At What Point Do We Tank to Keep Our Pick?

[City of Trees]

I'd be lying if I said there wasn't a part of me that wondered if Cousins was told to take his sweet time coming back if the Kings couldn't get themselves a projected 5 spot or better for this draft

Not that I expect Karl or the FO/ownership to be down with that, nor do I think they'd risk offending Cousins with the notion

I believe Cousins injury situation is day to day anyways, and it might be better in the long run to build the culture/chemistry and to see which players fit with Cuz under Karl

Cousins should play as much as possible but with that said his health is priority #1. No need to rush him back. Extra bonus it just so happens to help keep our pick.

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[teerfour+40LG]

I'm pretty sure Cuz will get plenty of playing time when we're on our road trip. Not even he can get this squad wins on the road.

[SacKingZZZ]

I doubt there is anyone involved with the Kings hoping for losses. The brain trust is most assuredly hoping for a complete 180 after hiring Karl if for nothing else than to save face. This was oddly one of the most egg in face seasons for this franchise in it's history and following the circus Maloof that had to be previously unthinkable. I'd be even more worried if this front office was tanking for a draft pick when anyone with even a hint of scouting ability can see this draft is going to be sketchy as all heck. There should be some solid players but this is not a draft you tank for.

[blind prophet]

Normally I think strategic tanking/development is reasonable to consider.

But with the regime change, and what we are trying to setup for next season, I do not think it is the right move.

[enderwilson]

What tanking means to me...

That we're defeated. We suck and we're never going to get better. So why not throw in the towel? The only glimmer of hope we have is that we'll draft the next MJ, right?

I'm sorry, but this is such a stupid notion. We've 'tanked' every season for the past decade. Can anyone on this thread point to any success we've garnered from tanking since then? You know what's going to get us into the postseason faster than taking?

NOT TANKING!

Sure we're not destined to make it into the playoffs, but IMO by sacrificing the morale and opportunity to lure talent to this team through our consistent loosing and uninspired play makes it short of a guarantee that we wont make it into the postseason next year. Perhaps our only chance of improving the outlook of this team is to develop the talent we've accumulated and start to build the identity of this team. Coach Karl is a great choice because he understands that successful teams know who they are and what they can do and he's actively working towards that with these guys.

In contrast, we've relied on the draft to bring us into the playoffs last year. We also did so the year before that. How can it be considered sane to believe that next year will be different? Isn't that one of the tests for sanity? Repeating the same steps, trying the same failed strategy, again and again, and each time expecting a different outcome?

A new strategy is necessary. How about we try winning every game we can until the end of the season and see what happens?

[blind prophet]

enderwilson

If we tanked last year and dealt IT before the deadline.....

We could have been a lot better off consulting Karl then in the off season, and having a better pick.

But for us currently now, I don't think it is wise.

[bleeds_purple]

Right. I think last year was the year to tank and I said it at the time.

Obviously there are cons to purposefully losing games. Ultimately, I'm hoping we can keep the pick without tanking and then put together a package of something along the lines of Landry/Stauskas/#8 pick and acquire a starting big to put next to Cousins.

I'd like to target: Favors, Noah, Gibson, Miles Plumblee, and Ryan Anderson. Some of these guys could be had for a lesser package indeed. My ideal fit would be Favors next to Cousins with JT backing both of them up.

We should also look to target Green and Millsap in free agency.

[Kings2013]

Right. I think last year was the year to tank and I said it at the time.

Obviously there are cons to purposefully losing games. Ultimately, I'm hoping we can keep the pick without tanking and then put together a package of something along the lines of Landry/Stauskas/#8 pick and acquire a starting big to put next to Cousins.

I'd like to target: Favors, Noah, Gibson, Miles Plumblee, and Ryan Anderson. Some of these guys could be had for a lesser package indeed. My ideal fit would be Favors next to Cousins with JT backing both of them up.

We should also look to target Green and Millsap in free agency.

Yeah I think the organization might look to trade the pick for vet help. We have a veteran core now and Cousins has three years left.

[Kings2013]

I wonder about how folks truly feel about winning and losing right now.. Talk about a double edged sword. You want growth but the higher the pick the higher the potential market value of it.

Just part of being a fan of a lottery team down the stretch

[SacKingZZZ]

It's getting to the point where it's time to start seeing what Stauskas can do, aka development time. It better be more than clear for Karl by now that they need to make some serious changes to the roster around Gay and Cousins. They also need to start trying different things to see what kind of play sets they may want to look into running in the future. I'm sure Pete thought they could just ride into the summer, add a decent draft pick and call it a day. I mean, he "put this roster together" right? Well, sorry, but that's not going to cut it. He has the cornerstones, time to put in the extra fluff. And if he can't do it, he's got to go.

[Kings2013]

Cousins has nagging injuries and is thinking about rest
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/3/17 ... -piling-up

At this point it just looks like it might be better for the franchise to get this fifth projected pick. If you asked me several weeks ago I thought a nice rally to end the season under Karl may have been better but it hasn't happened. Cousins doesn't mind sitting, it would probably be better at this point for the franchise IMO

[Wolfay]

If Cousins is legitimately injured and risking the long-term, then yea, go ahead and sit big fella, but if he's just hurt and sore from what comes from being a professional athlete, then he needs to suck it up like the rest of the team. It's not like he's near the top in minutes played. He owes to it his teammates, and there's still plenty that can be evaluated from the remaining games. We're not winning anyway with him playing, so him sitting or not is not really going to affect a pick in a draft not projected to be very strong.

[blind prophet]

Cousins has nagging injuries and is thinking about rest
http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2015/3/17 ... -piling-up

At this point it just looks like it might be better for the franchise to get this fifth projected pick. If you asked me several weeks ago I thought a nice rally to end the season under Karl may have been better but it hasn't happened. Cousins doesn't mind sitting, it would probably be better at this point for the franchise IMO

If that's the case sit him down.

8 Home Games
8 road games

4 LA Lakers 17-49 .258 4.0 Lost 3 2-8 37.8% 11.9%
5 Orlando 21-47 .309 7.0 Lost 4 2-8 29.1% 8.8%
6 Sacramento 22-44 .333 9.0 Lost 3 2-8 21.5% 6.3%
7 Detroit 23-43 .349 10.0 Lost 10 0-10 15.0% 4.3%
8 Denver 26-42 .382 12.0 Lost 1 6-4 9.9% 2.8%
9 Brooklyn 27-38 .415 14.5 Won 2 4-6 6.1% 1.7%

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[bleeds_purple]

If Cousins is legitimately injured and risking the long-term, then yea, go ahead and sit big fella, but if he's just hurt and sore from what comes from being a professional athlete, then he needs to suck it up like the rest of the team. It's not like he's near the top in minutes played. He owes to it his teammates, and there's still plenty that can be evaluated from the remaining games. We're not winning anyway with him playing, so him sitting or not is not really going to affect a pick in a draft not projected to be very strong.

I really don't understand this mentality. Who's interests are being served by him playing? What do we have to gain? What do we have to gain by him sitting?

[Wolfay]

If Cousins is legitimately injured and risking the long-term, then yea, go ahead and sit big fella, but if he's just hurt and sore from what comes from being a professional athlete, then he needs to suck it up like the rest of the team. It's not like he's near the top in minutes played. He owes to it his teammates, and there's still plenty that can be evaluated from the remaining games. We're not winning anyway with him playing, so him sitting or not is not really going to affect a pick in a draft not projected to be very strong.

I really don't understand this mentality. Who's interests are being served by him playing? What do we have to gain? What do we have to gain by him sitting?

Cousins is the franchise cornerstone. Whether he likes it or not, he has to set an example for the rest of the team. If he sits just because he's a little tired and sore, what kind of message is that sending to a guy like Ben McLemore who's still playing his heart out every night? If Cousins sits, Ben might as well sit too, right? After all, he's played way more minutes than Cousins has. The whole team might as well forfeit. There's also been rumblings that Rudy Gay has been barking at Cousins for his at times lackadaisical effort, and Cousins sitting is not going to help that dynamic. Really this is the opportunity for Cousins to step up, take a leadership role, and make a statement to Coach Karl and his teammates.

Again, if he's legitimately injured and risking serious long-term damage, then he should sit. Sitting for any other reason though, is frankly, wimping out. Otherwise, be a man, and do your job. That is my mentality. There's also still plenty we need to evaluate, and chemistry/confidence to build. That's not worth risking for maybe (emphasis on maybe) slightly better odds that the physics of a ping ball will bounce in our favor in a weak draft.

[KF10]

We are currently at #6 in the lotto standings.

I don't believe in tanking but this team is bad enough that losing is the only thing constant about them. This team has so many holes and we aren't talented enough to win most games.

[SacKingZZZ]

If Cousins is legitimately injured and risking the long-term, then yea, go ahead and sit big fella, but if he's just hurt and sore from what comes from being a professional athlete, then he needs to suck it up like the rest of the team. It's not like he's near the top in minutes played. He owes to it his teammates, and there's still plenty that can be evaluated from the remaining games. We're not winning anyway with him playing, so him sitting or not is not really going to affect a pick in a draft not projected to be very strong.

I really don't understand this mentality. Who's interests are being served by him playing? What do we have to gain? What do we have to gain by him sitting?

Cousins is the franchise cornerstone. Whether he likes it or not, he has to set an example for the rest of the team. If he sits just because he's a little tired and sore, what kind of message is that sending to a guy like Ben McLemore who's still playing his heart out every night? If Cousins sits, Ben might as well sit too, right? After all, he's played way more minutes than Cousins has. The whole team might as well forfeit. There's also been rumblings that Rudy Gay has been barking at Cousins for his at times lackadaisical effort, and Cousins sitting is not going to help that dynamic. Really this is the opportunity for Cousins to step up, take a leadership role, and make a statement to Coach Karl and his teammates.

Again, if he's legitimately injured and risking serious long-term damage, then he should sit. Sitting for any other reason though, is frankly, wimping out. Otherwise, be a man, and do your job. That is my mentality. There's also still plenty we need to evaluate, and chemistry/confidence to build. That's not worth risking for maybe (emphasis on maybe) slightly better odds that the physics of a ping ball will bounce in our favor in a weak draft.

Uh, I think it's more than being just a little sore. How many times has this guy turned his ankle just in the last month alone? He's missed like 1 game at a time when most people would probably be out at least a week or two if not a month. That pretty bad original ankle turn has to still be lingering.

If I felt there was chemistry that could be developed or this was a combination of players worth investing in that would be one thing, but it's not, and hopefully the Kings brass sees the same thing. I think it's too early to sit now but the rest of this time should be all about the development of Ray, Ben, and Nik. After that the rest is on Pete's shoulders to bring in some much needed role players and Karl in his ability to put the right system in place.

[SacKingZZZ]

We are currently at #6 in the lotto standings.

I don't believe in tanking but this team is bad enough that losing is the only thing constant about them. This team has so many holes and we aren't talented enough to win most games.

We'll have to see where Stanley Johnson goes. He might and I mean ever so slightly might be worth tanking for. He reminds me quite a bit of Ron Artest physically. This is a strange draft, there sure are a lot of throwback stubbly SF's. There are some decent players but this is another year where I'm more excited about the guys being projected down lower. My player to watch is Sam Dekker. He could be the next Chandler Parsons except more athletic, better defensively, but not the shooter Parsons is. His combo of athleticism and ball handling ability is going to excite whatever teams bring him in for a workout, I fully expect him to climb the draft board.

One interesting thing about Johnson is that he could play into the idea I've brought up before about having personnel that can switch pick and rolls. We're now hearing that that's exactly what Karl wants to do so playing more of an athletic combo F at PF makes sense. Johnson is beefy enough to hang with some PF's and Rudy certainly is long enough. Dekker is in the mold of a combo stretch 4 type as well. There are options in the draft that could help the team for sure. But if they are looking for a cornerstone, good luck.

[KF10]

We are currently at #6 in the lotto standings.

I don't believe in tanking but this team is bad enough that losing is the only thing constant about them. This team has so many holes and we aren't talented enough to win most games.

We'll have to see where Stanley Johnson goes. He might and I mean ever so slightly might be worth tanking for. He reminds me quite a bit of Ron Artest physically. This is a strange draft, there sure are a lot of throwback stubbly SF's. There are some decent players but this is another year where I'm more excited about the guys being projected down lower. My player to watch is Sam Dekker. He could be the next Chandler Parsons except more athletic, better defensively, but not the shooter Parsons is. His combo of athleticism and ball handling ability is going to excite whatever teams bring him in for a workout, I fully expect him to climb the draft board.

One interesting thing about Johnson is that he could play into the idea I've brought up before about having personnel that can switch pick and rolls. We're now hearing that that's exactly what Karl wants to do so playing more of an athletic combo F at PF makes sense. Johnson is beefy enough to hang with some PF's and Rudy certainly is long enough. Dekker is in the mold of a combo stretch 4 type as well. There are options in the draft that could help the team for sure. But if they are looking for a cornerstone, good luck.

I haven't followed Johnson nor Dekker much this year but are they fits in Karl's system? I expect an overhaul of this Kings team by next year. If anything, I really like Willie Cauley-Stein & Kristaps Porzingis, well, for Karl's system. They are the "rim runner" Karl has been talking about. Porzingis is an interesting prospect. He kinda reminds me of a mixture of LaFrentz & AK47. Porzingis has nice shooting touch from the perimeter (3PT range) and plays very active/mobile defense via using his length and size to alter shots. That said, his frame is weak and his feel/instinct of the game (both sides of the ball) is average at best. He has a high ceiling but I think he needs to be in a right situation to able to properly flourish, imo. He's very talented i.e. 7'1'' PF/C that can run, shoot and dunk above rim will always draw attention.

[Wolfay]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/News10Sean/status/577925047114825728[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/billherenda/status/577943184417816576[/tweet]

Clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about. He's only a future HoF'er, after all.

There's still work to be done. We're trying to get a head start on next season (and do you really want to argue that we don't need it?), but that's kinda hard to do when your main guy doesn't want to participate because he has a booboo or two.