younger. The Draft picks aren't worth much so it's really a lot of salary dumb plus Mirotic for CJ. That would completely take away Portland's cap flexibility this season and going forward for not really being that much better.

Pass.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#23 » by Masterfully » Sun Nov 8, 2015 5:22 pm

TBpup sighting!
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#24 » by Dame Lizard » Sun Nov 8, 2015 11:01 pm

Blazinaway wrote:
Dame Lizard wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
if he continues playing like he has for Miami, he'll get a max deal, or close enough to a max deal to be called that. In other words, Damian Lillard money which would fall into the 24-25 million/year range

last season, per36 he averaged 18 points, 15 rebounds and 4 blocks while shooting 63%. This season, so far, in 31 minutes a game, he's averaging 14 points, 11 rebounds, and 4 blocks while shooting 67%.

that's a max contract performance so far


Agreed, Whiteside is getting the max and Miami won't let him go.

Miami found a diamond in the rough, and with Wade and Bosh aging (particularly Wade), they will offer him the max and he has no reason to leave (I'm sure he's thankful for Miami giving him the opportunity).



"Miami won't let him go" has NOTHING to do with it, Whiteside is a UFA and can sign with any team he wants to


Yep I meant "Miami won't let him go" in the sense that they won't muck around and they'll offer him market value straight up imo.

i.e. I don't think they'll risk trying to get him on mates-rates and then end up frustrating Whiteside and his camp to the extent where they want to look elsewhere.

Probably some bad initial wording on my behalf.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#25 » by Wizenheimer » Sun Nov 8, 2015 11:57 pm

Dame Lizard wrote:Probably some bad initial wording on my behalf.


well, at least you didn't say "whilst"

that's an Old English term isn't it? I thought Aussies tried to keep far away from anything British, but maybe you love Shakespeare. Or maybe it's a Scottish word so not so poisonous. Or maybe I'm just another ignorant Yank
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#26 » by art_barbie » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:32 am

Appreciate the feed back.

here's the thing...who exactly do you guys expect to sign next summer? Miami is not letting go of whiteside and there is no way Durant selects Portland. Sorry. Between the weak sauce group of free agents and the fact that you aren't getting white side or durant...what is the plan with you cap space? Spend it on Lillard and CJ. I mean they're both great players imo and certainly worth it but you end up with the exact same team you have right now....which doesn't look like anything more than a 9-10 seed to me. and they both essentially look better on ball...so if

But with Taj, Niko, and Noah you get 3 starter for you front court...obviously you arent getting all 3 of them but you can have 1 and maybe 2 of them.

Niko 6 million (2018)
Noah 13 million (2016)
taj 8.5 million (expires 2017)
Snell 2 million

all 4 on value contracts with Noah's also expiring 2016....so you get the extreme value, legit starters right now...and cap flexibility in the next year or 2 to sign free agents in potentially 2017 where the free agent class is better than this summer.

I'm essentially throwing in Snell.

and throwing in #1 (bulls) and likley #2 pick (sac)

Your Gm would likley want
Niko, Noah, Snell and the 2 picks. Snell is finally getting a chance this year...24 mpg and shooting 46% from 3 on almost 4 attempts per game and is a good defender in the making...with great length-6'8" 8'11" wingspan and standing reach.

bulls Gm would not want to include Niko...and want you to accept taj (a likely deal breaker)


so your getting 3 starters and their Bird rights to go with them...making a combined 20 million right now.

Bulls front office would prefer you take Rose off our hands but we know its not likley...but if you dont jump on the deal above then your just over valuing CJ(which is understandable given his hot start.

sell high? he was only 16, 3, and 2 tonight on -11 right now with a loss to denver...now 4-4

Lillard
Snell
aminu
Niko/leanard
Noah /davis

thats a play off team in the west, but you would need a back up PG and SG. More importantly, thats a team that can draw free agents....durant might want to play with those guys.

but either way I appreciated the feed back...just seeing where you guys (your gm) are at with CJ.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#27 » by The Sebastian Express » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:00 am

art_barbie wrote:Appreciate the feed back.

here's the thing...who exactly do you guys expect to sign next summer? Miami is not letting go of whiteside and there is no way Durant selects Portland. Sorry. Between the weak sauce group of free agents and the fact that you aren't getting white side or durant...what is the plan with you cap space? Spend it on Lillard and CJ. I mean they're both great players imo and certainly worth it but you end up with the exact same team you have right now....which doesn't look like anything more than a 9-10 seed to me. and they both essentially look better on ball...so if

But with Taj, Niko, and Noah you get 3 starter for you front court...obviously you arent getting all 3 of them but you can have 1 and maybe 2 of them.

Niko 6 million (2018)
Noah 13 million (2016)
taj 8.5 million (expires 2017)
Snell 2 million

all 4 on value contracts with Noah's also expiring 2016....so you get the extreme value, legit starters right now...and cap flexibility in the next year or 2 to sign free agents in potentially 2017 where the free agent class is better than this summer.

I'm essentially throwing in Snell.

and throwing in #1 (bulls) and likley #2 pick (sac)

Your Gm would likley want
Niko, Noah, Snell and the 2 picks. Snell is finally getting a chance this year...24 mpg and shooting 46% from 3 on almost 4 attempts per game and is a good defender in the making...with great length-6'8" 8'11" wingspan and standing reach.

bulls Gm would not want to include Niko...and want you to accept taj (a likely deal breaker)


so your getting 3 starters and their Bird rights to go with them...making a combined 20 million right now.

Bulls front office would prefer you take Rose off our hands but we know its not likley...but if you dont jump on the deal above then your just over valuing CJ(which is understandable given his hot start.

sell high? he was only 16, 3, and 2 tonight on -11 right now with a loss to denver...now 4-4

Lillard
Snell
aminu
Niko/leanard
Noah /davis

thats a play off team in the west, but you would need a back up PG and SG. More importantly, thats a team that can draw free agents....durant might want to play with those guys.

but either way I appreciated the feed back...just seeing where you guys (your gm) are at with CJ.


I think realistically we all know we won't get anyone big, but rather spend on complementary players. However, the real issue here is those players you want to trade us would help us win this year. Not much, but too much. Most of us want to be well, terrible this year. WEll - terrible with development and progress shown. We want a top pick. With the roster left after, we don't get a top pick. I really like Niko Mirotic, and would take him over CJ probably every day. But I wouldn't take him over a top 5, 6 pick in 2016.

I think you need to look at it from our perspective and what we did last summer. We could've resigned Matthews and Lopez even though LMA left. We didn't. They treadmill us. The players you want to send us in this trade.. treadmill us. We don't want to be a treadmill team. That's pretty much our nightmare scenario, tbh.

We're all about those competitive losses!
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#28 » by art_barbie » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:50 am

The Sebastian Express wrote:
art_barbie wrote:Appreciate the feed back.

here's the thing...who exactly do you guys expect to sign next summer? Miami is not letting go of whiteside and there is no way Durant selects Portland. Sorry. Between the weak sauce group of free agents and the fact that you aren't getting white side or durant...what is the plan with you cap space? Spend it on Lillard and CJ. I mean they're both great players imo and certainly worth it but you end up with the exact same team you have right now....which doesn't look like anything more than a 9-10 seed to me. and they both essentially look better on ball...so if

But with Taj, Niko, and Noah you get 3 starter for you front court...obviously you arent getting all 3 of them but you can have 1 and maybe 2 of them.

Niko 6 million (2018)
Noah 13 million (2016)
taj 8.5 million (expires 2017)
Snell 2 million

all 4 on value contracts with Noah's also expiring 2016....so you get the extreme value, legit starters right now...and cap flexibility in the next year or 2 to sign free agents in potentially 2017 where the free agent class is better than this summer.

I'm essentially throwing in Snell.

and throwing in #1 (bulls) and likley #2 pick (sac)

Your Gm would likley want
Niko, Noah, Snell and the 2 picks. Snell is finally getting a chance this year...24 mpg and shooting 46% from 3 on almost 4 attempts per game and is a good defender in the making...with great length-6'8" 8'11" wingspan and standing reach.

bulls Gm would not want to include Niko...and want you to accept taj (a likely deal breaker)


so your getting 3 starters and their Bird rights to go with them...making a combined 20 million right now.

Bulls front office would prefer you take Rose off our hands but we know its not likley...but if you dont jump on the deal above then your just over valuing CJ(which is understandable given his hot start.

sell high? he was only 16, 3, and 2 tonight on -11 right now with a loss to denver...now 4-4

Lillard
Snell
aminu
Niko/leanard
Noah /davis

thats a play off team in the west, but you would need a back up PG and SG. More importantly, thats a team that can draw free agents....durant might want to play with those guys.

but either way I appreciated the feed back...just seeing where you guys (your gm) are at with CJ.


I think realistically we all know we won't get anyone big, but rather spend on complementary players. However, the real issue here is those players you want to trade us would help us win this year. Not much, but too much. Most of us want to be well, terrible this year. WEll - terrible with development and progress shown. We want a top pick. With the roster left after, we don't get a top pick. I really like Niko Mirotic, and would take him over CJ probably every day. But I wouldn't take him over a top 5, 6 pick in 2016.

I think you need to look at it from our perspective and what we did last summer. We could've resigned Matthews and Lopez even though LMA left. We didn't. They treadmill us. The players you want to send us in this trade.. treadmill us. We don't want to be a treadmill team. That's pretty much our nightmare scenario, tbh.

We're all about those competitive losses!


niko was 2nd roy last year and has had 4 games 20 and 10ish this year with decent defense....so i dont think our front office is giving him up for CJ but if they did, i dont think you are predictably going to get a better player in the draft...and no offense certainly not your front office (past) that has been notorious for picking the wrong guy. But the current regime at drafting is much better with both lillard and CJ. Either way...getting a stretch 4 as good as Niko is extremely unlikely.

As far as tanking for a pick....you could still do that...flip snell/Noah for picks...play it out with Lillard and Niko-thats about a 30 win team...which (great start aside is where your front office was aiming I believe when they let mathews walk after aldridge left.

But the smart play is keep everyone...it would be a legit 50 win team with a designated elite #1 option in lillard and a nearly elite #2 option in Niko. And a recent and healthy DPOY candidate at C. Solid defender in Snell on the wing. All you need is a back up PG 6th man...and thats why you take Rose...Put Rose in the barbosa role...microwave off the bench and you then have a potential 55-60 win team.

Lillard/Rose
Snell/ ?(you need a 3 and D player here)
Aminu/harkless
Niko/leanard
Noah/ Davis

thats a perennial contender right there over night. And you got draft picks coming if included. So why rebuild at all?? Why draft at all?

Not to be harsh but right now you guys are staring down the barrell of 2-3 30 win seasons in row unless lebron or durant is in the next draft...and your front office makes the right pick...and then you got a new problem...only 1 basketball and lillard, CJ, and a Durant type player all need the ball...where this trade you gives you a clear #2 option that plays off the ball and a DPOY Center, a solid 3 and D wing, and picks...and remain cap flexible...there are no long term bas contracts.

I think 29 out of 30 GM's make this trade...with John Paxson being the only ne. its a no brainer. But I would do it because we are stacked at the 4/5 and desperate for a better scoring PG and CJ looks like that to me.

But I would try to make the deal Noah, taj, Snell, Rose, and our picks for CJ and Ed Davis. I'd get 3rd and 4th teams involved to take on whoever your GM didn't want (perhaps everyone) to swing other assets(picks) you way.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#29 » by The Sebastian Express » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:07 am

Who is going to take Snell and a mostly broken down Noah for picks of any consequence to us?

If Noah, Nikola and Derrick made people a perennial contender for any period of time after, say, the next two years, then you would not be looking to trade them for the package you want in this thread. Because Jimmy Butler is an elite two way player of his own right and in an eastern conference no less.

Noah isn't healthy. He sat today because of his knee, after rumors that he'd be replacing Nikola in the starting lineup no less. His knees are almost shot - his lift is gone. He can make it in the east - he cannot last in the west.

Look. Your best shot at a trade package like this is to a contender or someone who is close to making that leap. We aren't that team.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#30 » by Norm2953 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:21 am

I oftentimes wonder if the team should listen to trade offers for CJ for I believe next summer
he becomes eligible for an extension for he's likely going to want a max contract and I wonder
long term if he's the best fit alongside of Dame.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#31 » by art_barbie » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:24 am

Norm2953 wrote:I oftentimes wonder if the team should listen to trade offers for CJ for I believe next summer
he becomes eligible for an extension for he's likely going to want a max contract and I wonder
long term if he's the best fit alongside of Dame.

thats all im saying...CJ and lillard look like duplicates...that you guys are on your way to paying max money(the new max)...whichs is starting at what 25 million?? half your salalry cap spent on two PG's is what it looks like....dont get me wrong its a good problem to have that Lillard is THAT good and CJ is just about as good as lillard...

Your owner is certainly wealthy and willing to pay the tax I think...so ideally you guys want a trade like this where you obtain bird's rights to as many talented players as possible before you max out lillard next summer and CJ the summer after that because then you wont have enough talent to attract others...and who is going to want to play with 2 guards that want to take 45-50 shots between them?

Anyway...this trade aint happening because I'm offering way more than my GM would actually offer and your GM would take anything less than what i'm offering...but this thread will make our upcoming game a little more interesting. Jimmy Butler and Derrick Rose will likely take this one serious and I expoect Niko, Doug, and snell to all play well in that one as well.

great talent in CJ though...I'm clearly jealous...I just wanted to guage fan/front office likelihood of a deal for CJ...Looks like we're not good trading partners.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#32 » by Dame Lizard » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:18 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
Dame Lizard wrote:Probably some bad initial wording on my behalf.


well, at least you didn't say "whilst"

that's an Old English term isn't it? I thought Aussies tried to keep far away from anything British, but maybe you love Shakespeare. Or maybe it's a Scottish word so not so poisonous. Or maybe I'm just another ignorant Yank


WHILST I don't have enough experience in other countries to comment on their usage of "whilst", Aussies do use that term a lot.

We certainly steer clear from their slang, i.e. we never use "innit bruv?", "chav" or "blimey", but I'm not too sure how much we deviate from their normal lingo.

I respect thy Shakespeare, but this particularly being doesn't precisely favour thee vernacular.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#33 » by Agenda42 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:33 am

art_barbie wrote:Appreciate the feed back.

here's the thing...who exactly do you guys expect to sign next summer?


I expect the Blazers to make more signings like Aminu, Davis, and Harkless. Basically, they'll be looking for diamonds in the rough on budget contracts. I see the Blazers as not thinking about contending for another 3 seasons or so.

art_barbie wrote:Bulls front office would prefer you take Rose off our hands but we know its not likley...but if you dont jump on the deal above then your just over valuing CJ(which is understandable given his hot start.


It's more of a concern over fit and timing than value. I really don't think it's wise for the Blazers to go after Noah. It's time for the Blazers to be patient and stockpile assets.

Don't get me wrong. I think Noah is a fantastic asset to a team that's closer to a championship window than Portland.

art_barbie wrote:Lillard
Snell
aminu
Niko/leanard
Noah /davis

thats a play off team in the west, but you would need a back up PG and SG. More importantly, thats a team that can draw free agents....durant might want to play with those guys.


I think it's unlikely Durant signs with that group. In the event he doesn't, I think this roster has near zero upside.

art_barbie wrote:great talent in CJ though...I'm clearly jealous...I just wanted to guage fan/front office likelihood of a deal for CJ...Looks like we're not good trading partners.


I'd be happy to trade CJ as I don't think a Lillard/CJ team is a contender. I don't think the Bulls are where the Blazers will find the piece they'd want to get here. They'd be looking for a scoring SF or PF in return, someone who could grow into being the second all-star for the team.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#34 » by Dame Lizard » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:18 pm

I'd love for us to go after Festus Ezeli in the offseason.

GSW will be tying big money to Harrison Barnes and with Curry getting the mega-max in the 2017 offseason, they will have a hard-time with cap space.

Of course given Curry's extention will be the year after, they could always sign Festus Ezeli to a big offer sheet and then trade him (or Bogut) later on.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#35 » by Blazinaway » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:35 pm

Dame Lizard wrote:I'd love for us to go after Festus Ezeli in the offseason.

GSW will be tying big money to Harrison Barnes and with Curry getting the mega-max in the 2017 offseason, they will have a hard-time with cap space.

Of course given Curry's extention will be the year after, they could always sign Festus Ezeli to a big offer sheet and then trade him (or Bogut) later on.


Hassan Whiteside is another good option to pursue next summer
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#36 » by Brandon-Clyde » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:51 pm

A couple of things to consider
1) Miami does not have full Bird rights to Whiteside. They will be forced to sign him using cap space. I don't know Miamis cap space next season but it might be possible to outbid them
2) Among players I think Portland could take a look at as free agents next off season are Roy Hibbert,Festus Ezeli, Deron Williams and Harrison Barnes. And as he is a free agent at the end of the season Portland could look at Joakim Noah then as well
3) It seems odd to complain about CJ being a potential max deal when to avoid that we are supposed to take on Derick Rose's supermax deal.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#37 » by monopoman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:19 am

Brandon-Clyde wrote:A couple of things to consider
1) Miami does not have full Bird rights to Whiteside. They will be forced to sign him using cap space. I don't know Miamis cap space next season but it might be possible to outbid them
2) Among players I think Portland could take a look at as free agents next off season are Roy Hibbert,Festus Ezeli, Deron Williams and Harrison Barnes. And as he is a free agent at the end of the season Portland could look at Joakim Noah then as well
3) It seems odd to complain about CJ being a potential max deal when to avoid that we are supposed to take on Derick Rose's supermax deal.


If it's true that Miami doesn't have full bird rights with Whiteside then that would be a great place to make an offer. Worst case scenario is Miami jumps through a bunch of hoops to keep Whiteside. Best case scenario is he takes the larger contract with the Blazers since Miami won't jump through the hoops to keep him.

I also want to mention that CJ will have to show a lot more consistency to really get max contract offers, while he is a good player and has shown he can compete in the NBA he needs to show consistent play like Lillard does. Obviously he doesn't need to do everything Lillard does to get the contract, but if he wants an easy max contract offer he is going to have to show more.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#38 » by HoopsFanAZ » Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:26 pm

1. Well said (above) regarding (at least some Blazers fans) all-in on accepting a ton of losses this year rather than treading water in 8th (and giving up the pick) or getting some help with a 13th pick. Play hard, develop, but lose a lot. Trades in-season have to be about the future, not wins this season.

2. An excellent question posed -- Who are the Blazers to try to sign with cap money next summer? It is a shallow pool of difference making talent for big $$$. And the cap jump makes the competition even tougher. It will be a player's market.

3. The answer? Trades in season to facilitate cap room for others ... especially to get draft picks and young players. Let the early part of the season shake out. See who fits together and in what ways. See the growth. Then be opportunistic, Mr. Olshey, on throw-ins who have larger contracts with this and one more year to get the desired picks/pieces.

4. Ironically, with Leonard's shoulder freeing minutes, we'll get to see even more of what the others can do -- Plumee, Davis, and Vonleh ( ... not Kaman) ... and even Aminu and Harkless. Tough luck for ML, but maybe better long-term.
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Re: trade proposal from Bulls 

Post#39 » by GreenRiddler » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:05 pm

And I thought I was a CJ fan...Seriously though Chicago is not looking to go that kinda route and neither is our GM.

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