Damian Lillard: a star in the making?

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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#41 » by Tave » Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:50 am

ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#42 » by ManualRam » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:38 am

Tave wrote:
ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.


no. none of the aforementioned guys get great elevation on their jumper, especially in comparison to the "prototype," ray allen. bibby, great elevation? no.
when a player has the quickness to get his defender on his heels AND he has a quick release, he really doesnt need great elevation on his jumper.
not every player has to shoot the ball like kobe, jordan or ray allen. rarely do you see a PG with that much elevation on their jumper. what's more important is if they have the ability to get off a clean, accurate release. lillard has that. outside of maybe russell westbrook and derrick rose, you will hardly ever see PGs elevate that high to raise up and shoot in defender's faces like that. there are other ways for PGs to get easier shots than that such as spot ups, shooting off of ball screens and stepbacks. lillard has those shots in his arsenal. i'd be more concerned with his shot release if lillard didnt' have a quick shot release and didn't have the quickness to get all the way to the cup.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#43 » by Tave » Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:37 pm

I have never heard that PGs and SGs should cultivate different shooting forms.

And yes, prime Bibby had good elevation, especially on the move.





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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#44 » by ManualRam » Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:54 pm

thanks for providing visual evidence that prime bibby didnt get great elevation on his jumper. bibby and elevation shouldnt even be used in the same sentence in a positive manner. i mean he was a guy who even shot on the way up before he reached his peak on a lot of his shots. more elevation is needed on jumpers on the move because it's more difficult to square up while on the move. the elevation on his jumpers on the move look kinda like some of these on-the-move shots. notice the different elevations b/t on-the-move shots and spots ups or pull ups off of ball screens.



it might sound counter-intuitive, but the more a player plays in space, the less elevation and high release is needed. if you think of bigs who are always playing in traffic and are closely guarded, they need that high release to get their shots over shot contests. you think about guards and swingmen like kobe, jordan, prime t-mac where they have that ability to pull up and shoot over even larger defenders (without having to step back), turn over their shoulder on the block to make tough shots over defenders, mid-post extended pull ups off of isos or tight curls, etc. they NEED that extra elevation and high release. smaller guards (not named rose or westbrook) dont have that luxury of elevating over larger defenders, which is why you hardly ever see PGs facing up mid-post extended, running flex cuts for elbow jumpers or in the post taking those kind of shots.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#45 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:38 pm

Lillard is going to have to adjust to NBA type defenders. He will get a very fair share of his shots blocked or altered by length/athleticism that is he not used to. How he adjusts will determine how good he becomes.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#46 » by teamjosh04 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:21 pm

I just want to be on record in saying that you all are overrating Lillard. Although his elevation on the jumper has nothing to do with it. He will be better than Bayless, but I dont ever see him as a top 10 point guard.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#47 » by lilojmayo » Sat Sep 1, 2012 10:38 pm

Tave wrote:
ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.


I don't know why basketball fans in general overrate "elevation on jumpers". I sware its like Micheal Jordan spoiled everyone beccause he had insane elevation on his , same with Ray Allen. Chris Paul one of the PG and shooters in the NBA barely even gets off the ground even, on pullups being 6ft flat. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irivng, Bibby etc etc.

Does the ball go in or not that's all that matters. Damian is a lights out scorer. 47% FG 41 %3pt 89% FT in college. You can't fake those numbers.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#48 » by GreenRiddler » Tue Sep 4, 2012 3:22 am

teamjosh04 wrote:I just want to be on record in saying that you all are overrating Lillard. Although his elevation on the jumper has nothing to do with it. He will be better than Bayless, but I dont ever see him as a top 10 point guard.

Come back in March bra bra. I need a new sig.. 8-)
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#49 » by GreenRiddler » Tue Sep 4, 2012 3:24 am

And for the stuff about elevation and low release..did you not watch SL and I know it is just SL but still...also look at guys like K-Mart and Eric Gordon.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#50 » by Shem » Tue Sep 4, 2012 4:15 am

More Lillard "Rookie of the Year" hype:

Predicting who is going to win Rookie of the Year is a lot like trying to predict this winter’s snowfall totals in the first week of September — we have some broad trends to go on but the specifics are ahead of us still. It’s a guess.

My guess: Damian Lillard of the Portland Trail Blazers.

There are a few reasons for this. One is that he is better than people realized coming in the draft — he went all the way up to No. 6 but came from off the radar. One of the key reasons he wasn’t higher was he played at Weber State in Utah, a school people end up at as a safety school and one without great competition in basketball. Team GMs had to sell owners and fans Lillard was not a long shot pick.

When I saw him at Summer League in Las Vegas he clearly was not. He was an explosive athlete. He can and did score and there were moments you pictured a Russell Westbrook like attacker. But he also showed way more polish as a rookie than scoring guards like Westbrook and Derrick Rose showed.


Read the rest here:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... n-lillard/

But none of them bring the intangibles Lillard does to the party. His humble beginnings, on and off the court, resonate with so many people that a hot start to his season under first-year Trail Blazers coach Terry Stotts could generate the sort of buzz that pushes him to the front of the race right alongside our pick, Davis


Read the whole thing here:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/09/0 ... s-lillard/
April 4, 2014:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:I never said Dallas was good as Portland


Earlier on December 8, 2013:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:That's the Whole Point Portland is No better than Dallas
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#51 » by UGA Hayes » Sat Sep 8, 2012 1:39 pm

Just got finished watching some of his SL games that I DVRed and as a skeptic I was pretty damn impressed. HE was getting into the lane fairly easily and was finishing through some pretty hard contact and in general lookde to be the type that goes to the line a lot. He seems to be a willing passer and did a commendable though not perfect job of playing the P&R and seemed to have good chemistry with Leonard who outside of finishing oops looked a ways away. He does remind quite a bit of Rose, stylistically. I've definitely upgraded my expectations of him.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#52 » by TheGreatDame » Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:07 pm

Hey guys. I made a poll on the general board, and would encourage some of you draft experts to share your opinions over there. Thanks!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1204787
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#53 » by TheGoodDoctor » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:34 am

He's also an old rookie so his experience and development should be ahead and give him the advantage to take ROY...I doubt he'll reach Rose/Westbrook status but I could see him being a very good 2nd tier PG at the same level as the Ty Lawsons, Kyle Lowrys and Steph Currys of the league which is an excellent pick up...I'm pretty certain that he will have more impact throughout his career than anyone in the top 5 not named Davis.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#54 » by GreenRiddler » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:40 am

teamjosh04 wrote:I just want to be on record in saying that you all are overrating Lillard. Although his elevation on the jumper has nothing to do with it. He will be better than Bayless, but I dont ever see him as a top 10 point guard.

Feel stupid huh?
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#55 » by mattg » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:51 pm

How many games has it been? Also, lillard is not a top 10 PG anyway. You don't want to be like those posters who were all over Landry Fields jock after SL and a few weeks into the season.
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#56 » by GreenRiddler » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:40 am

mattg wrote:How many games has it been? Also, lillard is not a top 10 PG anyway. You don't want to be like those posters who were all over Landry Fields jock after SL and a few weeks into the season.

He said ever. The way he is playing he is about top 12-5 so a couple of years and he is top 5. He already has better Stats than Lawson Deron Williams and Curry,etc...
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Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making? 

Post#57 » by Klomp » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:14 am

GreenRiddler wrote:
mattg wrote:How many games has it been? Also, lillard is not a top 10 PG anyway. You don't want to be like those posters who were all over Landry Fields jock after SL and a few weeks into the season.

He said ever. The way he is playing he is about top 12-5 so a couple of years and he is top 5. He already has better Stats than Lawson Deron Williams and Curry,etc...

The PG position is so stacked, jumping from 12 to 5 is a pretty big jump.
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