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16-17 Trade Discussion Thread *Read mod note on pg. 35*

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#401 » by City of Trees » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:56 pm

realEAST wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
realEAST wrote:Hey guys, don't want to provoke, but what would you think about a trade like this:

WIZARDS-KINGS-ROCKETS (although possible only after Jan 15., but that could give Kings enough time to assess this seasons prospects, and also to see Beals condition)

Checked and salaries work on RealGM Trade Checker

WIZARDS:

In: Cousins, Gay, McLemore, Brewer, B. Brown (waive),
Out: Beal, Porter, Gortat, 2017 pick, 2019 pick (lotto protected)

KINGS:

In: Beal, Porter, 2017 HOU, 2017 WAS, 2019 WAS (lotto protected)
Out: Cousins, Gay, McLemore

ROCKETS:

In: Gortat
Out: Brewer, B. Brown, 2017 pick


WIZARDS add another true superstar along Wall, one who complements him excellently, and add coupe veteran pieces around them to ride out the season the best they can and that could possibly be resigned if no other better option is there (Gay, McLemore).
Ideally, they clear out some salaries and are a important factor in 2017 deep FA, where they assemble a contender caliber team around which keeps Cousins in Washington for good.

Wall-Oubre-Gay-Morris-DMC (Burke-McLemore-Brewer-Nicholson-Mahinmi)

KINGS don't go in full rebuild and it reflects Viveks wish for them to stay competitive amid moving to new Arena, but at the same time they retool and add youth and potential, along some picks. Besides, Beal and Porter are very talented players at the positions they are weak, and since Kings are probably the most unstable franchise in the league, having them under control for five years is a plus. Gay and McLemore are FAs at the end of the season and they won't stay in Sacramento. Kings form a nice foreground for a quick rebuild around young core in place and with three draft picks in upcoming, deep draft (also, they get pick in 2019, when they have to give their pick to 76-ers).

Collison-Beal-Porter-Skal-WCS (Lawson-Richardson-Casspi-Toliver-Koufos/PapaG)

ROCKETS add what they currently lack the most and thats a legit all round two way big man, capable of scoring, passing and defending, who would really fit well in their system and complement more raw Clint Capela. They also ship out bad Brewer contract, which in turn leaves them with an interesting core of Harden, Gordon, Beverly, Ariza, McDaniels, Dekker, Anderson, Capela, Harrell and Gortat, along 10-15 mil in cap to add another solid piece in FA.

Harden-Gordon-Ariza-Anderson-Gortat (Beverly-McDaniels-Dekker-Harrell-Capela)


This move might make sense for all teams because it gives Wizards fantastic combo of Wall-DMC with potential to assemble really good team around them.
Kings stay competitive as much as they are now, but get younger and more controlled players, along several draft picks.
Houston give up this years pick to add a good piece at the position they need who can go a long way into bumping their PO chances, but also have a good position before next years FA.

I know its your teams players but look at it from this point of view; would you take a package of Beal, Porter and two lotto protected picks for Wall? Probably not.

Wall and Cousins are worth More than that and we aren't even accounting for Gay and McLemore's value.

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Actually I'm a Bulls fans.
And it is two unprotected picks this year, and lotto protection in 2019.


1. Sorry about the mix up with your team

2. I didn't realize only the 2019 was protected, my bad.

3. Still don't like the trade as I feel those picks aren't worth enough to close the gap.

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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#402 » by bleeds_purple » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:29 pm

sixers238 wrote:Yo Kings fans! Wanted to get your perspective on this 3-way deal for Cousins...can't happen until Jan 15th though.

PHI out: Okafor, Henderson, 2017 LAL 1st
PHI in: McCollum, Davis

McCollum/Rodriguez/McConnell
Stauskas/Bayless/TLC
Simmons/Covington/Thompson
Illyasova/Saric/Holmes
Embiid/Noel/Davis

POR out: McCollum, Harkless, Vonleh, Davis, 2017 POR 1st, 2018 CLE 1st
POR in: Cousins, Henderson, Skal

Lillard/Shabazz
Crabbe/Henderson/Connaughton
Aminu/Turner/Quarterman
Cousins/Leonard/Layman
Plumlee/Ezeli/Skal

SAC out: Cousins, Skal
SAC in: Okafor, Harkless, Vonleh, 2017 LAL 1st, 2017 POR 1st, 2018 CLE 1st

Collison/Lawson/Temple
Afflalo/McLemore/Richardson
Gay/Casspi/Barnes
Harkless/Vonleh/Tolliver
Okafor/WCS/Koufos (Pappagianis --> D-league)


The idea that we send out Cousins and don't even get the next best player in the deal coming back to us is unpalatable. That being said the value is OK. I would push for cancellation of our pick swaps with Philly and would not want to include Skal.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#403 » by City of Trees » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:09 pm

Casspi is finished in Sac unless someone is injured or traded.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/11/21/omri-casspi-on-kings-coach-dave-joerger-we-havent-talked-since-preseason/


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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#404 » by City of Trees » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:25 am

Malachi Richardson just hit a game winner 3 on a shot contested by two defenders. While the ball was in the air Malachi started walking away towards the locker room a la Steph Curry. Wow! What a shot.. that was big time.


Edit:my stream quality sucked, turns out it was a long two not a 3.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#405 » by sacking123 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:28 am

City of Trees wrote:Malachi Richardson just hit a game winner 3 on a shot contested by two defenders. While the ball was in the air Malachi started walking away towards the locker room a la Steph Curry. Wow! What a shot.. that was big time.


Edit:my stream quality sucked, turns out it was a long two not a 3.
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That looks like it would have been awesome! Hope he gets to develop as a leader of that team


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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#406 » by realEAST » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:11 pm

City of Trees wrote:
realEAST wrote:
City of Trees wrote:I know its your teams players but look at it from this point of view; would you take a package of Beal, Porter and two lotto protected picks for Wall? Probably not.

Wall and Cousins are worth More than that and we aren't even accounting for Gay and McLemore's value.

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Actually I'm a Bulls fans.
And it is two unprotected picks this year, and lotto protection in 2019.


1. Sorry about the mix up with your team

2. I didn't realize only the 2019 was protected, my bad.

3. Still don't like the trade as I feel those picks aren't worth enough to close the gap.

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Does it move the needle at all if Gay and McLemore are swapped with Afflalo and Casspi in this deal?
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#407 » by City of Trees » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:52 pm

realEAST wrote:
City of Trees wrote:
realEAST wrote:
Actually I'm a Bulls fans.
And it is two unprotected picks this year, and lotto protection in 2019.


1. Sorry about the mix up with your team

2. I didn't realize only the 2019 was protected, my bad.

3. Still don't like the trade as I feel those picks aren't worth enough to close the gap.

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Does it move the needle at all if Gay and McLemore are swapped with Afflalo and Casspi in this deal?

Your suggestion helps narrow the value gap however I still feel like Cousins is worth far more than Beal/Porter and a couple of 1sts that wont be top 5

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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#408 » by Zaschrona » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:43 am

As both our Brooklyn picks are starting to look once again as a lock for top 5 for likely both this and next season - I wonder if this may result in a bigger interest in trading both Cousins and Gay to Boston. Especially if it looks in a month for you that play-offs are a longshot and it may be better to keep your pick than to finally send him to CHI.

Splitted into three trades to allow it to happen on 15th January:
BOS trade: Zeller, Olynyk, Mickey
SAC trade: Cousins

BOS trade: Jerebko, Brown
SAC trade: Gay

BOS trade: Young
SAC trade: Casspi

+ picks: 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS

So overall the trade would look like:
BOS trade: Zeller, Brown, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, Mickey, 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS
SAC trade: Cousins, Gay, Casspi

It is likely a third/fourth team would be needed to take on some of these players, as it is impossible to think you would take on extra 3 players.

You would be really, really bad this year, but it would result likely for you getting 2 guys in top 5 of the draft - getting them with yours and BKN pick. Plus a nice talent in Brown, plus another 3 picks and all other guys would be expirings. There is every chance you could likely trade 18 BKN pick for Okafor and Phila would cancel you the swap - first idea, there is every chance you may find something better. And so there you could then go into the next season with a young core Fultz, Brown, Giles, Okafor, Skal, Papa, WCS, Mickey or something like that. And some serious cap space, RFA Olynyk and a decent team-option contract of Zeller who you may use in a trade. It could be quite fast rebuild for you.

What do you guys think?
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#409 » by Jkam31 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:31 am

Zaschrona wrote:As both our Brooklyn picks are starting to look once again as a lock for top 5 for likely both this and next season - I wonder if this may result in a bigger interest in trading both Cousins and Gay to Boston. Especially if it looks in a month for you that play-offs are a longshot and it may be better to keep your pick than to finally send him to CHI.

Splitted into three trades to allow it to happen on 15th January:
BOS trade: Zeller, Olynyk, Mickey
SAC trade: Cousins

BOS trade: Jerebko, Brown
SAC trade: Gay

BOS trade: Young
SAC trade: Casspi

+ picks: 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS

So overall the trade would look like:
BOS trade: Zeller, Brown, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, Mickey, 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS
SAC trade: Cousins, Gay, Casspi

It is likely a third/fourth team would be needed to take on some of these players, as it is impossible to think you would take on extra 3 players.

You would be really, really bad this year, but it would result likely for you getting 2 guys in top 5 of the draft - getting them with yours and BKN pick. Plus a nice talent in Brown, plus another 3 picks and all other guys would be expirings. There is every chance you could likely trade 18 BKN pick for Okafor and Phila would cancel you the swap - first idea, there is every chance you may find something better. And so there you could then go into the next season with a young core Fultz, Brown, Giles, Okafor, Skal, Papa, WCS, Mickey or something like that. And some serious cap space, RFA Olynyk and a decent team-option contract of Zeller who you may use in a trade. It could be quite fast rebuild for you.

What do you guys think?


We arnt trading Gay and Cousins to the same team, that doesn't maximize the assets.
Also even if that Boston pick is number 1 overall still demanding 1st pick/Brown


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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#410 » by Zaschrona » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:24 pm

Jkam31 wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:As both our Brooklyn picks are starting to look once again as a lock for top 5 for likely both this and next season - I wonder if this may result in a bigger interest in trading both Cousins and Gay to Boston. Especially if it looks in a month for you that play-offs are a longshot and it may be better to keep your pick than to finally send him to CHI.

Splitted into three trades to allow it to happen on 15th January:
BOS trade: Zeller, Olynyk, Mickey
SAC trade: Cousins

BOS trade: Jerebko, Brown
SAC trade: Gay

BOS trade: Young
SAC trade: Casspi

+ picks: 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS

So overall the trade would look like:
BOS trade: Zeller, Brown, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, Mickey, 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS
SAC trade: Cousins, Gay, Casspi

It is likely a third/fourth team would be needed to take on some of these players, as it is impossible to think you would take on extra 3 players.

You would be really, really bad this year, but it would result likely for you getting 2 guys in top 5 of the draft - getting them with yours and BKN pick. Plus a nice talent in Brown, plus another 3 picks and all other guys would be expirings. There is every chance you could likely trade 18 BKN pick for Okafor and Phila would cancel you the swap - first idea, there is every chance you may find something better. And so there you could then go into the next season with a young core Fultz, Brown, Giles, Okafor, Skal, Papa, WCS, Mickey or something like that. And some serious cap space, RFA Olynyk and a decent team-option contract of Zeller who you may use in a trade. It could be quite fast rebuild for you.

What do you guys think?


We arnt trading Gay and Cousins to the same team, that doesn't maximize the assets.
Also even if that Boston pick is number 1 overall still demanding 1st pick/Brown


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We would send you both BKN picks, Brown and BOS unprotected pick (could have great value if Cousins signs his new contract elsewhere) - and for Gay MEM pick. Plus epirings. I don't know - is not that at least a reasonable package?
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#411 » by SacKingZZZ » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:05 pm

If the Kings move Cuz, which I'm not sure is in the cards at the moment, for a pick I would imagine it would be on draft night so the Kings can hand select the player they get rather than hope for luck in the lottery. Now if the trade netted a sure fire young stud it would be one thing and while I like Brown, you can't come close to calling him that quite yet.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#412 » by PaKwAn » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:16 pm

waiting that long would be a huge mistake for the kings... instead of doing it much sooner which the team then decides to tank for the teams future that would give us 2 lottery picks this year rather than only getting the nets pick and the possibility of losing our own pick to the bulls if we decided to do it that late..
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#413 » by Jkam31 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:47 pm

Zaschrona wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:As both our Brooklyn picks are starting to look once again as a lock for top 5 for likely both this and next season - I wonder if this may result in a bigger interest in trading both Cousins and Gay to Boston. Especially if it looks in a month for you that play-offs are a longshot and it may be better to keep your pick than to finally send him to CHI.

Splitted into three trades to allow it to happen on 15th January:
BOS trade: Zeller, Olynyk, Mickey
SAC trade: Cousins

BOS trade: Jerebko, Brown
SAC trade: Gay

BOS trade: Young
SAC trade: Casspi

+ picks: 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS

So overall the trade would look like:
BOS trade: Zeller, Brown, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, Mickey, 2017 BKN, 2018 BKN, 2019 MEM, 2019 BOS
SAC trade: Cousins, Gay, Casspi

It is likely a third/fourth team would be needed to take on some of these players, as it is impossible to think you would take on extra 3 players.

You would be really, really bad this year, but it would result likely for you getting 2 guys in top 5 of the draft - getting them with yours and BKN pick. Plus a nice talent in Brown, plus another 3 picks and all other guys would be expirings. There is every chance you could likely trade 18 BKN pick for Okafor and Phila would cancel you the swap - first idea, there is every chance you may find something better. And so there you could then go into the next season with a young core Fultz, Brown, Giles, Okafor, Skal, Papa, WCS, Mickey or something like that. And some serious cap space, RFA Olynyk and a decent team-option contract of Zeller who you may use in a trade. It could be quite fast rebuild for you.

What do you guys think?


We arnt trading Gay and Cousins to the same team, that doesn't maximize the assets.
Also even if that Boston pick is number 1 overall still demanding 1st pick/Brown


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We would send you both BKN picks, Brown and BOS unprotected pick (could have great value if Cousins signs his new contract elsewhere) - and for Gay MEM pick. Plus epirings. I don't know - is not that at least a reasonable package?


If you guys get Cousins we'd be getting that package anyway. You guys will be competing with 90% of the league for him so it's gonna take your best offer


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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#414 » by SacKingZZZ » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:09 pm

PaKwAn wrote:waiting that long would be a huge mistake for the kings... instead of doing it much sooner which the team then decides to tank for the teams future that would give us 2 lottery picks this year rather than only getting the nets pick and the possibility of losing our own pick to the bulls if we decided to do it that late..



It's all a game of chance. What's to say the Nets don't start un-tanking at the end of the year and the Kings end up right outside that 4-5 star player window in this draft. If the league starts shaking out to the 3 team domination it has been for a few years now you might see more teams in the tank race at the end of the season.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#415 » by Zaschrona » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:29 pm

Jkam31 wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
We arnt trading Gay and Cousins to the same team, that doesn't maximize the assets.
Also even if that Boston pick is number 1 overall still demanding 1st pick/Brown


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We would send you both BKN picks, Brown and BOS unprotected pick (could have great value if Cousins signs his new contract elsewhere) - and for Gay MEM pick. Plus epirings. I don't know - is not that at least a reasonable package?


If you guys get Cousins we'd be getting that package anyway. You guys will be competing with 90% of the league for him so it's gonna take your best offer


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And well tell me... who is going to offer you something better? Teams won't give you amazing offers just because it is Cousins - if they give you everything they have, the won't keep him longterm. Boston is one of few teams that can make you a decent offer without gutting the roster...
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#416 » by Zaschrona » Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:31 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:If the Kings move Cuz, which I'm not sure is in the cards at the moment, for a pick I would imagine it would be on draft night so the Kings can hand select the player they get rather than hope for luck in the lottery. Now if the trade netted a sure fire young stud it would be one thing and while I like Brown, you can't come close to calling him that quite yet.

Cousins' value is going down if you wait for draft night. You may get 3 picks and some decent players for him right now. You may get only two for him and nobody else on the draft night...
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#417 » by SacKingZZZ » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:09 am

Zaschrona wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:If the Kings move Cuz, which I'm not sure is in the cards at the moment, for a pick I would imagine it would be on draft night so the Kings can hand select the player they get rather than hope for luck in the lottery. Now if the trade netted a sure fire young stud it would be one thing and while I like Brown, you can't come close to calling him that quite yet.

Cousins' value is going down if you wait for draft night. You may get 3 picks and some decent players for him right now. You may get only two for him and nobody else on the draft night...



It depends on what you call value. The only value that matters is the Kings ending up with the draft prospect they want if that's what they desire. And perhaps teams outside of that window realize they have to do whatever they can to get into that picture at the start of next year. The only issue would be if a team like Boston decided to go another route with the assets they have beforehand. I'm not sure there is another Cousins level player even in the discussion at the moment although, it's not impossible that Cousins himself isn't in the discussion either. I think the Kings are leaning towards letting it ride and testing Cuz's loyalty when his deal is up.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#418 » by Zaschrona » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:13 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:
SacKingZZZ wrote:If the Kings move Cuz, which I'm not sure is in the cards at the moment, for a pick I would imagine it would be on draft night so the Kings can hand select the player they get rather than hope for luck in the lottery. Now if the trade netted a sure fire young stud it would be one thing and while I like Brown, you can't come close to calling him that quite yet.

Cousins' value is going down if you wait for draft night. You may get 3 picks and some decent players for him right now. You may get only two for him and nobody else on the draft night...



It depends on what you call value. The only value that matters is the Kings ending up with the draft prospect they want if that's what they desire. And perhaps teams outside of that window realize they have to do whatever they can to get into that picture at the start of next year. The only issue would be if a team like Boston decided to go another route with the assets they have beforehand. I'm not sure there is another Cousins level player even in the discussion at the moment although, it's not impossible that Cousins himself isn't in the discussion either. I think the Kings are leaning towards letting it ride and testing Cuz's loyalty when his deal is up.

I am quite sure we can decide to draft a player and sign him for our team while we add a max FA. But yeah, it looks like that Cousins is the only realistic option for a trade for star from our point of view. Maybe Whiteside, but he likely won't be available.
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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#419 » by Jkam31 » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:42 am

Zaschrona wrote:
Jkam31 wrote:
Zaschrona wrote:We would send you both BKN picks, Brown and BOS unprotected pick (could have great value if Cousins signs his new contract elsewhere) - and for Gay MEM pick. Plus epirings. I don't know - is not that at least a reasonable package?


If you guys get Cousins we'd be getting that package anyway. You guys will be competing with 90% of the league for him so it's gonna take your best offer


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And well tell me... who is going to offer you something better? Teams won't give you amazing offers just because it is Cousins - if they give you everything they have, the won't keep him longterm. Boston is one of few teams that can make you a decent offer without gutting the roster...


So without Gay what's the offer? Are you saying it wold only be Brown/ '17 nets/Smart.

Trades I'd take over that:

Dallas: Barnes/Top 5 pick
Phoenix: Bender/Warren/Top 5 pick
Miami: Whiteside/Top 5 pick
LaL: Russell/Randle/future 1st
Denver: Jokic/Murray/Chandler/1st


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Re: Off-Season Trade Discussion 

Post#420 » by Zaschrona » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:54 am

Jkam31 wrote:So without Gay what's the offer? Are you saying it wold only be Brown/ '17 nets/Smart.

Trades I'd take over that:

Dallas: Barnes/Top 5 pick
Phoenix: Bender/Warren/Top 5 pick
Miami: Whiteside/Top 5 pick
LaL: Russell/Randle/future 1st
Denver: Jokic/Murray/Chandler/1st

I can imagine it would be Brown/Zeller/BKN 17/BKN 18/BOS 19. That MEM 19 would be for Gay.

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