Tyreke Evans question

Koorverfor3 · Post #1 » by **Koorverfor3** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:19 pm

I was doing some digging on rookies who put up big times numbers on bad teams.
Big Sixers fan, and I have some slight concerns about MCW. I don't think hes the superstar that the media pimps him out to be in Philly, I think his role on a contending team is a facilitator, defensive 3rd option.
17ppg on 16 shots is horrendous efficiency, but unlike Jrue Holiday who made up for his offensive shortcomings with tenacious on ball defense Carter Williams struggled guarding anyone. He does show promise as a defender with his measurable and ability to play the passing lanes.

Made me think of Tyreke, who the Kings let run a playground offense in an attempt to get ROY, much like we did with MCW. Digging deeper, Reke actually didn't post awful efficiency..20ppg on around 15 shots is very good for any guard. His ass/to ratio wasn't spectacular but it wasn't awful. He even gained an impressive 5+ win shares..3 on offense and 2 on defense. (3 on defense for a guard or wing strikes me as a good defender)

My question is what happened? Did the prior regime just fumble handling a potential All Star complimentary talent? Or Did Reke just stop working after a successful Rookie year? There has always been questions about his character since he was coming up around here as a 16 year old prodigy. I know all about the jumpshot been watching him play in person since looking up to him at 12 years old. But there have been pleanty of guards who got by without elite level shooting.

Whats the scoop guys

enderwilson · Post #2 » by **enderwilson** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:39 pm

Koorverfor3 wrote:Did the prior regime just fumble handling a potential All Star complimentary talent?

IMO, yes AND no. Yes because he was on dysfunctional team that didn't provide great opportunities for him to develop, nor did it put the kind of players around him that complimented his game. But that aside, at some point the player has to take responsibility for their own development. The biggest criticism that everyone had of Tyreke going into his sophomore year was the lack of a consistent jumper. He was supposed to be the next Kobe/LeBron with his rookie numbers. However, after his rookie off season, he never could stop fading-away on his jump shot, even when wide-open. This really just made him a one-dimensional offensive player. He's elite at that dimension, but it's pretty simple to defend as all teams need to do is collapse into the paint and he's effectively neutralized.

I lost faith in him after his 3rd season with no real improvement in his game since his rookie year. Of course he suffered from plantar-fasciitis his sophomore year but that's really just an excuse. IMO, what Tyreke lacks that keeps him from being a super star is heart and IQ. If he had the heart of Isaiah Thomas and the IQ of Stephen Curry, he would have been the second coming of Jordan. Lacking these qualities kept him from being the leader that he should of been for the Kings. Its the lack of heart and BB smarts which to me explains why he is where he is today.

I've often thought how our situation might have been different had we picked Curry instead of Tyreke. Before going into the draft, the player that really stood out to me (other than Blake Griffin) was Stephen. Tyreke may be more physically gifted than Stephen, but this is a perfect example where heart and smarts makes the difference over physical gifts. But hind sight being 20/20, I don't think anyone believed that Tyreke would plateau after his rookie year.

The question is, does the heart and smarts of MCW make up for what he might be lacking in other parts of his game? I'm not sure as I didn't follow his rookie season at all.

Post #3 » by **ICMTM** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:59 pm

Evans and MCW are a different case study. Instead of everything written they tried to make him a SF. I don't think anyone's going to try to make him a small forward. If you look at his numbers after Jrue Holliday went down in New Orleans they were at an All-Star level.

Evans issue is he is a point guard, and nobody in Sacramento wanted him to play that position. It's just that simple. People play a certain way in certain environments. If you surround Evans with a finisher around the rim and shooters he's an all-star talent. Ask Pelican fans.

blind prophet · Post #4 » by **blind prophet** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:27 am

Tyreke would have been just fine without a caliber post player like Cousins. Different priorities once Cuz came to town.

Post #5 » by **codydaze** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:46 am

What ICMTM said. He's a point guard and we took him out of that role after his rookie year. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective and when you move him off ball you pretty much take him out of the offense since he can't shoot.

Post #6 » by **Wolfay** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:38 am

I third ICMTM. Poor guy was misused in pretty much every way imaginable in his short tenure here, and probably didn't get the necessary resources under the Maloof ownership to get better. I think he still could've worked here, but it didn't pencil out financially. I'm glad he's doing well in New Orleans though.

PaKwAn · Post #7 » by **PaKwAn** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:40 am

Reke was doomed once cuz came and became sacs guy.. he didn't fit well with cuz since both are ball dominant players.. reke needed the right type of players around him..AD fits nicely with him since ad does not really need the ball as much as other stars are accustomed to...

Mcw will be fine for a few years since philly is really determined to tank anyway.. plus the guys especially noel would fit nicely with him..

Koorverfor3 · Post #8 » by **Koorverfor3** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:07 pm

Looking back at the past drafts the Kings could have done a much better job building around him..even with Cousins in the fold.

2011 Stayed at pick 7 picked Bismak as a defender to put next to Cousins Longterm

Biyombo wouldn't have made the Kings any better that year..

2012 at 5 could have traded down for Terrence Ross. A 3/D terrific spot up shooter to play off Reke

Post #9 » by **codydaze** » Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:54 pm

Koorverfor3 wrote:Looking back at the past drafts the Kings could have done a much better job building around him..even with Cousins in the fold.

2011 Stayed at pick 7 picked Bismak as a defender to put next to Cousins Longterm

Biyombo wouldn't have made the Kings any better that year..

2012 at 5 could have traded down for Terrence Ross. A 3/D terrific spot up shooter to play off Reke

While that's all true, I'd still much rather build around Cousins. Even then we could have taken Kawhi and Lillard in 2011 then 2012. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Post #10 » by **ICMTM** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:15 pm

Cousins and Evans weren't the issue. The issue was simply the club asked Evans to do something he wasn't great at in the Maloof Era. The Shooting part is vastly overblown because he doesn't have to shoot. He can get where he wants at pretty much will.

I cannot say this enough FIT MATTERS.

The New Kings era values ball movement and shooting over individual play. While I don't think Evans was exactly wanted back regardless of dollar amount (he doesn't fit the new era mantra) he's still a star level NBA talent as long as he's in the right fit.

Koorverfor3 · Post #11 » by **Koorverfor3** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:55 pm

ICMTM wrote:Cousins and Evans weren't the issue. The issue was simply the club asked Evans to do something he wasn't great at in the Maloof Era. The Shooting part is vastly overblown because he doesn't have to shoot. He can get where he wants at pretty much will.

I cannot say this enough FIT MATTERS.

The New Kings era values ball movement and shooting over individual play. While I don't think Evans was exactly wanted back regardless of dollar amount (he doesn't fit the new era mantra) he's still a star level NBA talent as long as he's in the right fit.

Yea looking at his pure numbers after Jrue went down he was getting something like 22/6/5 the last 2 months of the season.
Its clear that
1) He needs to start, can't find rythem off the bench with Jason Smith as your sidekick
2) He should be the dominant ball handler on that squad, let Jrue play off the ball where he thrives on spot up 3's and can create his own shot if needed.

Pelicans can be a 50 win team if utilized correctly

beb0p · Post #12 » by **beb0p** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:16 am

Koorverfor3 wrote:My question is what happened? Did the prior regime just fumble handling a potential All Star complimentary talent?

Whats the scoop guys

You take a full sized shooting guard and you play him at the point, give him the ball, and tell him to just go to town; you are going to get some crazy offensive numbers. Your team won't win too many games, but your fake PG will for sure amass all-star like stats. And of course right? You take a 6'-5" 220 pounds SG and let him go against guys 4 inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter night after night, it's like high school all over again! Even when teams switch the matchups, it still leaves mismatches elsewhere that Tyreke (being the #1 option) can exploit. That's basically what happened with Tyreke. Once the Kings realized he is not a PG, they moved him to his proper position at the wing and his production dropped (still good but not all-star by any means) as it should because he is now going against guys his own size.

Just check out how Jamal Crawford, Mike Miller, Mike Dunleavy, Flip Murray, heck even Jordan Crawford put up stats way beyond their normal self when they were put to play PG. But those kind of play only benefits fantasy league teams.

MCW is a different scenario. He is true PG that is given the green light to do way more than he should be given the green light for. He will be reigned in at some point when and if the Sixers get more talent.
.

Post #13 » by **ICMTM** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:38 am

Fit.

The Kings won 25 games Evans rookie year. With all the change since then and the consensus we're better now we have improved a whole 3 games in the win column since then.

Speaking of Fit is Noel and Embiid pan out like they are supposed to MCW will be just fine.

Zion Wembanyama · Post #14 » by **Zion Wembanyama** » Mon Oct 6, 2014 7:05 pm

Koorverfor3 wrote:
ICMTM wrote:Cousins and Evans weren't the issue. The issue was simply the club asked Evans to do something he wasn't great at in the Maloof Era. The Shooting part is vastly overblown because he doesn't have to shoot. He can get where he wants at pretty much will.

I cannot say this enough FIT MATTERS.

The New Kings era values ball movement and shooting over individual play. While I don't think Evans was exactly wanted back regardless of dollar amount (he doesn't fit the new era mantra) he's still a star level NBA talent as long as he's in the right fit.

Yea looking at his pure numbers after Jrue went down he was getting something like 22/6/5 the last 2 months of the season.
Its clear that
1) He needs to start, can't find rythem off the bench with Jason Smith as your sidekick
2) He should be the dominant ball handler on that squad, let Jrue play off the ball where he thrives on spot up 3's and can create his own shot if needed.

Pelicans can be a 50 win team if utilized correctly

This.

VeeJay24 · Post #15 » by **VeeJay24** » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:35 pm

ICMTM wrote:Cousins and Evans weren't the issue. The issue was simply the club asked Evans to do something he wasn't great at in the Maloof Era. The Shooting part is vastly overblown because he doesn't have to shoot. He can get where he wants at pretty much will.

I cannot say this enough FIT MATTERS.

The New Kings era values ball movement and shooting over individual play. While I don't think Evans was exactly wanted back regardless of dollar amount (he doesn't fit the new era mantra) he's still a star level NBA talent as long as he's in the right fit.

ICMTM,

you know that is an oxymoron with Boogie and Gay on the team- right!! Reke in New Orleans will be fine if they put the ball in his hands. Reke with the ball in his hands with Maclemore and Stauskas would've been awesome as well. The jury is still out; we will see if this regime made the right choices.

Post #16 » by **ICMTM** » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:53 pm

VeeJay24 wrote:
ICMTM wrote:Cousins and Evans weren't the issue. The issue was simply the club asked Evans to do something he wasn't great at in the Maloof Era. The Shooting part is vastly overblown because he doesn't have to shoot. He can get where he wants at pretty much will.

I cannot say this enough FIT MATTERS.

The New Kings era values ball movement and shooting over individual play. While I don't think Evans was exactly wanted back regardless of dollar amount (he doesn't fit the new era mantra) he's still a star level NBA talent as long as he's in the right fit.

ICMTM,

you know that is an oxymoron with Boogie and Gay on the team- right!! Reke in New Orleans will be fine if they put the ball in his hands. Reke with the ball in his hands with Maclemore and Stauskas would've been awesome as well. The jury is still out; we will see if this regime made the right choices.

when you have a truly dominant player in Cousins and a guy who has the talent of Gay you tent to tell yourself it can work. They "can" move the ball but are they willing is the question. With Evans he has to create/start the play.

Darren_Errman · Post #17 » by **Darren_Errman** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:57 pm

The Kings slowed Tyreke's growth and confidence by playing him at different positions. We had a new coach every few months so that didn't help.

He was also injured and played hurt quite a bit.

Tyreke probably would have panned out better if he went to a stable team with a stable system. He was always a 2 to me, not a point guard. He should have played SG from day 1 IMO even if it means he wouldn't have won ROY. Just because he needs the ball in his hand doesn't mean he needs to play PG. Kobe, Sprewell, Wade, etc. are all SGs who had the ball a lot in their hand. I don't see a successful offense with Tyreke running point TBH. His handle is excellent but his court vision is bad for a PG.