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Turner's Upside - Outsider's View

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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#21 » by GreenRiddler » Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:46 am

I still think our best starting 5 is gonna be the one we had last year. I think in the Turner aspect of things his passing and ball handling are gonna be huge for us. I re-watched that LACs series and man we put so much pressure on Dame and CJ to do something for like every single play.

You can go 1 82 game season with that but eventually you are gonna grind them to death. Having Turner initiate offense and create open shots for them will be a great boost to their stamina and shooting from 3. Overall this team is filled with shooters to be feed by Turners passing. I see him averaging 10ppg 4.5Asts 4.5 rebs and a surprising 37% from 3 on limited attempts (3 a game). The much needed unique skills and rising cap make his contract totally worth it in my eyes. I think Crabbe is the guy we are gonna replace with a cheaper stop-gap, sooner rather than later.

I think he will start off the bench in the 2nd unit with CJ and Crabbe. It's gonna make our 2nd unit IMO in the running for the best in the entire league. We just have so many versatile pieces to play in different situations. Plumlee when we need more passing and good rebounding/intangibles. Ezeli when we need grit and rim protection from a 7 footer, ditto for Ed but as a small ball center. Meyers when we need shooting and a Pick and pop threat for Dame and CJ to free the middle of the floor for drives.

Aminu and Harkless have the length of a lot of centers in this league and are athletic and can defend 1-4. Switching PnRs with Griffin in Paul last year was a true relief, as both Aminu and Harkless had the length to defend Blake and the quickness to stay with Paul and not be a horrible mismatch.

Crabbe when we need shooting and deflections in the passing lanes who fits Stoffense like a glove and of course everything revolves around our dynamic duo. This is a roster I can say I have never been more excited/intrigued to watch play together. Multi-dimensional, talented and youthful.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#22 » by Billy » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:45 pm

Due to the way Stotts tends to design his rotations, I am not sure if it will entirely matter of he starts or comes off the bench. The GSW series (and a lot of the LAC series too) exposed what happens when teams blanket CJ and Damian. Teams with multiple elite wings (GSW), or teams with all-NBA defenders (Paul/DJ) had a lot of sustainable success against Portland because of their abilities to take away Portland's strengths.

3 years ago, you had two playmakers: Dame and Mo. The last two years, you had 2: Dame and CJ. I think whether they all start together, or one comes off the bench, they are all going to play a lot of minutes together. At the same time, Portland absolutely needs all 3 to also play separately. Ideally Portland will be able to muster a full 48 minutes with a good playmaker on the court, and ideally 2.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#23 » by Wizenheimer » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:56 pm

Billy wrote:3 years ago, you had two playmakers: Dame and Mo. The last two years, you had 2: Dame and CJ.


actually, 2 years ago Portland had Batum & Steve Blake as secondary playmakers, both much better at the task then CJ

which brings up the question...has Blake signed with any team yet? he might be available!... :wink:
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#24 » by PDX MM » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:25 pm

Blake is currently on the Pistons roster.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#25 » by Wizenheimer » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:57 pm

PDX MM wrote:Blake is currently on the Pistons roster.


Detroit renounced his rights to clear enough space to sign Marjanovic; maybe they re-signed him later but he's not listed on any Detroit payroll list that I can find

by the way, that was sarcasm when I mentioned Blake, although if Portland signed him then traded him before the deadline, that would be the 4th time the Blazers traded him. It would almost be worth it just for that
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#26 » by PDX MM » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:21 am

Wizenheimer wrote:
PDX MM wrote:Blake is currently on the Pistons roster.


Detroit renounced his rights to clear enough space to sign Marjanovic; maybe they re-signed him later but he's not listed on any Detroit payroll list that I can find

by the way, that was sarcasm when I mentioned Blake, although if Portland signed him then traded him before the deadline, that would be the 4th time the Blazers traded him. It would almost be worth it just for that


Oh he is still listed on a couple of rosters I looked at but they are probably not up to date. And yep I know it was sarcasm and I actually started to say something along the same lines about trading for him and then dealing him at the deadline. I wonder if that would be some kind of record, getting traded by the same team 4 times.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#27 » by 76ciology » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:36 am

6th man role who can play some defense, create and take mid range shots similar to Shaun Livington.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#28 » by Billy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:42 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
Billy wrote:3 years ago, you had two playmakers: Dame and Mo. The last two years, you had 2: Dame and CJ.


actually, 2 years ago Portland had Batum & Steve Blake as secondary playmakers, both much better at the task then CJ

which brings up the question...has Blake signed with any team yet? he might be available!... :wink:


I can see your point, but I am not sure I'd include Blake ;). Batum definitely did help with initiation of the offense, but he also was little threat to score on his own. At least consistency-wise, Batum did not lend himself to being the primary ball handler on the floor for long stretches. In the case of Dame, CJ, Mo, and hopefully Turner, all of them seem capable of involving others, but also finding their own shot without someone creating for them.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#29 » by Billy » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:02 pm

Gah. I think this is our fault. We said his name three times in this thread.

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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#30 » by Village Idiot » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:40 am

Turner has two very clear limitations, he can't shoot outside of 15 feet and he is highly unproductive if he has to take multiple dribbles before a shot. He is very strong from 15 fee and in. He has a strong pull-up jumper, is outstanding off of a couple of dribbles from 15 feet and in, and has very solid post moves.

I can see Turner finding a couple of very clear roles on this team where Stott's sets will mitigate his weaknesses and amplify his strengths. If you look at our C set with two guards out top, two players in the high-post/elbow and one player who starts in the corner, I can see both Plumlee and Turner punishing other teams with their ability to get the ball in the high post and take it to the basket. In the C we use the zipper screen to get a guard or the corner guy an open three. It's a hard play for defenders to hedge because if they play the 3 Turner and Plumlee can dive and score directly or dish for an open 3 if they meet resistance. There is another set (which I don't remember the name of, please assist) where we commonly have Plumlee in the post, Harkless or Aminu in the slot to corner three spot, and three wings out with one getting a pick and roll with Plumlee and the slot sneaking under for the dish. I can definitely see Turner taking over in the high post spot and Plumlee going to the slot where he excelled for the Nets.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#31 » by DaVoiceMaster » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:56 pm

Billy wrote:Gah. I think this is our fault. We said his name three times in this thread.

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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#32 » by voodooguru » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Turner's upside is Super Andre Miller From 'Dre's Portland Years.

His X-Factor is his ability to defend 2.5 positions. Just wait until you see him on LeBron this year. :o :noway: :o

He finished every close or close-ish game that the Celtics played. As evidenced by his quote about searching Brad Stevens' locker for drugs when he was told he wouldn't start anymore - he came off the pine for team balance. See above - Isaiah Thomas deferred to ET.

Sam Hinkie drove ET to the airport when he left Philly because Hinkie knew that Doug Collins had ruined ET's early NBA career by playing him out of position.

His next super-brief and totally ignorable stop was Insane-diana. He had a fight in practice with Lance, reportedly over Lance dissing Big Softee Hibbert about something that others have discussed. Lance. In the year that Hibbert looked like a zombie, consigned to the pine in the playoffs, utterly and completely useless and ineffectual. There's rumours but that's OT. Lance

Boston players have consistently said that ET was a great locker room guy and a team leader. See my OP for what Homer H. Heinsohn thought about ET last year.

Breakout at 27 though?

The Blazers are the best team that he has played on and he's [finally] re-established himself as a point forward, not Dizzy Doug Collins' catch and shoot 3rd option, standing in the parking lot with his hand raised. I see his skills as perfectly matched to what you need. His D and ability to score down the stretch are both above average.

You're ET's second team. Like Andre, he hardly ever misses. Hardly ever. Is 'Dre still balling or is he a 40 year-old free agent who was a Spur last year and just might get picked up again?

Breakout. A big Miller with boards, strong D and more magic per dime.

Hope I'm right. Oh yeah - all this is predicated on him starting at SF.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#33 » by TBFan4Life » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:56 pm

Sometimes talented players "break out" later in their careers. Chauncey Billups was 28 at Detroit before he took his game to another level.... so it *could* happen for ET. Not saying it will, but it certainly is possible.... the talent is clearly there.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#34 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Sat Oct 1, 2016 12:58 am

I think Turner is such a fantastic fit, both on the court and in the lockerroom, and Stotts a good enough coach that Turner should at least match his production in Boston. I'm hoping our spacing rubs off on Turner and he can get back to the 30% from 3 he shot early in his career.

Regarding the Andre Miller comp... if Turner can ever score 52 for us in a game, a lot of people are going to be eating crow.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#35 » by Norm2953 » Sat Oct 1, 2016 4:42 am

Most of us thought he would be a good fit but $70 million over 4 years is too much.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#36 » by bigdavid » Sat Oct 1, 2016 4:16 pm

I have followed Turner since his college days. He had great potential coming out but was misused by Collins in Philly. Any time Turner made a mistake Collins yanked him. This is no way to bring a rookie along.Turner is a natural point guard, sees the floor extremely well and is a great passer and rebounder.

He will do well in Portland and I will be rooting for him. This is my first chance to post on this board but I am staying. Good luck all.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#37 » by voodooguru » Sun Oct 2, 2016 7:19 am

bigdavid wrote:I have followed Turner since his college days. He had great potential coming out but was misused by Collins in Philly.


[Preseason!]

Misused and psycho-illogically abused!

The following won't change anyone's mind about EMT's potential upside, but this is another long-term Turner watcher's take on his [time] in Philly.

Posted on the Boston page a while ago :

I'm a Sixers phan who, as a young vinnie del, saw Wilt Chamberlain play for both the Philadelphia Warriors and the Philadelphia 76ers.

The one "thing" missin' from y'alls ET debate is Doug Collins. If you want me to do the research on Doug's overbearing, hyper-emotional, failed stints in Chicago, DETROIT, and Washington I will. I do believe that some guy named Michael Jordan once said that Doug Collins cried e'ry day.

My one-fan's-opinion might sound, in part, crazy, but this is it, summarized :

1. Doug Collins intentionally ruined ET's development. Doug is real close with Jrue Holiday's daddy and Doug was determined to make Jrue The Man in Illadelphia. Jrue's daddy, Jrue and Doug are all 24-7-365 Christians, which deepened Doug's devotion to making Jrue a star (the crazy part?). ET was a Number Two pick on-baller who could easily crash Doug's donkey cart.

2 Doug didn't want ET coming out of college, he wanted a big. That was fair enough, but the GM (Stiff-phan-ski?) took the BPA, ET.

3. ET recently said that anyone who tries to make him a catch and shoot player is no genius. That's exactly what Doug did. Exclusively. On 75ish% of offensive sets he had ET come down the court and plant himself behind the arc in the corner and raise his hand if he was open. It's true, he had Holiday and some Iguodala to initiate his "offence", but thanks to your coach, you guys already know how effective ET can be on the ball.

4. I'm not saying that ET would have made a better PG than Jrue, but dang - ET had just won the NCAA MVP playing on the ball, you'd think he'd get some time there. Jrue would have been better at SG than PG, but Doug wanted him to have the spotlight, exclusively

5. I don't remember exactly when it was but there was a stretch of 4 games, coinciding with a rare (only?) trip to Philly by ET's "agent", where ET spent most of the games at PG on offence. The team won three of four, scored over a century in 3 and 90+ in the othe. Everybody (ET, Holiday and Enigmadala) got theirs. In the fifth game Evan was back in the corner (for the duration) waving his hand. Predicatbly, the losing, losing, losing recommenced and Doug got fired [EDIT-resigned before he got fired] from his final coaching job.

Right from the beginning Doug would bench ET after every mistake and after virtually every little run of form. Compare John "Two Major Injuries" Wall's career minutes with Evan's, and while you're there compare their shooting percentage. Don't worry about "Brick" Wall's turnovers, Evan has yet to spend any significant time on the ball like Wall.

If anything good came out of the Reverend Doctor Doogie Wowser, NBA Coach/Couch's utterly cactus approach to ET, it's that Evan can probably hit the trey at at a break even percentage, he has a money stop and pop on the baseline, and he can play some decent SF. My ideal perimeter for Philly was ET - PG/SF, Jrue SG/PG and Enigmadala SF/PtF (o-f-o).

In a way, the Celtics are ET's first team. Your coach knows his game. As an old-arsed Philly phan I'd venture to say that in spite of his ill treatment in "'Illy", he's still got what could end up as Ye Olde Celtics[/Blazin' Portlandia] Spirit.


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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#38 » by voodooguru » Sun Oct 2, 2016 8:08 am

I found another exchange from the same thread that is only of interest because it's offseason.

[Preseason] Semi-OT Gossip Post :

Boston poster 1 : Why didn't it work out in Indiana?

Boston poster 2 : Excellent, valid question.

ET went into a situation in Indiana that was toxic and hostile for a couple of reasons.

First, he was NOT Danny Granger. Granger was the glue and veteran presence that held that locker room together, not David West (and I know I'm biased against West because I'm still bummed he didn't come here, where he could have made a championship difference for us). In addition, Paul George, Granger's heir apparent, idolized Granger. George was angry that Granger was no longer there, so the locker-room was not exactly a welcoming place for Turner, right off the bat. Add that to Turner being in direct competition with another George favorite, Sir Lance, for minutes with both being in a contract year, and the friction increases.


Second, since the locker-room lack of cohesion showed itself in Indiana's precipitous drop off in play at the end of last season, tempers were very short all-around come playoff time.

In a pre-playoff game practice, Sir Lance (the real gentleman that he isn't) allegedly called out Hibbert in front of everyone about his poor play, saying that Hibbert was bum-sore because "Catfish" George was banging Hibberts girlfriend. ET, the class act and gentleman that he IS, stood up to Stevenson, defending Hibbert, and the fists started flying and the blood literally and figuratively flowed.

The Pacers bled out in the playoffs.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#39 » by Kids Are Alright » Sat Oct 8, 2016 6:45 am

DusterBuster wrote:
phillybird wrote:I'd look at him like a poor man's Brandon Roy for you guys. He's like a 6th man version of him basically


I believe that's pretty much what everyone is thinking.

Brad Stevens had some glowing things to say about Turner today though:

Stevens admitted there’s a noticeable chasm for the Celtics, both on their second unit and in late-game lineups, with the departure of Evan Turner. “That’s going to be a tough role to fill. He was a heck of a player for us,” Stevens said. “He made huge plays at the end of games. He made big, big shots. His shooting percentages were not always great but, when the game was on the line and the clock was winding down, you felt like it had a good chance of going in. He made free throws late in games and he guarded two or three positions. Time will tell; we’ll find out. We’ve got a lot of guys that will get an opportunity to step up and fill his void, but it is a void.” – via ESPN


Anyone who's watched Turner for a lot of his career, why is his shooting percentages so bad? Just totally broken shooting mechanics?


ET has the world's flattest pull-up jumper ever, so it's going to drop or not, a lot of rimming out off the back.
I was his biggest fan on the board I think at Boston, but he had some stinker games, whereas most guys at Turner's level have stinker quarters. He's like Pierce in that he's got to have the ball in his hands and like Steven's said, he takes over games down the stretch with repeated big plays.
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Re: Turner's Upside - Outsider's View 

Post#40 » by Downtown » Sat Oct 8, 2016 7:16 pm

Kids Are Alright wrote:He's like Pierce in that he's got to have the ball in his hands and like Steven's said, he takes over games down the stretch with repeated big plays.


One of the trademarks of the Blazers success last season was how well they stepped up in fourth quarters. Usually it was "Lillard Time", so having another player that comes on big down the stretch gives the team even more of that important ingredient.

So if the above is all correct then I see Turner at small forward to close out games. I also see a continuing new trend as we've heard Lillard is liking playing off the ball. If it does become reality I also like it because with Lillard, McCollum, and Turner there should be less tendency for Aminu to dribble late in games and instead he can work off ball for either a cutting play or a longer range shot.

I can see how it would work although it would also mean they would be a little smaller so they would have to work harder for rebounds, which both Davis and Plumlee did so well late in games last season, especially on offence for second chance looks.

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