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ItsDanger wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Dick and Furphy are very different types of players.

Yeah, yeah. Very different. Furphy is an inch taller and has a cool accent. And a mullet!

Dick is a better passer, better off ball instincts so far. Furphy is a better rebounder and on ball defender.

Furphy is a horrible on ball defender lol

azcatz11 wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
Yeah, yeah. Very different. Furphy is an inch taller and has a cool accent. And a mullet!

Dick is a better passer, better off ball instincts so far. Furphy is a better rebounder and on ball defender.

Furphy is a horrible on ball defender lol

Dick is a horrible on ball defender currently, Furphy is better than horrible. Not saying either is awesome. And off ball role in NBA matters a lot. If you're trying to draft all stars at every draft slot, expect failure

ItsDanger wrote:

azcatz11 wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Dick is a better passer, better off ball instincts so far. Furphy is a better rebounder and on ball defender.

Furphy is a horrible on ball defender lol

Dick is a horrible on ball defender currently, Furphy is better than horrible. Not saying either is awesome. And off ball role in NBA matters a lot. If you're trying to draft all stars at every draft slot, expect failure

Vecenie said he’s the worst college defender he’s ever seen. He may be being a bit hyperbolic

azcatz11 wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:

azcatz11 wrote:
Furphy is a horrible on ball defender lol

Dick is a horrible on ball defender currently, Furphy is better than horrible. Not saying either is awesome. And off ball role in NBA matters a lot. If you're trying to draft all stars at every draft slot, expect failure

Vecenie said he’s the worst college defender he’s ever seen. He may be being a bit hyperbolic

His off ball defense is really bad, not uncommon for freshmen, but not a big deal in college. The tools are there, effort especially. He wouldn't be starting if Self agreed with Vecenie. Who's opinion do you value more?

EvanZ wrote:

SeattleJazzFan wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
It's funny you mention 3PT% but you don't mention how few 3s he's taken (74 vs 200) and you don't appear to care to look at his FT%. He's a tall white maybe-shooter. That's about it.

i mean, 2/3 of his FGA are threes. he's taken 75 threes and 39 twos. making 43% of those threes - i'm going to go ahead and call him a shooter. and before you point again to his FT shooting, 75 3pt attempts is a much better sample than 34 FT attempts.

It's actually likely not because free throw percentages settle much faster than 3pt %'s. Steph Curry isn't ever a bad free throw shooter in 34 attempts. But in 75 3pt attempts he has had bad weeks. To him that is literally like 6-7 games worth of 3s.

To really gauge 3pt shooting in college I've come to the realization you probably can't really be sure about shooters until they get to 300 or even 400 3s. And that's usually not even possible as a Freshman obviously.

But by all means don't let me tell you how to drink in the stats however you want.

steph and 92% FT shooter never has a 68% FT shooting stretch, but every 80% FT shooter will have such a stretch.

SeattleJazzFan wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

SeattleJazzFan wrote:
i mean, 2/3 of his FGA are threes. he's taken 75 threes and 39 twos. making 43% of those threes - i'm going to go ahead and call him a shooter. and before you point again to his FT shooting, 75 3pt attempts is a much better sample than 34 FT attempts.

It's actually likely not because free throw percentages settle much faster than 3pt %'s. Steph Curry isn't ever a bad free throw shooter in 34 attempts. But in 75 3pt attempts he has had bad weeks. To him that is literally like 6-7 games worth of 3s.

To really gauge 3pt shooting in college I've come to the realization you probably can't really be sure about shooters until they get to 300 or even 400 3s. And that's usually not even possible as a Freshman obviously.

But by all means don't let me tell you how to drink in the stats however you want.

steph and 92% FT shooter never has a 68% FT shooting stretch, but every 80% FT shooter will have such a stretch.

So will 70% FT shooters. Basically we have zero information about his shooting (other than rate which is good) so I'm not sure why you are choosing to think it's elite. Make no mistake, he has to be an elite shooter to be an NBA player. There's really no other selling point is there?

ItsDanger wrote:Dick and Furphy are very different types of players.

This. If Furphy were black this would not even be a thing. I liked Gradey( ) and I like Furphy. I think they are very different. Also, I think they are in very different development arcs. Gradey Dick was better younger and Furphy is quickly getting better as a player. So these 1 to 1 comparisons of players miss this sometimes.

Furphy got bodied last night against the KSU guards. There was a play where one of the KSU smaller guys abused him and drove him right under the hoop. I really couldn't imagine him guarding any NBA player with his slight frame and with his position, it's a major red flag. I don't think he's one and done

azcatz11 wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:

azcatz11 wrote:
Furphy is a horrible on ball defender lol

Dick is a horrible on ball defender currently, Furphy is better than horrible. Not saying either is awesome. And off ball role in NBA matters a lot. If you're trying to draft all stars at every draft slot, expect failure

Vecenie said he’s the worst college defender he’s ever seen. He may be being a bit hyperbolic

Vecenie is a clown. As far as Furphy's defense he's an adequate on-ball defender against his position but struggles mightily with smaller guards and a good off-ball defender due to his size, BBIQ and quick hands. He'll struggle mightily to defend in the NBA until he can pack on some muscle allowing him to guard the bigger wings he'll be matched up against but that should happen naturally. Hopefully he hits the weights too.

Comparing his 3pt attempts to Dick's isn't fair since Furphy has only started like 8 games or so because they were honoring their commitment to top prospect Elmarko Jackson until it became obvious he blows. Dick started every game from jump. They are similar prospects and they play the same role for Kansas. Both are 2/3 in the NBA

EvanZ wrote:It's actually likely not because free throw percentages settle much faster than 3pt %'s. Steph Curry isn't ever a bad free throw shooter in 34 attempts. But in 75 3pt attempts he has had bad weeks. To him that is literally like 6-7 games worth of 3s.

34 attempts, especially spread out over 22 games, is not a sample size worth taking too seriously even when it comes to FTs. Curry is an extreme example. He's the best free throw shooter (and shooter overall) of all time. Let's take another ATG shooter, Klay Thompson. Nobody expects Furphy to be a Klay-level shooter and yet Klay shot 28/40 (70%) on FTs over a 7 game stretch in 2013. He had a stretch like that in college, too. That took one minute to look up. An 80% FT shooter will have stretches where they shoot in the high 60s/low 70s just like they will have stretches where they'll shoot in the 90s over 30-40 FTA.

The-Power wrote:

EvanZ wrote:It's actually likely not because free throw percentages settle much faster than 3pt %'s. Steph Curry isn't ever a bad free throw shooter in 34 attempts. But in 75 3pt attempts he has had bad weeks. To him that is literally like 6-7 games worth of 3s.

34 attempts, especially spread out over 22 games, is not a sample size worth taking too seriously even when it comes to FTs. Curry is an extreme example. He's the best free throw shooter (and shooter overall) of all time. Let's take another ATG shooter, Klay Thompson. Nobody expects Furphy to be a Klay-level shooter and yet Klay shot 28/40 (70%) on FTs over a 7 game stretch in 2013. He had a stretch like that in college, too. That took one minute to look up. An 80% FT shooter will have stretches where they shoot in the high 60s/low 70s just like they will have stretches where they'll shoot in the 90s over 30-40 FTA.

So you had to go back to 2013 to find one Klay had like that. How many stretches like that has Klay had in a decade? Is it likely that Furphy just happened to have one of them in his Freshman season? Hmm....

EvanZ wrote:

The-Power wrote:

EvanZ wrote:It's actually likely not because free throw percentages settle much faster than 3pt %'s. Steph Curry isn't ever a bad free throw shooter in 34 attempts. But in 75 3pt attempts he has had bad weeks. To him that is literally like 6-7 games worth of 3s.

34 attempts, especially spread out over 22 games, is not a sample size worth taking too seriously even when it comes to FTs. Curry is an extreme example. He's the best free throw shooter (and shooter overall) of all time. Let's take another ATG shooter, Klay Thompson. Nobody expects Furphy to be a Klay-level shooter and yet Klay shot 28/40 (70%) on FTs over a 7 game stretch in 2013. He had a stretch like that in college, too. That took one minute to look up. An 80% FT shooter will have stretches where they shoot in the high 60s/low 70s just like they will have stretches where they'll shoot in the 90s over 30-40 FTA.

So you had to go back to 2013 to find one Klay had like that. How many stretches like that has Klay had in a decade? Is it likely that Furphy just happened to have one of them in his Freshman season? Hmm....

You're moving goalposts now. You brought up Curry (as if he's a sensible reference point) to argue a point that's not as clear as you want it to be. I just used one example for illustration purposes. Feel free to look for other good shooters that have had bad stretches because there are obviously hundreds of them. Or if you want to save some time you can look up the FT% of Paul George and Trey Murphy during their Freshman seasons. And before you ask: that's just two out of three random good shooters I first thought of – there are many more that don't even require looking at game logs or splits to identify small-sample stretches.

The-Power wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

The-Power wrote:34 attempts, especially spread out over 22 games, is not a sample size worth taking too seriously even when it comes to FTs. Curry is an extreme example. He's the best free throw shooter (and shooter overall) of all time. Let's take another ATG shooter, Klay Thompson. Nobody expects Furphy to be a Klay-level shooter and yet Klay shot 28/40 (70%) on FTs over a 7 game stretch in 2013. He had a stretch like that in college, too. That took one minute to look up. An 80% FT shooter will have stretches where they shoot in the high 60s/low 70s just like they will have stretches where they'll shoot in the 90s over 30-40 FTA.

So you had to go back to 2013 to find one Klay had like that. How many stretches like that has Klay had in a decade? Is it likely that Furphy just happened to have one of them in his Freshman season? Hmm....

You're moving goalposts now. You brought up Curry (as if he's a sensible reference point) to argue a point that's not as clear as you want it to be. I just used one example for illustration purposes. Feel free to look for other good shooters that have had bad stretches because there are obviously hundreds of them. Or if you want to save some time you can look up the FT% of Paul George and Trey Murphy during their Freshman seasons. And before you ask: that's just two out of three random good shooters I first thought of – there are many more that don't even require looking at game logs or splits to identify small-sample stretches.

I'm not moving any goalposts. I'm giving you probabilistic reasoning here. You can choose to do with that information what you will. But I'll tell you thins, out of 5000 college players some of them are always going to have good and bad stretches. That's just how this works. Increasing sample size is a logical way to filter out the chaff.

How’s this kid going lately?

I think he's just physically underdeveloped right now and has decent instincts defensively. Maybe I've just caught good games from him, I love his game from what I've seen.

babyjax13 wrote:I think he's just physically underdeveloped right now and has decent instincts defensively. Maybe I've just caught good games from him, I love his game from what I've seen.

Might be worth noting he is coming from Australia and almost certainly was not getting the type of nutrition and weight training most of the AAU kids are receiving. Even that young its a full blown regiment in the states.

He's a late bloomer, he wasn't even selected in the U18 Vic Metro state team as a junior in 2021. He's been on a parabolic improvement curve from then to now.

Definitely needs to get stronger, but I still think he ends up in the lotto this year

6'9ish. Has shown above-average shooting. Seems like a good choice for a team looking for an off-ball forward who won't hurt them on either end while also helping them on the boards. He likely transitions into a stretch 4 as he gets stronger and puts on muscle. Plus youth film shows he might have more on ball juice than he is showing at Kansas.

MemphisX wrote:6'9ish. Has shown above-average shooting. Seems like a good choice for a team looking for an off-ball forward who won't hurt them on either end while also helping them on the boards. He likely transitions into a stretch 4 as he gets stronger and puts on muscle. Plus youth film shows he might have more on ball juice than he is showing at Kansas.

Harrison Barnes with oiled joints? (Say this b/c Harrison is about as stiff fluidly as a large rock)

BlazersBroncos wrote:

MemphisX wrote:6'9ish. Has shown above-average shooting. Seems like a good choice for a team looking for an off-ball forward who won't hurt them on either end while also helping them on the boards. He likely transitions into a stretch 4 as he gets stronger and puts on muscle. Plus youth film shows he might have more on ball juice than he is showing at Kansas.

Harrison Barnes with oiled joints? (Say this b/c Harrison is about as stiff fluidly as a large rock)

HB would not be a terrible outcome.