Why do people like Perry Jones?

MarJJMar · Post #41 » by **MarJJMar** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:28 pm

Worst Case Anthony Randolph..

but best case Perry Jones is a better Chris Bosh and that is pretty good. He was one of the most efficient players in college so how did he not produce? Is it his fault he played on a crap Baylor team with crappy PG play?

If the Suns can draft him in the lottery and keep Nash around I think Perry Jones can be the ROY.

Dr Positivity · Post #42 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:41 pm

Teen Girl Squad wrote:Perry Jones is the ultimate example of the backwards logic you see in basketball drafts. He is immensely talented but appears to have no basketball skills whatsoever, therefore, he absolutely must have UNLIMITED potential to one do everything well. How about, he just sucks at basketball? Gerald Green, Joe Alexander etc... have proven that uber athletes can still spectacularly fail at the next level. To me it looks like someone who plays basketball only because he has the physical ability to do so.

But this isn't true. One of the reasons Perry's potential is so exciting is he has guard skills in a 6'11 body - and the thing I think people keep underestimating is that he's one of the best finishers in the NCAA. The bigs without basketball skills in this draft are John Henson and Jonas Valanciunas. And I think they'll both be busts.

ManualRam · Post #43 » by **ManualRam** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:44 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Teen Girl Squad wrote:Perry Jones is the ultimate example of the backwards logic you see in basketball drafts. He is immensely talented but appears to have no basketball skills whatsoever, therefore, he absolutely must have UNLIMITED potential to one do everything well. How about, he just sucks at basketball? Gerald Green, Joe Alexander etc... have proven that uber athletes can still spectacularly fail at the next level. To me it looks like someone who plays basketball only because he has the physical ability to do so.

But this isn't true. One of the reasons Perry's potential is so exciting is he has guard skills in a 6'11 body - and the thing I think people keep underestimating is that he's one of the best finishers in the NCAA. The bigs without basketball skills in this draft are John Henson and Jonas Valanciunas. And I think they'll both be busts.

people really need to stop saying he has guard skills. he doesnt.

MarJJMar · Post #44 » by **MarJJMar** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:59 pm

ManualRam wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:
Teen Girl Squad wrote:Perry Jones is the ultimate example of the backwards logic you see in basketball drafts. He is immensely talented but appears to have no basketball skills whatsoever, therefore, he absolutely must have UNLIMITED potential to one do everything well. How about, he just sucks at basketball? Gerald Green, Joe Alexander etc... have proven that uber athletes can still spectacularly fail at the next level. To me it looks like someone who plays basketball only because he has the physical ability to do so.

But this isn't true. One of the reasons Perry's potential is so exciting is he has guard skills in a 6'11 body - and the thing I think people keep underestimating is that he's one of the best finishers in the NCAA. The bigs without basketball skills in this draft are John Henson and Jonas Valanciunas. And I think they'll both be busts.

people really need to stop saying he has guard skills. he doesnt.

Maybe not but for a freshman 6'11 big guy he has very good ball handling and perimeter skills that look like he could be exceptional in those areas with more polish.

Jazzfan12 · Post #45 » by **Jazzfan12** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:07 pm

Maybe not but for a freshman 6'11 big guy he has very good ball handling and perimeter skills that look like he could be exceptional in those areas with more polish.

Dwight, Kwame, Oden, and Darko had better guard skills.

ManualRam · Post #46 » by **ManualRam** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:31 pm

MarJJMar wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:
But this isn't true. One of the reasons Perry's potential is so exciting is he has guard skills in a 6'11 body - and the thing I think people keep underestimating is that he's one of the best finishers in the NCAA. The bigs without basketball skills in this draft are John Henson and Jonas Valanciunas. And I think they'll both be busts.

people really need to stop saying he has guard skills. he doesnt.

Maybe not but for a freshman 6'11 big guy he has very good ball handling and perimeter skills that look like he could be exceptional in those areas with more polish.

i think he has above average ball-handling skill for a 6'11 guy. thats all i'll agree with. i dont ever see him utilizing that skill in games though. you could be the most skilled player in the world but it doesnt mean anything if you're not able to apply those skills in a game.
thats why i keep referring to his empty gym skills.

eitanr · Post #47 » by **eitanr** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:45 pm

None of his game seems to warrant any direct basketball skills just pure athleticsm, mobility and length. With those in mind he does seem to echo more of what Gerald Green, Rodney White, Stromile Swift and even Ty Thomas had on draft day.

I just feel better drafting players that have exhibited some basketball skills than those that are shaped well and can run track. I know Dick ViTale used to have a hissy fit whenever ESPN's NBA draft coverage came on and people were talking about heights, speed, measurements etc...He'd be like "are we drafting for the Olympics or the NBA?" which is a good point.

I think a lot of GMs see some extreme successes that were raw talents on draft night namely guys like KG or Amare Stoudemire and how they seemed like guys with extreme length etc. The only difference is those guys had more skills. Especially if you're going to be pegged as a wing slot you better have some true basketball skills and not just be measured accordingly.

MarJJMar · Post #48 » by **MarJJMar** » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:46 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:
Maybe not but for a freshman 6'11 big guy he has very good ball handling and perimeter skills that look like he could be exceptional in those areas with more polish.

Dwight, Kwame, Oden, and Darko had better guard skills.

um no..

Dwight couldn't even hit a 10 foot jumper and neither could Kwame or Oden what a joke.

Kwame Brown , Stone Hands, seriously..

Pass the ball · Post #49 » by **Pass the ball** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:02 am

^^
Those guys had no handles...

Jazzfan12 · Post #50 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:24 am

1. Kwame Brown (6-11 240 lbs.) Glynn Academy (HS)

Positives: The most gifted player in the draft, Brown is a great athlete with exceptional basketball skills. He can handle the ball like a guard and has a good-looking stroke from 15 to 17 feet. Brown also has good floor vision and passes extremely well. Brown is currently at his best when he faces up and takes people off the dribble using an excellent crossover dribble. Defensively, Brown is a devastating shotblocker with superb leaping ability, timing and reach. Because of his combination of size, strength and skill, Brown is often compared to Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett. At this point, Brown has a much more NBA-ready physique than Garnett had coming out of high school.

Negatives: Unfortunately, Brown does not enjoy posting up offensively and takes far too many three-pointers. Despite Garnett-level skills, Brown has yet to demonstrate the burning competitiveness that Garnett exhibited at the same stage of development.

Prognosis: Perhaps the best way to describe Kwame Brown is to say that he has the frame and physical skills of an Antonio McDyess and the basketball skills of a young Danny Manning. Brown could develop into a potential franchise player if he works hard on his game. Peak Projection: 22 ppg 10 rpg 4 apg 2.5 bpg

http://www.foulshots.com/Analysis/2001n ... outing.htm

And yet Kwame had no guard skills in the NBA. Perry Jones in high school was a worse ball handler and shooter than Kwame in high school, why is Jones being considered to be a wing when he's shown lesser ability than Kwame who can barely play center offensively? Anyone can dribble and shoot threes in high school, Perry Jones cannot dribble at an NBA level, he couldn't beat centers off the dribble in college! He just sucks at everything other than dunking.

Jazzfan12 · Post #51 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:42 am

Darko scouting report:

Strengths: Solid athlete who can run the floor and jump like few others his size ... Creative scorer who understands how to set-up his defender off the dribble ... Excellent finisher when receiving the ball on the break or out on the perimeter as he can cut to the lane and even dunk in traffic ... On defense he is an excellent help defender who shows promise of being an adequate shot-blocker... Does a very good job of using his long arms to grab most rebounds around his area despite usually being physically out-matched by his opponents ... Can be a nightmare for opposing players to defend due to his versatility as he is too quick for most power forwards and too tall for most small forwards to defend in the post... Excellent ball handler for his size ... Plays extremely aggressive and wont back down from a challenge ... Competitive, he'll do whatever it takes to win ... Shows court awareness beyond his years as he will adjust his game according to how the defense plays him ... Can shoot the ball from 20 feet with consistency and even has the ability to extend out to the three point line ... Has a very high basketball IQ and sees plays before they occur... Good passer who is blessed with solid court vision. Double teams rarely bother him ... Shows soft touch around the basket... Owns a solid hesitation dribble move he uses to bait his defender out of the paint. As soon as his defender plays his shot, Milicic will dribble into the lane for the quick lay-up ...

Weakness: Has problems at times holding his position on the low blocks due to his lack of body strength ... Offensively his back to the basket skills are still in the developmental stages as he prefers to face the basket... Needs to continue to improve his upper body strength although this should be no surprise when you consider his age ... Unlike most young players defensively he shows above average skills but it's the basic stuff he'll need to improve on ... Perimeter defensive skills such as anticipation and playing the passing lanes ... As far as working on his low post defense, strength and experience are the main detracting factors ... Tends to put the ball on the floor a little too much after getting an offensive rebound ... Ball protection is a area of concern as he can get careless at times ... Needs to work on getting rebounds out of position ... When posting up Milicic should improve on getting wider so he can give guards a bigger target when they pass into the post...

http://www.thedraftreview.com/index.php ... iew&id=664

Jazzfan12 · Post #52 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:51 am

Dwight:

COMPARATIVE UPSIDE: Kevin Garnett, Shawn Kemp COMPARATIVE DOWNSIDE: Kwame Brown

ROLE PROJECTION: Immediate starter, future All-Star.

POSITIVES: Howard is a matchup problem waiting to happen. He is long, has great speed and leaping ability, can handle the ball, shoot from 18 feet and operate in the post. Moreover, Howard is equally adept in the half-court and up-tempo situations, and he is anticipated to be a productive rebounder and shot-blocker on the defensive end. Off the court, Howard is a devout Christian who is not expected to fall into trouble or upset team chemistry.

SHORTCOMINGS: Deciding whether he wants to be a small forward, power forward or center, and then adjusting his game and physique accordingly, would allow Howard to better fit into the NBA game. Despite his ability to play all three frontcourt positions, his body and low post game are weak for a center or power forward and his face-up game needs work at the 3-spot. Additionally, questions surrounding Howard's mean streak (or lack thereof) have been raised. After the Kwame Brown/Tyson Chandler/Eddy Curry debacles, clubs have put more emphasis on examining a player's intensity level.

So yeah, all three were projected as SFs and had "guard skills" yet in the NBA none of them can dribble, and it's the say for Jones. Jones needs to become an interior player, he has no shot whatsoever on the wing.

EddieJonesFan · Post #53 » by **EddieJonesFan** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 9:49 am

eitanr wrote:None of his game seems to warrant any direct basketball skills just pure athleticsm, mobility and length. With those in mind he does seem to echo more of what Gerald Green, Rodney White, Stromile Swift and even Ty Thomas had on draft day.

I just feel better drafting players that have exhibited some basketball skills than those that are shaped well and can run track. I know Dick ViTale used to have a hissy fit whenever ESPN's NBA draft coverage came on and people were talking about heights, speed, measurements etc...He'd be like "are we drafting for the Olympics or the NBA?" which is a good point.

I think a lot of GMs see some extreme successes that were raw talents on draft night namely guys like KG or Amare Stoudemire and how they seemed like guys with extreme length etc. The only difference is those guys had more skills. Especially if you're going to be pegged as a wing slot you better have some true basketball skills and not just be measured accordingly.

Amare was pretty raw offensively coming out of HS.

mattg · Post #54 » by **mattg** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 2:09 pm

most people have already touched on why I don't like Jones at all as a prospect, but I feel it's worth mentioning...how many 6'11'' SFs have been successful that weren't EXTREMELY good perimeter shooters? The only guy I can think of off the top of my head is Lamar Odom, and even still he can knock down jumpers from anywhere and can play the 4 a lot. All the other huge SFs (Durant, Gallinari, Hedo, Peja, Detlef Schremph, Mullin, etc) that have been successful have been deadeye shooters. I just don't see how you can play Perry Jones on the wing in the NBA. What's he good at from that position offensively? Crashing the glass or cutting to the rim?

Post #55 » by **5DOM** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 2:58 pm

Players can always improve their jumpers in case you didn't know

Pass the ball · Post #56 » by **Pass the ball** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:03 pm

mattg wrote:most people have already touched on why I don't like Jones at all as a prospect, but I feel it's worth mentioning...how many 6'11'' SFs have been successful that weren't EXTREMELY good perimeter shooters? The only guy I can think of off the top of my head is Lamar Odom, and even still he can knock down jumpers from anywhere and can play the 4 a lot. All the other huge SFs (Durant, Gallinari, Hedo, Peja, Detlef Schremph, Mullin, etc) that have been successful have been deadeye shooters. I just don't see how you can play Perry Jones on the wing in the NBA. What's he good at from that position offensively? Crashing the glass or cutting to the rim?

Shooting is probably the easiest thing to work on. You can't teach size + good handles + mobility.

Jazzfan12 · Post #57 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:45 pm

Pass the ball wrote:
mattg wrote:most people have already touched on why I don't like Jones at all as a prospect, but I feel it's worth mentioning...how many 6'11'' SFs have been successful that weren't EXTREMELY good perimeter shooters? The only guy I can think of off the top of my head is Lamar Odom, and even still he can knock down jumpers from anywhere and can play the 4 a lot. All the other huge SFs (Durant, Gallinari, Hedo, Peja, Detlef Schremph, Mullin, etc) that have been successful have been deadeye shooters. I just don't see how you can play Perry Jones on the wing in the NBA. What's he good at from that position offensively? Crashing the glass or cutting to the rim?

Shooting is probably the easiest thing to work on. You can't teach size + good handles + mobility.

Well, he doesn't have good handles.

MarJJMar · Post #58 » by **MarJJMar** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 7:00 pm

Perry Jones won't be a SF..

mattg · Post #59 » by **mattg** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 9:24 pm

Pass the ball wrote:
mattg wrote:most people have already touched on why I don't like Jones at all as a prospect, but I feel it's worth mentioning...how many 6'11'' SFs have been successful that weren't EXTREMELY good perimeter shooters? The only guy I can think of off the top of my head is Lamar Odom, and even still he can knock down jumpers from anywhere and can play the 4 a lot. All the other huge SFs (Durant, Gallinari, Hedo, Peja, Detlef Schremph, Mullin, etc) that have been successful have been deadeye shooters. I just don't see how you can play Perry Jones on the wing in the NBA. What's he good at from that position offensively? Crashing the glass or cutting to the rim?

Shooting is probably the easiest thing to work on. You can't teach size + good handles + mobility.

well obviously shooting can be improved, but Perry Jones hasn't shown anything near what those those guys I mentioned had when they came out when talking about shooting. It was a point that nearly all the successful SFs who have been around Jones size were good because they were able to use their size in combination with incredible jump shooting ability. People have been raving about Jones ability to play on the perimeter and as the 'next T-Mac' for years, and I still haven't see that ability showcased at a high level. The only time I've ever seen him utilize his ball handling effectively was when going coast to coast, but not creating in isolation or in the flow of the offense much at all.

Elden Payton · Post #60 » by **Elden Payton** » Wed Apr 6, 2011 7:27 am

I think perry jones will be fine in the nba, he will be a 4 imo. he does have handles aswell just not good enough handles to play the 3 in the L, though I believe he has the potential to exploit many 4's with his first step & has good hands though he has yet to show good hands in the post against longer & more athletic 4's. A lot of the reason he struggled this year is 1. playing at a smaller school who's offense was built exclusively around LaceDarius Dunn & 2. his attitude.

he would of been better off going to a power program imo.