Is Thomas the right player?
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Is Thomas the right player?
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- Ballboy
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Is Thomas the right player?
I believe we need to let IT walk. I just think he's a bad fit for this team. I think we're much better off drafting a PG to play with McCallum. Someone who can man up more on D because once guys penetrate our backcourt it just gets Cousins in foul trouble, Then we should find a veteran SG to play in front of Ben allowing him to develop, someone who can be had for a reasonable amount and basically split minutes with Ben and can shoot from distance.
I actually think Ray is a better fit as a starting PG for this team for next year. I doubt Thomas would take the 2.5- 3 mil contract and sit behind Ray that would make him a fit.
This is all assuming we can resign Gay for cheaper.
A starting 5 of Cuz / Landry / Gay / SG/ Ray with D-will and rookie stud PG would be a lot more watchable, allow for development, and put us in a better position to trade and make moves than a 5-8 mil Thomas will.
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I actually think Ray is a better fit as a starting PG for this team for next year. I doubt Thomas would take the 2.5- 3 mil contract and sit behind Ray that would make him a fit.
This is all assuming we can resign Gay for cheaper.
A starting 5 of Cuz / Landry / Gay / SG/ Ray with D-will and rookie stud PG would be a lot more watchable, allow for development, and put us in a better position to trade and make moves than a 5-8 mil Thomas will.
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I think it's quite simple. If we resign Isaiah, our roster is essentially set and we can't make any more changes (or we're in the lux tax).
If we think our current roster isn't good enough to be competitive (ie if we went into next season with the exact same roster + a rookie), than we simply cannot commit the money to Isaiah.
If we think our current roster isn't good enough to be competitive (ie if we went into next season with the exact same roster + a rookie), than we simply cannot commit the money to Isaiah.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- Wolfay
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
Everything is simple if you can make it into a (false) dichotomy.
And I wonder who this rookie stud PG scotch_and_dice has in mind.
And I wonder who this rookie stud PG scotch_and_dice has in mind.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- blind prophet
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I let him walk, we have very little financial flexibility.
Reinvest at a later date, perhaps during the next off season, or look to take back a big money contract.
I'd rather wait a season or two, sign real 10 million + talent, and be worse for it in the short term.
Reinvest at a later date, perhaps during the next off season, or look to take back a big money contract.
I'd rather wait a season or two, sign real 10 million + talent, and be worse for it in the short term.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
blind prophet wrote:I let him walk, we have very little financial flexibility.
Reinvest at a later date, perhaps during the next off season, or look to take back a big money contract.
I'd rather wait a season or two, sign real 10 million + talent, and be worse for it in the short term.
Our franchise should create a law that we cannot offer any contracts between $5 million and $10 million. Everyone we sign in this range has almost always been utter trash and we spend the next 3-5 years complaining about how much we want them off the roster.
Either sign low valued guys or true talent (ie $10 mil+)
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
He's a great player and he has come through for us as a competitor these last couple years, especially considering how we ended up with him. Definitely one of the King's few draft success stories. But I think that was more of a pleasant accident rather than a calculated choice by the Kings.
That being said, I just cannot accept that he's the best choice running the point for the future of the team. For this team to achieve the playoffs and beyond, we need a playmaker at the helm who can make smart decisions. IT can score, is confident and competetive, but I do not see him with the understanding of what the team needs during crucial points in the game. Nor do I see him with the capacity to provide it. At this point, I see McCallum as more of a complete player than IT, if not the same offensive influence. But even here, McCallum is simply a good choice for our backup PG.
I was cozy with the potential of having Rondo on this team because I feel he can bring everything IT lacks, even though it meant loosing the firepower of IT. Rondo is probably one of the most competitive PG in the league, can defend the opposing team's PG, lead, and make the decision and plays that the team needs in crucial game time situations. He's seasoned and can provide the leadership and experience that the team currently lacks. Was he worth what was offered? Perhaps not, I don't study that basketball calculus as well as others, but if there is any chance we can bring the "Rondo" mould into this organization through drafting or signing another player, then IMO that would fix a majority of our team's issues.
Also, IT lost a lot of stock with me when I learned that he was a lifetime Laker's fan. I mean, that's just a deal breaker right there.
That being said, I just cannot accept that he's the best choice running the point for the future of the team. For this team to achieve the playoffs and beyond, we need a playmaker at the helm who can make smart decisions. IT can score, is confident and competetive, but I do not see him with the understanding of what the team needs during crucial points in the game. Nor do I see him with the capacity to provide it. At this point, I see McCallum as more of a complete player than IT, if not the same offensive influence. But even here, McCallum is simply a good choice for our backup PG.
I was cozy with the potential of having Rondo on this team because I feel he can bring everything IT lacks, even though it meant loosing the firepower of IT. Rondo is probably one of the most competitive PG in the league, can defend the opposing team's PG, lead, and make the decision and plays that the team needs in crucial game time situations. He's seasoned and can provide the leadership and experience that the team currently lacks. Was he worth what was offered? Perhaps not, I don't study that basketball calculus as well as others, but if there is any chance we can bring the "Rondo" mould into this organization through drafting or signing another player, then IMO that would fix a majority of our team's issues.
Also, IT lost a lot of stock with me when I learned that he was a lifetime Laker's fan. I mean, that's just a deal breaker right there.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I believe they'll have no choice but to let IT walk. Hahaha. Seriously if a team puts out a deal like the one Portland dumped on Millsap a few years back he's gone unless they want to go into the luxury tax. Utah matched then, but if the new CBA was instituted at that time Millsap would have been a Blazer.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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- Ballboy
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
Wolfay wrote:Everything is simple if you can make it into a (false) dichotomy.
And I wonder who this rookie stud PG scotch_and_dice has in mind.
I have no idea who the rookie stud pg would be, I don't watch college ball and I was kind of being playful with the word stud.
Really I just think IT is the wrong fit with Cousins. Cousins can't backup Thomas's defensive shortcomings and Thomas doesn't create the spacing and give good entry passes into Cousins. So many plays are just Thomas near the right side 3 line, looking for a way to pass it over the bigger defending PG into a stagnant DMC. A playmaker would dribble around until he created an opening for that entry pass, and then immediately move to an open spot after the pass.
If IT would accept less money, he's a perfect Bobby Jackson. Comes in off the bench, scores snd runs the second unit while exciting the crowd, but I'm too afraid he thunks of himself as a starter. He could be, on a Memphis where there's ample interior D, but I don't think so here.
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- SactoKingsFan
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, and Tyler Ennis would all be better fits. I really like IT but he just doesn't have to size to defend other point guards.
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- Kings2013
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
SactoKingsFan wrote:Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, and Tyler Ennis would all be better fits. I really like IT but he just doesn't have to size to defend other point guards.
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Are those three good fits for the team we currently have assembled? I haven't s studied the draft prospects yet, but from what I have heard Smart/Exum have some of the non-true pg traits folks complain about with IT, and Ennis is unathletic without much ceiling. I guess that is up for PDA and the rest of the brain trust to determine.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- SactoKingsFan
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
Kings2013 wrote:SactoKingsFan wrote:Marcus Smart, Dante Exum, and Tyler Ennis would all be better fits. I really like IT but he just doesn't have to size to defend other point guards.
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Are those three good fits for the team we currently have assembled? I haven't s studied the draft prospects yet, but from what I have heard Smart/Exum have some of the non-true pg traits folks complain about with IT, and Ennis is unathletic without much ceiling. I guess that is up for PDA and the rest of the brain trust to determine.
All three would be good fits if IT leaves and if we can get a couple 3 point shooters. I really like Exum and Smart due to their size and defensive potential. Ennis would be a better fit than IT since he's a true point guard. I could see him developing into a Mike Conley type player.
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- pillwenney
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I think you have to keep value in mind. Some scouts suspect IT will get around the MLE. If he gets anywhere close to that, please for the love of God, keep him. Value is value, and it wouldn't really be like our other MLE contracts that have needlessly clogged our cap over the years because well, we know that IT won't suck coming off the bench, or being in a slightly more diminished role. He'll produce efficiently no matter where you put him because he's that good of a player. This wouldn't be JT, Thornton, etc.
Keep him for anything under 7-7.5mil IMO. Anything more than that, and don't keep him unless you think he's your starter (which the FO doesn't seem to think).
Regarding the tax, I think we can make it work. It's close enough and we have moveable enough pieces.
Keep him for anything under 7-7.5mil IMO. Anything more than that, and don't keep him unless you think he's your starter (which the FO doesn't seem to think).
Regarding the tax, I think we can make it work. It's close enough and we have moveable enough pieces.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- Kings2013
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
Personally I don't think it is going to take as much to keep IT as many think. Looking at the teams with cap space, their needs and the other pgs who will be available in free agency and the draft, I don't envision a team breaking the bank to make him their starter. IMO 6 will be sufficient to match the potential offers and he could possibly be kept for less, but I may be in left field on that.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- longfellow44
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
"Because he's the player Sacramento deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So, we'll taunt him, because he can take it. Because he's not our starter. He's a silent scorer A awful defender. A dark knight."
paraphrased ftw
paraphrased ftw
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- SacTown Kings
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I don't get all this "we have no choice but to let IT walk" kind if talk. I really don't think its gunna take much to retain him. No one is going to offer him 10mil a year. I think he can be retained for about 6 mil and I think we have to do that. He would still be trade able down the road we can still draft smart or exum.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
SacTown Kings wrote:I don't get all this "we have no choice but to let IT walk" kind if talk. I really don't think its gunna take much to retain him. No one is going to offer him 10mil a year. I think he can be retained for about 6 mil and I think we have to do that. He would still be trade able down the road we can still draft smart or exum.
If Rudy Gay doesn't opt out, we'll be sitting at $66.5 million without factoring in our 2014 draft pick. Signing Isaiah at $6 million, will push us approximately $5 million into the luxury tax, something every franchise has been desperately trying to avoid.
IF Rudy Gay opts out, and resigns for $14 million, than our current roster + draft pick will put us around $64-65 million. So we would be able to sign Isaiah but would not be able to sign anyone else.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
- blind prophet
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
I doubt Gay will opt out for less, he may negotiate the same pay, then extend. That's what I would be trying to do if I were him and his agent. Add another 3-4 years on his current contract.
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
pillwenney wrote:I think you have to keep value in mind. Some scouts suspect IT will get around the MLE. If he gets anywhere close to that, please for the love of God, keep him. Value is value, and it wouldn't really be like our other MLE contracts that have needlessly clogged our cap over the years because well, we know that IT won't suck coming off the bench, or being in a slightly more diminished role. He'll produce efficiently no matter where you put him because he's that good of a player. This wouldn't be JT, Thornton, etc.
Keep him for anything under 7-7.5mil IMO. Anything more than that, and don't keep him unless you think he's your starter (which the FO doesn't seem to think).
Regarding the tax, I think we can make it work. It's close enough and we have moveable enough pieces.
If a team only offers the MLE to Isaiah you better keep him regardless of anything else. Find a way to cut some salary at the deadline, but you honestly think there isn't 1 single team willing to go for more than the MLE on a player averaging star type numbers? And once again, the yearly compensation isn't the issue, it's his cap hit in the first of his new deal. The issue is when a team comes out with some bloated first year front loaded contract. This is where being restricted actually hurts the Kings because unless he is so hell bent on re-signing for a sweetheart deal, the Kings can only match at that point.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
SacTown Kings wrote:I don't get all this "we have no choice but to let IT walk" kind if talk. I really don't think its gunna take much to retain him. No one is going to offer him 10mil a year. I think he can be retained for about 6 mil and I think we have to do that. He would still be trade able down the road we can still draft smart or exum.
I already posted this above but you could pay him 6 million a year, but if a team front loads the contract then you're talking paying him double that potentially. Kings don't want to go there because then you start losing your exceptions and stuff like that.
Yes, the Kings could always match and then look to trade him at the deadline, but that's pretty risky. I think that was the intention when they signed Landry. I bet they figured they'll just correct that frontcourt crunch when the time comes and then they got a cold hard reality check this deadline.
And enough with the senseless roster. If you draft a rookie needing time and the right role to play effectively either move him now before his value tanks or create a space for him. You want to know how that ends, look at TRob. You have Hickson, draft TRob, and re-sign JT on top of it. 3 cherries, nothing to put them on.
Re: Is Thomas the right player?
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Re: Is Thomas the right player?
pillwenney wrote:I think you have to keep value in mind. Some scouts suspect IT will get around the MLE. If he gets anywhere close to that, please for the love of God, keep him. Value is value, and it wouldn't really be like our other MLE contracts that have needlessly clogged our cap over the years because well, we know that IT won't suck coming off the bench, or being in a slightly more diminished role. He'll produce efficiently no matter where you put him because he's that good of a player. This wouldn't be JT, Thornton, etc.
Keep him for anything under 7-7.5mil IMO. Anything more than that, and don't keep him unless you think he's your starter (which the FO doesn't seem to think).
Regarding the tax, I think we can make it work. It's close enough and we have moveable enough pieces.
I agree with the value part to an extent. I don't think IT is worth more than what Nate Robinson has ever been paid. That puts him in the $4 per season max range. I use Nate because if we asked Nate to come in and do what Isaiah is doing he could replicate it. The issue is nobody in their right mind has asked Nate to be in this role, and I don't think we really "asked" IT to be either. Reke didn't resign, and Vasquez didn't work. Therefore by default someone has to play there.
Realistically Thomas is a reserve PG. I think he should be compensated as someone who fits that role versus a true starting PG. While he's putting up nice numbers I do feel it's skewed. We don't have the talent to field a starting five so he has to score the ball.
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