Rumor: Hinrich to Blazers

[Andre 2999]

It KP really turned down that trade, I will now only consider him a amazing GM rather than a diety GM.

I haven't been paying super close attention lately, but I'm pretty sure that Nets fans have been somewhat disappointed by Harris thus far in the season.

[87BlazerMan]

Do the trade and do it NOW! As long as we can be sure that Hinrich will eventually return to his original form I see no reason to stall til the deadline. I've always thought that Blake would be a great back-up PG for us and this is a deal where we bring in a damn good PG and still hang on to our current starter. Not only that, but it clears room for a while (while Kirk heals) to give Jay Bay some actual PT.

The only hesitation is the fact that we don't know what Raef's contract could net us at the deadline or in the offseason. I'm willing to never find out...

[nikolokolus]

It KP really turned down that trade, I will now only consider him a amazing GM rather than a diety GM.

I haven't been paying super close attention lately, but I'm pretty sure that Nets fans have been somewhat disappointed by Harris thus far in the season.

Uh ... No.

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129340

[NBAMAN2006]

I seriously doubt Raef's contract could net us a better deal. People will point to Pau last season, but that was an extremley rare occourance.

This deal would also make Blake expendable, allowing us to renounce him this offseason (I believe he is set to make a little more than 4.5M for 09/10). So, you can deduct the 09/10 salaries. Blake at 4.5 from Kirk's 9.5M, and it really comes out that this deal only adds 5M to our overall cap plan in guaranteed contracts.

[Norm2953]

I'm ambivalent over moving Sergio in this deal for I would be concerned about the affect
it would have on Rudy this early in the season. If we move Sergio and Raef for Hinrich,
let it be sometime just before the trade deadline.

From a basketball point of view, the trade would be an upgrade at PG for as NBA man 2006
points out, it would indeed allow us to renounce Blake but think about which guy do we
want starting alongside of Roy. We have to think about future starting lineups for if we
think Bayless is going to an important member of our team eventually, adding a Hinrich
who's signed through 2012 would not allow us to see whether Bayless is Roy's best
partner in the back court. If Bayless beats him out in 2 years, we will have a guy making
$8 Million as our back up PG. Having a nice steady guy like Blake is not a bad thing
for he would be useful as a fourth guard when Bayless is ready for I remember what
happened the last time we got rid of Blake.

[DanTown8587]

Something that hasn't really been said but is a huge thing in acquiring Hinrich: he can guard either PG or SG, so your team defense is greatly improved by having Roy/Fernandez not having to chase guys around and in the West, all of the really good teams have a top level SG or PG and if you do make the playoffs, that is where the value of Hinrich over Blake would show. And like someone said, Hinrich is owed 26.5 million over the next three years and if you remove assume they keep Blake if they don't make the deal, then its 22 million over three years, not a bad deal for a guy who can seriously make you a better basketball team.

And I do like Kirk, but in Chicago he doesn't fit with Rose, so getting an expiring deal to eliminate his deal is all I ask for.

And finally, though I am not a Blazer fan, I never really believed they were players in the upcoming FA season. They need help at the PG and SF spots (clearly Roy/Fernadez/Aldridge/Oden got the SG/PF/C positions covered) and the best FA are either terrible fits (Artest, Odom) or aging (Marion, Kidd, Miller, Bibby). I just assumed Kirk would be a Blazer in 09-10 in a summer deal (kirk for a #1 on draft night was my hope) but this way you can get him for this playoff run too.

PS I think with the injury to Hinrich, the Blazers and Bulls could very well have agreed to this and Portland is waiting to see if they can use LaFrentz and their other assets to acquire a superstar. If they can't, they have this deal to fall back on.

[Wizenheimer]

ESPN was all over it, they were reporting the deal that was on the table.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3223513

Harris was hurt (lowest value) and Travis was the buzz of the league (highest value). Was Outlaw not worth it to upgrade Jack to Harris and Frye to Bass?

if the trade was actually (as is implied) outlaw, frye, jack, & sergio for Harris & Bass, then yes, KP probably did make a mistake. Keep in mind, that even though jack was despised here, and frye has been generally meh, that trade would have seriously depleted the blazers depth at a time when the playoffs were looking like a possibility and Harris was injured and not playing. Tis all assumes. of course, that the rumor was true and not something being leaked by Rod Thorn to amp up Kidd's value.

[mojomarc]

ESPN was all over it, they were reporting the deal that was on the table.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3223513

Harris was hurt (lowest value) and Travis was the buzz of the league (highest value). Was Outlaw not worth it to upgrade Jack to Harris and Frye to Bass?

if the trade was actually (as is implied) outlaw, frye, jack, & sergio for Harris & Bass, then yes, KP probably did make a mistake. Keep in mind, that even though jack was despised here, and frye has been generally meh, that trade would have seriously depleted the blazers depth at a time when the playoffs were looking like a possibility and Harris was injured and not playing. Tis all assumes. of course, that the rumor was true and not something being leaked by Rod Thorn to amp up Kidd's value.

Good point. I don't remember Pup or Discovery saying any of their sources had an inkling that this was a serious deal, so it could very well have been Thorn trying to squeeze anything he could out of a washed up Kidd. My memory is a little hazy, so if Pup can come clean on this one since it is so far in the past it might clear up my confusion. What we do know for sure is: 1) NJ really wanted to dump Kidd for any value they could get; 2) there were rumors all over the place, including a few that I may just be imagining but somehow I remember involving Kidd ending up in Portland; and 3) all we ever heard about Portland's involvement was anonymous sources being quoted (wasn't Vecsey the prime driver in the rumors on the news side?) but you didn't hear anything much out of KP about it other than to say he was working the phones early in the season, but when asked specifically on the Kidd trade Marc Stein reported that KP said "we're not making any trades." Thorn, on the other hand, went public on offers being made a couple of times, so it does lend credence that he was trying to start a bidding war with one party interested.

[Village Idiot]

Hinrich is certainly an upgrade over Blake, at least defensively. He has a reasonable salary which declines per year. That's a posiitve.

I'm pretty sure that if this trade were made Blake and Outlaw/Frye and possibly Ike would be on the way out for a veteran SF like Marion or Gerald Wallace.

[JD45]

I love he idea of getting Hinrich.

Hinrich is Blake with defense. His weakness is his shot creation, but the Blazers have plenty of guys who can do that. Both Blake and Hinrich are career 38% 3pt shooters so their role in the offense will stay the same.

Hinrich is out for 2.5 months, but that still gets him back by mid-February, with plenty of time to get ready for the playoffs. And because it is a hand injury, he can do a lot of conditioning work, so he stays in shape. I suspect that after the first month or so he might even be able to practice on defense, so he learns the system.

While he is out, Bayless gets minutes as backup PG, which he needs. And when Hinrich returns, the defense improves. PG defense is the Blazers weak spot now. And if Hinrich and Bayless work out, Blake can be let go this summer to cut costs if they want. Hinrich and Bayless should substantially improve the defense over Blake/Sergio.

And Hinrich is soon to be 28. Which is perfect. He is in his prime, but 8 years older than Bayless. It would be natural for Bayless to be the backup for a few years and for them to switch roles. No tension as two young PGs battle for minutes.

And finally, I don't see anyone to use free agent money on this Summer. Hinrich is really the only realistic PG upgrade available, so lets do it now.

[kumquat]

If we get Hinrich and it kills our cap, I want Nocioni to come along too.

[cucad8]

I don't mind getting Nocioni, if we are killing our cap. My concern is, that pushes two of our SFs deep to the bench. Unless you use Outlaw at backup PF, and go

Hinrich/Blake/Bayless
Roy/Rudy
Nocioni/Webster/Batum
Aldridge/Outlaw/Frye
Oden/Przybilla

Ike, Raef, and Sergio works salary wise for Nocioni and Hinrich.

Maybe at the deadline you look to make anothe rmove, potentially, involving Frye, Blake, Kopo, Outlaw, Webster, Batum, or our pick in some combination to a team who is scrapping their efforts for the season, and are just looking to get some younger prospects for a player.
I dunno, fun to talk about.
The more I think about it, the more I think we will see KP wait until the trade deadline, just in case a better player came available, but I am not opposed to going out and getting Hinrich now if he sees it as the best option for us.

[TBpup]

TBpup, You said in a thread that "Someone you like will have to go..." So, do you have any info or think this is legit?

The Hinrich to Portland speculation has been going on and on for a while, to the point where it lost credibility, but with Rose's play you have to wonder.

Soulyss...there have been discussions but nothing concrete yet. It is very rare for a trade to take place when a player is injured because the accepting team would basically have to waive the physical. If it were to happen, it would create quite a duplication at PG where Hinrich and Blake are quite similar with varying degrees of ability. It's like haveing LMA and Frye at PF....neither is 'power' or a tough rebounder and the strength of both is on the perimeter.

It would be tough to see Sergio go just because he is such a change of pace player and provides a unique ability that no one else on the team can....the perfect backup and contrast at PG who fits very well with the 2nd unit.

There are also the cap considerations as KP would have to decide that Kirk was a major missing piece. It would tighten up the cap flexibility or they would have to just let several contracts just run out and you would be left with just 5-6 players and ver little depth.

Mojo....as for the Harris/Kidd trade, Portland made overtures at being involved in a 3-team deal but KP wasn't happy with what was being asked for the Blazers to be involved. KP did like Harris and was trying to get him for good value before he matured as a player.

[Wizenheimer]

If we get Hinrich and it kills our cap, I want Nocioni to come along too.

it wouldn't kill the cap-space if Blake was not on the roster come summer.

with Hinrich added to the other contracts (other then blake & Diogu), the team salary would be about 43.8 million (10 players). Bump that to about 45 million for automatic cap-holds for 12 roster spots (although with four 2nd round picks the blazers could have a couple of player at rookie minimums)

then, if you assume a salary cap of 57-61 million, Portland could have 12-16 million in cap-space. It's not enough to sign a max contract player, but it's not likely portland would want one with roy, aldridge, & oden being in line for extensions. It would be enough space to pursue a player like Turkoglu, and it's certainly enough space to be major leverage in a trade.

of course, it all assumes Miles does not play. But that Miles situation coupled with Hinrich's injury would make this a deal more likely to happen close to the trade deadline. There could be some kind of tentative deal in principle in place right now, contingent on a few factors. For portland, the closer to the trade deadline it gets, the safer they would be going for an injured player...who should be recovered by the deadline. Furthermore, if Miles hasn't signed with a team by then it's very unlikely he will be signed with that 10 game suspension hanging over his head, and the fact it would have to be a guaranteed contract.

[Billy]

Thanks for the info TBPup.

I definitely agree with what you're saying in terms of duplication and how losing Sergio removes some of the change of pace that Portland has. I think Hinrich could fit well under McMillan, but I think having parts that are complimentary rather than a duplication is important. I suppose in the event that Portland did obtain Kirk, they would be able to let Blake walk and start grooming Bayless slowly in that backup spot--that does have a benefit I suppose.

[Wizenheimer]

.

Mojo....[color=#0000FF]as for the Harris/Kidd trade, Portland made overtures at being involved in a 3-team deal but KP wasn't happy with what was being asked for the Blazers to be involved. KP did like Harris and was trying to get him for good value before he matured as a player.

well...that train has left the station considering the season he's having so far

[Tim Lehrbach]

I posted on page one but never replied to those who asked how I thought we could get a better deal.

Hinrich has been one of my favorite players in the past, and I could surely get behind him again, even though I was disappointed by his part in Chicago's disastrous 2007-2008 season. I have spoken for and against bringing him in depending on my mood. Today, I'm not opposed to the deal, but I'd like it to be a little bit better. The way I'd do this is by taking Sergio out of the deal.

LaFrentz and Blake for Hinrich, Simmons, and Gray.

Blake is better than Sergio, but Hinrich completely replaces and upgrades Blake's abilities (except maybe deep shooting, but we're well covered there). What Hinrich doesn't bring to the table is dribble penetration, and that's Sergio's signature. If we trade Sergio for Hinrich we give up the option to throw in a guy who can break down defenders and dish when the offense isn't working. Sergio is improving, too: shooting efficiency is up (from abysmal to bad, but still...), assists are up, turnovers are down, and he's rebounding at a terrific rate for a slight guard. Plus, Sergio is under contract at a bargain rate next season. He is an imperfect bench player, but he guards against the problem I've warned against in some Hinrich threads, that Hinrich doesn't solve the lone problem in our offense of creating buckets off dribble penetration by somebody other than Roy.

Switching Blake for Sergio shouldn't be a problem for Chicago because Blake is more reliable than Sergio, anyway. If it is a problem, well, they're not in a position to bargain. They don't need Hinrich and get to save millions of dollars by moving him.

[cucad8]

Switching Blake for Sergio makes Sergio our starting PG for the next two months. I think we have a very good shot to make the playoffs this year, and switching to Sergio as our starter, or Bayless, right now is probably not the best way to further those plans. Unless we are just holding off until February, which obviously changes that.

[Wizenheimer]

I posted on page one but never replied to those who asked how I thought we could get a better deal.

Hinrich has been one of my favorite players in the past, and I could surely get behind him again, even though I was disappointed by his part in Chicago's disastrous 2007-2008 season. I have spoken for and against bringing him in depending on my mood. Today, I'm not opposed to the deal, but I'd like it to be a little bit better. The way I'd do this is by taking Sergio out of the deal.

LaFrentz and Blake for Hinrich, Simmons, and Gray.

Blake is better than Sergio, but Hinrich completely replaces and upgrades Blake's abilities (except maybe deep shooting, but we're well covered there). What Hinrich doesn't bring to the table is dribble penetration, and that's Sergio's signature. If we trade Sergio for Hinrich we give up the option to throw in a guy who can break down defenders and dish when the offense isn't working. Sergio is improving, too: shooting efficiency is up (from abysmal to bad, but still...), assists are up, turnovers are down, and he's rebounding at a terrific rate for a slight guard. Plus, Sergio is under contract at a bargain rate next season. He is an imperfect bench player, but he guards against the problem I've warned against in some Hinrich threads, that Hinrich doesn't solve the lone problem in our offense of creating buckets off dribble penetration by somebody other than Roy.

Switching Blake for Sergio shouldn't be a problem for Chicago because Blake is more reliable than Sergio, anyway. If it is a problem, well, they're not in a position to bargain. They don't need Hinrich and get to save millions of dollars by moving him.

then that would have to be a near deadline deal. Hinrich isn't scheduled to return till around the 1st of Feb. Leaving Sergion and Bayless as the only 2 point guards for the next 10-11 weeks would pretty much guarantee another visit to the lottery for portland.

[Butter]

I posted on page one but never replied to those who asked how I thought we could get a better deal.

Hinrich has been one of my favorite players in the past, and I could surely get behind him again, even though I was disappointed by his part in Chicago's disastrous 2007-2008 season. I have spoken for and against bringing him in depending on my mood. Today, I'm not opposed to the deal, but I'd like it to be a little bit better. The way I'd do this is by taking Sergio out of the deal.

LaFrentz and Blake for Hinrich, Simmons, and Gray.

Blake is better than Sergio, but Hinrich completely replaces and upgrades Blake's abilities (except maybe deep shooting, but we're well covered there). What Hinrich doesn't bring to the table is dribble penetration, and that's Sergio's signature. If we trade Sergio for Hinrich we give up the option to throw in a guy who can break down defenders and dish when the offense isn't working. Sergio is improving, too: shooting efficiency is up (from abysmal to bad, but still...), assists are up, turnovers are down, and he's rebounding at a terrific rate for a slight guard. Plus, Sergio is under contract at a bargain rate next season. He is an imperfect bench player, but he guards against the problem I've warned against in some Hinrich threads, that Hinrich doesn't solve the lone problem in our offense of creating buckets off dribble penetration by somebody other than Roy.

Switching Blake for Sergio shouldn't be a problem for Chicago because Blake is more reliable than Sergio, anyway. If it is a problem, well, they're not in a position to bargain. They don't need Hinrich and get to save millions of dollars by moving him.

I totally agree with your entire post.

-Lack of dribble penetration from Hinrich and Blake (causing the comparison)
-Sergio's value on this team (change of pace & Rudy's buddy)

*** Blake substituted for Sergio
-It seems like this would be a better fit for Chicago anyways as Blake would be a veteran behind Rose. As solid as Rose looks to be, it is always nice to have a legit veteran on the team. This would suggest that this deal wouldn't happen until after Hinrich is healthy enough to play.