What's Gay worth?

[SacKingZZZ]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

I was thinking through possibilities and there could always be a chance that someone might be willing to eat Williams final year and give the Kings some space either before the FA period or at the deadline. That could ease the pain of re-signing IT. Kind of like how the Warriors were able to clear some contracts for Iggy. Problem is usually with deals like that you have send something else their way to do it but maybe there is a team enticed by what little aura of significant potential DWill has left? Smart money would have been to put Williams at PF for the last few months and hope he exploded but they didn't do that. Too late now.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

That's what gives us the option on IT, how are you going to clear next season if you want to add 10 million + talent?

And our draft picks value is also peak right now.

You have a what coin flips chance of getting real talent in the draft at 7-8? I'd rather be a 100% sure and dump salary to sign someone at 10+ million in free agency, RFA, or through trade acquisition.

If we did this, all we would need were role players on near minimum contracts to be competitive.

Even if the draft pick works out, you still have those terrible contracts prohibiting you from being able to do much of anything unless you do not want to resign Gay.

If the Kings re-sign Gay to around 14 million or so they will have some space the summer after this one. That's why they need to make sure whoever or whatever they draft has or at least maintains some value in a potential sign and trade.

The more I look at this situation the more it seems like the Kings will be forced into making some kind of major move with the assets they do have. Namely this years draft pick.

[blind prophet]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

That's what gives us the option on IT, how are you going to clear next season if you want to add 10 million + talent?

And our draft picks value is also peak right now.

You have a what coin flips chance of getting real talent in the draft at 7-8? I'd rather be a 100% sure and dump salary to sign someone at 10+ million in free agency, RFA, or through trade acquisition.

If we did this, all we would need were role players on near minimum contracts to be competitive.

Even if the draft pick works out, you still have those terrible contracts prohibiting you from being able to do much of anything unless you do not want to resign Gay.

If the Kings re-sign Gay to around 14 million or so they will have some space the summer after this one. That's why they need to make sure whoever or whatever they draft has or at least maintains some value in a potential sign and trade.

The more I look at this situation the more it seems like the Kings will be forced into making some kind of major move with the assets they do have. Namely this years draft pick.

They have to trust their scouts and coach with this one.

They need to be real clear, unless Malone and the scouts etc feel like the person they draft almost for certain will be a stud, then they should move it.

I give them that out, if they believe it. But if they are not 100% sold, well lets sell high, dump some salary, possibly get a cheap asset as well and look to restructure big time a season from now.

[pillwenney]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

That's what gives us the option on IT, how are you going to clear next season if you want to add 10 million + talent?

And our draft picks value is also peak right now.

You have a what coin flips chance of getting real talent in the draft at 7-8? I'd rather be a 100% sure and dump salary to sign someone at 10+ million in free agency, RFA, or through trade acquisition.

If we did this, all we would need were role players on near minimum contracts to be competitive.

Even if the draft pick works out, you still have those terrible contracts prohibiting you from being able to do much of anything unless you do not want to resign Gay.

Or we can not rely on Sacramento's historically inadequate ability to sign outside free agents, and instead package that pick with less crappy contracts for a player that we can force to play here. That's another option.

But even if we were able to clear off both JT and Landry, unless A) Gay opts out and re-signs for cheaper, or B) We decide to not attempt to re-sign Isaiah, we're not left with all that much cap space.

If we can dump just one of them by then without using our pick, we'd also have cap space the summer that follows. And we could do that while keeping our pick, IMO.

I'm just saying we have better options out there. And looking to move Landry right now makes absolutely zero sense.

[pillwenney]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

I was thinking through possibilities and there could always be a chance that someone might be willing to eat Williams final year and give the Kings some space either before the FA period or at the deadline. That could ease the pain of re-signing IT. Kind of like how the Warriors were able to clear some contracts for Iggy. Problem is usually with deals like that you have send something else their way to do it but maybe there is a team enticed by what little aura of significant potential DWill has left? Smart money would have been to put Williams at PF for the last few months and hope he exploded but they didn't do that. Too late now.

The more I look at Williams, the more I just don't really like him. He often shows half-assed effort on both ends and takes too many jumpers, rendering his ample penetration abilities useless. I think he lacks the necessary motivation to reach his potential.

I do think he'd be our best bet though in terms of clearing salary--especially since next year is a contract year for him, and he is exactly the kind of guy who may try playing up to a contract year.

If we have to move something with him, it shouldn't be that much. Certainly not a mid-lotto pick in what is being said to be a very strong draft.

[blind prophet]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

That's what gives us the option on IT, how are you going to clear next season if you want to add 10 million + talent?

And our draft picks value is also peak right now.

You have a what coin flips chance of getting real talent in the draft at 7-8? I'd rather be a 100% sure and dump salary to sign someone at 10+ million in free agency, RFA, or through trade acquisition.

If we did this, all we would need were role players on near minimum contracts to be competitive.

Even if the draft pick works out, you still have those terrible contracts prohibiting you from being able to do much of anything unless you do not want to resign Gay.

Or we can not rely on Sacramento's historically inadequate ability to sign outside free agents, and instead package that pick with less crappy contracts for a player that we can force to play here. That's another option.

But even if we were able to clear off both JT and Landry, unless A) Gay opts out and re-signs for cheaper, or B) We decide to not attempt to re-sign Isaiah, we're not left with all that much cap space.

If we can dump just one of them by then without using our pick, we'd also have cap space the summer that follows. And we could do that while keeping our pick, IMO.

I'm just saying we have better options out there. And looking to move Landry right now makes absolutely zero sense.

Think after next season....."how are you going to clear next season if you want to add 10 million + talent?, meaning have Carl and JT both gone"

both JT and Carl gone, gay signs for less once this contract is up.....IT on medium level contract....not everything at once, vision to have a completely awesome cap scenario, Rudy, IT, Cuz all signed, only about 40 million on the roster...and just Ray mac at under a million.

This would be all we had on the cap in that scenario 2015/16 just one season away

Cuz $14,728,844
Mclemore $3,156,600
Gay 14-15 million
IT 7 million or so
Ray Mac less than a million.

We could seek that big time contract.....then fill up with affordable cheap role players.

Add a 10-15 million talented piece.....there are RFA, not just free agents, or you take back salary in a trade....

[blind prophet]

OK broken down real easy. 2015/16

If we use the pick to move Carl, and JT may take 3 teams...

Keep Pick, can't trade Landry or JT

New Rookie $2,521,900
Cuz $14,728,844
Mclemore $3,156,600
Gay 14-15 million
IT 7 million or so
Ray Mac $947,276
Landry $6,750,000 + 1 more season of garbage
Thompson $6,431,250 +1 more season of garbage

Total 56,535,850


Trade Pick, Dump Carl and JT

Cuz $14,728,844
Mclemore $3,156,600
Gay 14-15 million
IT 7 million or so
Ray Mac $947,276

Total 40,832,700

Getting rid of that pick now, and dumping those two clowns we can sign someone for up to 15 million and still have more spending money.

Have some vision, take this opportunity to sell high on the pick, dump our garbage, actually be a hell of a team after just one more season.

[pillwenney]

I was advocating for looking to move one of them, which would take us down to around 50million, while also allowing us to keep a potentially high value rookie. We aren't going to get anybody for the max that is worth the max. Cap space is nice, but at a certain point, it becomes pointless here.

And beyond that, I think we're drastically over-dramatizing how hard it will be to move these guys. There will be some team out there that has some crap useless player on an expiring contract that will need size, and by the next deadline, JT will only have a season and a half plus that 2.5mil in the last year. It's really not that dire.

And even if we need to add pieces to move them, I guarantee you we'll have to use fewer assets to move Carl once he is healthy.

[blind prophet]

I was advocating for looking to move one of them, which would take us down to around 50million, while also allowing us to keep a potentially high value rookie. We aren't going to get anybody for the max that is worth the max. Cap space is nice, but at a certain point, it becomes pointless here.

And beyond that, I think we're drastically over-dramatizing how hard it will be to move these guys. There will be some team out there that has some crap useless player on an expiring contract that will need size, and by the next deadline, JT will only have a season and a half plus that 2.5mil in the last year. It's really not that dire.

And even if we need to add pieces to move them, I guarantee you we'll have to use fewer assets to move Carl once he is healthy.

I hope you are right.

This pick has what a 50% chance to be a stud being an optimist?

25% Maybe useful solid player.

If we roll with the pick and it turns out bad, or just decent, I think Landry will be right here until the end of the 16-17 season.

Personally I'd rather have that 15 million in hand to pay for someone there is no doubt will be an excellent player.

[SacKingZZZ]

I think giving up a high value asset to get rid of JT or especially Carl right now is not the way to go.

Carl's value will never be lower than it is right now. He will only get healthier and his contract will only get shorter. Now is not the time to look to move him.

If we're looking to create some kind of immediate cap space, we should look to clear easier salary to move--like Williams, Terry, Outlaw, etc.

I was thinking through possibilities and there could always be a chance that someone might be willing to eat Williams final year and give the Kings some space either before the FA period or at the deadline. That could ease the pain of re-signing IT. Kind of like how the Warriors were able to clear some contracts for Iggy. Problem is usually with deals like that you have send something else their way to do it but maybe there is a team enticed by what little aura of significant potential DWill has left? Smart money would have been to put Williams at PF for the last few months and hope he exploded but they didn't do that. Too late now.

The more I look at Williams, the more I just don't really like him. He often shows half-assed effort on both ends and takes too many jumpers, rendering his ample penetration abilities useless. I think he lacks the necessary motivation to reach his potential.

I do think he'd be our best bet though in terms of clearing salary--especially since next year is a contract year for him, and he is exactly the kind of guy who may try playing up to a contract year.

If we have to move something with him, it shouldn't be that much. Certainly not a mid-lotto pick in what is being said to be a very strong draft.

He's been put into basically the same exact box he was in Minnesota, same box = same results = reason he was traded in the first place. I think if he's put into the spot we've seen him in ourselves, as a scorer, and allowed to produce he'll be solid but as with many others the fit and opportunity just isn't there. To ask him to be your backup SF and bring defense and production on low usage and ask anything from him other than what he's shown capable of then that's a problem with the ones calling the shots. Whoever is repeating the same process and expecting different results. He is what he is. The only scary thing to me is some of Viveks comments on him in an interview I read somewhere, can't remember exactly, anyway, he apparently sees him as this multi-positional player who is a strength for this team. I really hope that was him taking a super, super positive outlook on that and nothing more.

Maybe he could turn it around and start showing that effort you mention but I think when you are filling gaps around stars there are plenty of options who will fit the description and that's much better than trying to pound nails with a hacksaw. In this role, with this teams needs, Williams is probably expendable. Another year or even half of a year in this role and his only value will be as an expiring, if it isn't already. If it is there is very little chance the Kings dump him without having to add value and as of now, the only value this team has is Ben Mac and this years 1st. No way do you use either of those to dump him though. If that's the choice you let IT walk. I'm however not totally opposed to using some combination of the pick and one of JT or Landry in a dump scenario. Maybe even if it simply involves the Kings moving out of this draft entirely. I know you disagree but if the Kings are at 7-8 and Smart is off the board I see nothing of real value for this team that they maybe couldn't even trade down to get.

[SacKingZZZ]

I was advocating for looking to move one of them, which would take us down to around 50million, while also allowing us to keep a potentially high value rookie. We aren't going to get anybody for the max that is worth the max. Cap space is nice, but at a certain point, it becomes pointless here.

And beyond that, I think we're drastically over-dramatizing how hard it will be to move these guys. There will be some team out there that has some crap useless player on an expiring contract that will need size, and by the next deadline, JT will only have a season and a half plus that 2.5mil in the last year. It's really not that dire.

And even if we need to add pieces to move them, I guarantee you we'll have to use fewer assets to move Carl once he is healthy.

I hope you are right.

This pick has what a 50% chance to be a stud being an optimist?

25% Maybe useful solid player.

If we roll with the pick and it turns out bad, or just decent, I think Landry will be right here until the end of the 16-17 season.

Personally I'd rather have that 15 million in hand to pay for someone there is no doubt will be an excellent player.

When you factor in where this team is at in it's development then maybe even lower percentages just because that player might not have a major role with this team unless they are ready to contribute. Look how long it took Malone to start focusing on development this year. Draft a guy 7-8, especially if it's a big, and stick him back in the pack and you will be creating another TRob from day 1. You'll be lucky just to dump his rookie deal if you need space.

[teerfour+40LG]

Gay's worth no more than Cousins. I think we can all agree about that.

[SactoKingsFan]

Similar contract to Igoudala's 48/4 deal with Warriors would be acceptable.

[Big_Cat]

When you factor in where this team is at in it's development then maybe even lower percentages just because that player might not have a major role with this team unless they are ready to contribute. Look how long it took Malone to start focusing on development this year. Draft a guy 7-8, especially if it's a big, and stick him back in the pack and you will be creating another TRob from day 1. You'll be lucky just to dump his rookie deal if you need space.

This is where we stand IMO...

Our team severely lacks the talent in order to become a true contender and our assets and flexibility is rapidly diminishing.

Our draft pick this year is basically our last semi-realistic shot at obtaining a difference maker. Otherwise any additional improvements after this season will realistically be marginal improvements here and there (ie filling in the holes with role players and vets). This is likely the last time we can potentially add a major piece to the core of Isaiah/Gay/Cousins.

However, if we miss on the pick, then we really just have to rebuild and start from scratch (meaning move DeMarcus). We'll be cap constrained with Landry and Thompson and have no foreseeable and realistic way in moving them (outside of pure luck). It'll be difficult to keep Isaiah and we basically won't be adding any average or above average FA.



It's as if we are playing blackjack. The dealer is showing an ace and we are at 16. Hit and we can bust. Don't hit and the odds of us winning are slim.

[Kings2013]

The latest video where Rudy discusses where he is at is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDXPv2K6zUc

Personally, I think an extension is going to get done before the season starts. IMO there is too much to risk for both parties. I have to think if ownership views him as a franchise piece that they would not want him free on the market next summer where we are competing for his services with possibly more attractive locales. By the same token Rudy's value has never been higher, and even if he wants to win I have to believe if the Kings are intent on showing him the money that he wouldn't want to risk a down year/injury.

Also I wonder how much of his value has been altered by the current market place. We were thinking 15 should be enough to get it done but Chandler Parsons and Hayward are commanding that.. It will be interesting