Random Kings talk

[benchmobbin02]

Everyone has their own terms and criteria on who is in this "superstar" tier. For me, as an example, only LBJ, Curry are the elite of the most elite in the superstar tier. Then, you have Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, CP3, etc rounding off the "bottom half" of the superstar tier or at the very least the top half of the next tier -- which is superstar but can float in and out of the top-5. Cousins' rank floats between 7 & 10. To me, that's just outside of superstar tier.

I think as long as you explain your criteria and thoughts well enough, you are fine with assigning any player in their respective spots in your list, imo.

Haha So subjective. Got it.

[codydaze]

Everyone has their own terms and criteria on who is in this "superstar" tier. For me, as an example, only LBJ, Curry are the elite of the most elite in the superstar tier. Then, you have Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, CP3, etc rounding off the "bottom half" of the superstar tier or at the very least the top half of the next tier -- which is superstar but can float in and out of the top-5. Cousins' rank floats between 7 & 10. To me, that's just outside of superstar tier.

I think as long as you explain your criteria and thoughts well enough, you are fine with assigning any player in their respective spots in your list, imo.

Haha So subjective. Got it.

And subjectively, yes. I'm sure every Kings fan or person in Sacramento would think he's a superstar. Is that the case for the rest of the country though? He isn't among the most jerseys sales and even Zaza Pachulia was beating him in All Star votes. Now was that a Sanjaya a la American Idol type thing happening? Maybe, but I just don't think he's a national superstar yet.

[KF10]

Everyone has their own terms and criteria on who is in this "superstar" tier. For me, as an example, only LBJ, Curry are the elite of the most elite in the superstar tier. Then, you have Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, CP3, etc rounding off the "bottom half" of the superstar tier or at the very least the top half of the next tier -- which is superstar but can float in and out of the top-5. Cousins' rank floats between 7 & 10. To me, that's just outside of superstar tier.

I think as long as you explain your criteria and thoughts well enough, you are fine with assigning any player in their respective spots in your list, imo.

Haha So subjective. Got it.

Well, this is a very, very rough and basic listing of my player's rankings. If I was divulge my rankings, it would be a lot more extensive than what I wrote.

[blind prophet]

The superstar stuff annoys the heck out of me.

You've got all stars, champions, maybe franchise players when its obvious you are trying to build around someone.

When the career is done you have the hall of fame.

Total unnecessary fluff term.

[SacKingZZZ]

I look at the NBA as something that has a simplistic top talent tier and Cousins is in it. Some players can stay on top for years, some do it for just a few. Sometimes it depends on opportunity and role because in the end statistics are what usually define a superstar. Chris Bosh used to be considered a superstar by some and then when he took a lesser role in Miami those discussions seemed to dissipate, but he won. So, it's clearly not just about winning as some say. "Superstar", "star", whatever you want to call it, Cousins is one of the best players in the league period.

[Kings2013]

He's a superstar talent, until it translates to wins he isn't a superstar. I think it will as soon as this year, and rightly he will be considered on that level

[City of Trees]

The superstar stuff annoys the heck out of me.

You've got all stars, champions, maybe franchise players when its obvious you are trying to build around someone.

When the career is done you have the hall of fame.

Total unnecessary fluff term.

It's an unofficial subjective ranking among the league's current players. Summer time chatter my friend.

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[benchmobbin02]

Everyone has their own terms and criteria on who is in this "superstar" tier. For me, as an example, only LBJ, Curry are the elite of the most elite in the superstar tier. Then, you have Durant, Westbrook, Leonard, CP3, etc rounding off the "bottom half" of the superstar tier or at the very least the top half of the next tier -- which is superstar but can float in and out of the top-5. Cousins' rank floats between 7 & 10. To me, that's just outside of superstar tier.

I think as long as you explain your criteria and thoughts well enough, you are fine with assigning any player in their respective spots in your list, imo.

Haha So subjective. Got it.

And subjectively, yes. I'm sure every Kings fan or person in Sacramento would think he's a superstar. Is that the case for the rest of the country though? He isn't among the most jerseys sales and even Zaza Pachulia was beating him in All Star votes. Now was that a Sanjaya a la American Idol type thing happening? Maybe, but I just don't think he's a national superstar yet.

Just from this convo it doesn't seem like EVERY Kings fan thinks he is. In fact, I think Sac fans may be so close to the situation that we get all the background and see every game. More chances to pick him apart. Think the % nationally may be bigger than locally due to national perspective being mainly stat and positional ranking based. I have no data on that just an interesting way to look at it.

[benchmobbin02]

And I like cousins but it's stuff like this that is very bothersome


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IMO his comments read much worse than what was actually said. The video didnt look that bad.

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I completely agree. It's just something that could be made a story and since nothing else is happening it's becomes news worthy.

“I’m trying to figure out what I said wrong. Of course, they’ve twisted it into something negative, in some type of way,” Cousins told The Vertical. “I’m clueless. It’s to the point now, where I don’t want to say anything about any situation. Then I’ll be the bad guy about that as well. Anything I do. Anything I do, it’s … it’s whatever, man.”

[rallydurham]

Honestly I can't figure out everyone's obsession with Cousins. He was 190th in ts% because he's just not that great of a scorer. His skyhigh turnovers really kill his efficiency. Hes not nearly as bad defensively as his reputation but he's never going to be an elite defender.

Hes been surrounded by pretty bad talent most of his career but he's never even made the playoffs. I think people will have a much more accurate assessment of him once he leaves SAC and his teams continue to underachieve vs expecations.

It's not all his fault, he was just born in the wrong era. A scoring big man just doesn't matter much anymore. You'd prefer to have an impact defender. Let the guards run the offense and the wings do the shooting. Big men are just there to set screens and keep the defense honest.

If a guy with Cousins skillset can't score efficiently then that's all you really need to know. Not everyone can be Anthony davis. You're much better off building around a guy like DeAndre jordan than cousins

[Sheva7]

because he's just not that great of a scorer.

I can't help but laugh at this coming from a hornets fan. He scored 56 on 30 shots against you but he just isn't a good scorer?

[benchmobbin02]

Honestly I can't figure out everyone's obsession with Cousins. He was 190th in ts% because he's just not that great of a scorer. His skyhigh turnovers really kill his efficiency. Hes not nearly as bad defensively as his reputation but he's never going to be an elite defender.

Hes been surrounded by pretty bad talent most of his career but he's never even made the playoffs. I think people will have a much more accurate assessment of him once he leaves SAC and his teams continue to underachieve vs expecations.

It's not all his fault, he was just born in the wrong era. A scoring big man just doesn't matter much anymore. You'd prefer to have an impact defender. Let the guards run the offense and the wings do the shooting. Big men are just there to set screens and keep the defense honest.

If a guy with Cousins skillset can't score efficiently then that's all you really need to know. Not everyone can be Anthony davis. You're much better off building around a guy like DeAndre jordan than cousins

Haha get bored over on your board.

His true shooting dropped as he started taking more 3pts, suffered the foot injury that limited his bounce and played in Karl's system. But don't let that fool you into thinking he isnt an great scorer.


2015-2016 Turnovers
1. James Harden ▪ HOU 374
2. Russell Westbrook ▪ OKC 342
3. John Wall ▪ WAS 318
4. Rajon Rondo ▪ SAC 278
5. Paul George ▪ IND 265
6. Stephen Curry ▪ GSW 262
7. Draymond Green ▪ GSW 259
8. Kevin Durant ▪ OKC 250
9. DeMarcus Cousins ▪ SAC 249
LeBron James ▪ CLE 249

All these players are the guys carrying the load for their team which means they have the ball in their hands the majority of the time. The turnovers come with that. Doesn't make them ineffective.

I think we will see in the next 2-5 years the game come back into balance with big men holding just as much importance as wings and guards. The era we just lived thru had few skilled big guys down low. I think things will start shift a bit as these current young big men start to dominate. They will be too good for their teams to not feature them.

[KF10]

Honestly I can't figure out everyone's obsession with Cousins. He was 190th in ts% because he's just not that great of a scorer. His skyhigh turnovers really kill his efficiency. Hes not nearly as bad defensively as his reputation but he's never going to be an elite defender.

Hes been surrounded by pretty bad talent most of his career but he's never even made the playoffs. I think people will have a much more accurate assessment of him once he leaves SAC and his teams continue to underachieve vs expecations.

It's not all his fault, he was just born in the wrong era. A scoring big man just doesn't matter much anymore. You'd prefer to have an impact defender. Let the guards run the offense and the wings do the shooting. Big men are just there to set screens and keep the defense honest.

If a guy with Cousins skillset can't score efficiently then that's all you really need to know. Not everyone can be Anthony davis. You're much better off building around a guy like DeAndre jordan than cousins

Dude you just got warned by the Thunder mod for baiting a mod/board in the past 25 or so minutes. You have a long history in trolling & baiting in your short time here in RealGM.

This type of post is teetering the line.

Think very hard before you post next time.

[c3j3h]

You can't be a superstar on a team that caps out at 33 wins in 6 years. It's a fact. People around here trash on Kevin Love for being overrated, but the Wolves won 40 games in his 5th season before he was traded to Cleveland. But nobody here would dare call Love a superstar.

Superstars are talented enough to lift their team up on their shoulders and elevate the talent of everyone around them. Cousins doesn't even come close to doing those things. The fact that guys like Isaiah Thomas and Patrick Patterson left Sacramento and did bigger and better things speaks to that as well as the Kings' win totals.

Another thing about superstardom is media exposure. How often is Boogie even mentioned on a national level? How often is he mentioned POSITIVELY on a national level? Seems like every time he's making headlines it's for something bad. That's not something a superstar does. He also doesn't have any national/international endorsements. How many national TV commercials has he starred in? Even DeAndre Jordan has been featured prominently in a commercial series. And it's not just a big market thing, because Damian Lillard was featured in the same commercials.

Cousins is not a superstar. He has superstar potential but not superstar accolades.

[Sheva7]

You can't be a superstar on a team that caps out at 33 wins in 6 years. It's a fact. People around here trash on Kevin Love for being overrated, but the Wolves won 40 games in his 5th season before he was traded to Cleveland. But nobody here would dare call Love a superstar.

Kevin Love had one 40 win season and still didn't make the playoffs, before that he didn't have more than 31 wins. I would argue that the situation around Love in that 40 win season was much better than what Cousins has ever had for a full year. He had Martin and Pekovic scoring 19 and 17.5 a game and he had a great coach in Rick Adelman.

When has Cousins had a good coach and at least a decent roster around him for a full season?

His first 3 years he didn't have a good coach or a decent roster.
His 4th year i would say Malone was still learning and wasn't a great coach yet. Our roster after trading for Gay was probably good enough for a superstar to take into the playoffs but our team overall was still young and not ready yet.
His 5th year I would say the roster wasn't great but it was good enough. Malone was becoming a very good coach and things were looking great to start the year. That's when the FO stepped in and turned the season upside down.
Last year i would say the roster was also good enough, but Karl was no longer a good coach and the whole toxic environment dragged the team down.

This year i believe is the first year Cousins could potentially have a good coach and a good enough roster for the whole season. Not only that, i think this roster and coaching staff fits his game much better than anything we have had the last 5 years.

So my question to you would be, what year do you think Cousins should have led us to the playoffs if he was a superstar?

[c3j3h]

You can't be a superstar on a team that caps out at 33 wins in 6 years. It's a fact. People around here trash on Kevin Love for being overrated, but the Wolves won 40 games in his 5th season before he was traded to Cleveland. But nobody here would dare call Love a superstar.

Kevin Love had one 40 win season and still didn't make the playoffs, before that he didn't have more than 31 wins. I would argue that the situation around Love in that 40 win season was much better than what Cousins has ever had for a full year. He had Martin and Pekovic scoring 19 and 17.5 a game and he had a great coach in Rick Adelman.

When has Cousins had a good coach and at least a decent roster around him for a full season?

His first 3 years he didn't have a good coach or a decent roster.
His 4th year i would say Malone was still learning and wasn't a great coach yet. Our roster after trading for Gay was probably good enough for a superstar to take into the playoffs but our team overall was still young and not ready yet.
His 5th year I would say the roster wasn't great but it was good enough. Malone was becoming a very good coach and things were looking great to start the year. That's when the FO stepped in and turned the season upside down.
Last year i would say the roster was also good enough, but Karl was no longer a good coach and the whole toxic environment dragged the team down.

This year i believe is the first year Cousins could potentially have a good coach and a good enough roster for the whole season. Not only that, i think this roster and coaching staff fits his game much better than anything we have had the last 5 years.

So my question to you would be, what year do you think Cousins should have led us to the playoffs if he was a superstar?

I think you kinda answered your own question...

I agree that Karl was terrible here, but he is a HOF coach. I'm not sure how you can make the argument that Rick Edelman was good enough on a perennial lottery team, but Karl doesn't count as a legitimate coach.

Also, even though I was not a member of this board last year so I don't know what the general consensus around here sounded like, most Kings fans that they were a playoff team last year with Rondo...You say that Love had more help because he had Martin scoring 19ppg and Pekovic scoring 17.5ppg, well Boogie has had Rudy Gay scoring 17ppg this year and Rondo averaging a double double and leading the NBA in assists per game! Also, Pekovic missed 28 games due to injury in 2013-14 and the Wolves still won 40 games, so if anything Kevin Love was at a DISADVANTAGE in that regard.

I don't believe the Kings have had a team good enough to make the playoffs in a decade. I also don't think the Kings are good enough right now to make the playoffs next season. I do, however, believe that if Cousins was a superstar that the fan base wouldn't be giving him "credit" for FINALLY crossing the 30-win threshold in Year 6 of his career. They were good enough to win more than 30 games in the previous 2 years with Rudy also, it just didn't happen.

[Sheva7]

I think you kinda answered your own question...

I agree that Karl was terrible here, but he is a HOF coach. I'm not sure how you can make the argument that Rick Edelman was good enough on a perennial lottery team, but Karl doesn't count as a legitimate coach.

The difference here is pretty obvious. Adelman is a coach that players loved to play for, his teams always had good chemistry on and off the court. The entire locker room wanted Karl fired. Not to mention what we got last year was far from HOF Karl as far as rotations etc. Karl was not a good coach last year and was most responsible for our team under performing.

Also, even though I was not a member of this board last year so I don't know what the general consensus around here sounded like, most Kings fans that they were a playoff team last year with Rondo...You say that Love had more help because he had Martin scoring 19ppg and Pekovic scoring 17.5ppg, well Boogie has had Rudy Gay scoring 17ppg this year and Rondo averaging a double double and leading the NBA in assists per game! Also, Pekovic missed 28 games due to injury in 2013-14 and the Wolves still won 40 games, so if anything Kevin Love was at a DISADVANTAGE in that regard.

Like I said, Love had a good enough team AND a good coach but still didn't make the playoffs.
Cousins had a good enough team last year but not a good enough coach. The George Karl that we got last year was no longer capable of being a nba level coach.

I don't believe the Kings have had a team good enough to make the playoffs in a decade. I also don't think the Kings are good enough right now to make the playoffs next season. I do, however, believe that if Cousins was a superstar that the fan base wouldn't be giving him "credit" for FINALLY crossing the 30-win threshold in Year 6 of his career. They were good enough to win more than 30 games in the previous 2 years with Rudy also, it just didn't happen.

What i'm saying is yes we haven't had a real playoff level team with Cousins. But for him to be a superstar, he would take a team that is close to the playoffs. My whole point is that only the last 3 years he has had a team good enough for a superstar to carry into the playoffs. In those 3 years he has had one full season with a good coach and that was Malone's first year when Cousins was just becoming dominant. It takes more than a superstar and a decent team to win 40 games, its just not gonna happen without a capable coach.

[c3j3h]

You can't be a superstar on a team that caps out at 33 wins in 6 years. It's a fact. People around here trash on Kevin Love for being overrated, but the Wolves won 40 games in his 5th season before he was traded to Cleveland. But nobody here would dare call Love a superstar.

Superstars are talented enough to lift their team up on their shoulders and elevate the talent of everyone around them. Cousins doesn't even come close to doing those things. The fact that guys like Isaiah Thomas and Patrick Patterson left Sacramento and did bigger and better things speaks to that as well as the Kings' win totals.

Another thing about superstardom is media exposure. How often is Boogie even mentioned on a national level? How often is he mentioned POSITIVELY on a national level? Seems like every time he's making headlines it's for something bad. That's not something a superstar does. He also doesn't have any national/international endorsements. How many national TV commercials has he starred in? Even DeAndre Jordan has been featured prominently in a commercial series. And it's not just a big market thing, because Damian Lillard was featured in the same commercials.

Cousins is not a superstar. He has superstar potential but not superstar accolades.

I just wanted to point out that this is the post that you're responding to originally from me. Let me just be clear that I do not think Kevin Love is a superstar. He was the 3rd wheel on a Championship team, and didn't perform particularly well at it.

You're trying to justify Boogie's position as a superstar by saying that neither he nor Kevin Love were able to take their respective teams to the playoffs. That's just further proving my point... Unless of course you're saying that Kevin Love is a superstar.

I'm saying neither of them are superstars, because neither of them were able to do much with teams that had SOME talent around them, and neither of them made their teammates much better. They both put up gaudy stats on really bad teams.

You seem to be arguing that Love did slightly more with slightly more talent, so therefore....Boogie is a superstar for accomplishing nothing with a bad team? I think we're arguing 2 different points.

Just to be clear, again, Kevin Love is not a superstar, and neither is DeMarcus Cousins, in my mind.

[enderwilson]

Kevin Love and DMC are NBA stars and are widely regarded as such. However, there has to be a tier above them where players like Steph Curry, Kobe, LBJ and MJ can exist. Players that by virtue of their presence on the team makes them playoff competetors, if not championship contenders. Superstars basically. If Love and DMC are superstars, then what do we call the category for these other guys?

[Sheva7]

You can't be a superstar on a team that caps out at 33 wins in 6 years. It's a fact. People around here trash on Kevin Love for being overrated, but the Wolves won 40 games in his 5th season before he was traded to Cleveland. But nobody here would dare call Love a superstar.

Superstars are talented enough to lift their team up on their shoulders and elevate the talent of everyone around them. Cousins doesn't even come close to doing those things. The fact that guys like Isaiah Thomas and Patrick Patterson left Sacramento and did bigger and better things speaks to that as well as the Kings' win totals.

Another thing about superstardom is media exposure. How often is Boogie even mentioned on a national level? How often is he mentioned POSITIVELY on a national level? Seems like every time he's making headlines it's for something bad. That's not something a superstar does. He also doesn't have any national/international endorsements. How many national TV commercials has he starred in? Even DeAndre Jordan has been featured prominently in a commercial series. And it's not just a big market thing, because Damian Lillard was featured in the same commercials.

Cousins is not a superstar. He has superstar potential but not superstar accolades.

I just wanted to point out that this is the post that you're responding to originally from me. Let me just be clear that I do not think Kevin Love is a superstar. He was the 3rd wheel on a Championship team, and didn't perform particularly well at it.

You're trying to justify Boogie's position as a superstar by saying that neither he nor Kevin Love were able to take their respective teams to the playoffs. That's just further proving my point... Unless of course you're saying that Kevin Love is a superstar.

I'm saying neither of them are superstars, because neither of them were able to do much with teams that had SOME talent around them, and neither of them made their teammates much better. They both put up gaudy stats on really bad teams.

You seem to be arguing that Love did slightly more with slightly more talent, so therefore....Boogie is a superstar for accomplishing nothing with a bad team? I think we're arguing 2 different points.

Just to be clear, again, Kevin Love is not a superstar, and neither is DeMarcus Cousins, in my mind.

Let me try to make this more clear.

I do not think Kevin Love is or ever has been a superstar.
I do think Cousins has superstar level talent, whether or not he is a "superstar" player really depends on how you define it.

The point I'm trying to make is people simply say Cousins isn't a superstar because he hasn't led a team to the playoffs or at least more than 33 wins. I'm saying we can only really look at the last 3 years where he has had a decent team but still hasn't led them to enough wins. My point is that it takes more than a decent team, it also takes a decent coach for a superstar to take his team to the next level. Cousins has had 2 full years with a decent team and only one head coach. The first was Malone's first year when Cousins wasn't quite an all-star level talent yet. The second was last year when Karl was a terrible coach.

What superstar has ever taken their average team to the playoffs with a head coach as detrimental as Karl was last year?

I guess its just crazy to me that people say the Kings can never win with Cousins as the leader when he has never been put in a position by the FO to do that with everyone's full support.

All i'm trying to say is that this is the first year where we can really tell if Cousins can be that leader, or that superstar talent that elevates his team to the next level. This is the first time he could potentially have a full season with a good coach and a decent enough team. If he again fails to bring us 40+ wins and nothing crazy happens that's out of his control then I will agree that he can't be that superstar but until then we just have to wait and see.