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Damian Lillard: a star in the making?

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Post#31 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:16 pm by AnSweR07

I think your underselling bayless talent a bit. Bayless was great highly touted prospect since hs..coming into league bayless had to scramble for minutes in the rotation..while lillard is coming intovsituation where hes given the keys from day 1.
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Post#32 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:05 pm by GreenRiddler

AnSweR07 wrote:I think your underselling bayless talent a bit. Bayless was great highly touted prospect since hs..coming into league bayless had to scramble for minutes in the rotation..while lillard is coming intovsituation where hes given the keys from day 1.

Bayless was given a good opportunity in Portland late in his final year and screwed the pooch, as well as in Toronto and New Orleans, maybe he will accept he is not a pg in Memphis?
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Post#33 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:06 pm by GreenRiddler

Well Bayless couldn't shoot to save his life, Lillard is a really good shooter. Bayless couldn't dribble in anything other than a straight line, Lillard can move the ball in a variety of crossovers and change of paces very well. Bayless couldn't do anything in the PnR other than rise up or go for the charge or occasional foul/and1, Lillard is Great in the PnR. One is gonna be a PG (Lillard) the other a back-up shooting guard (Jay-Bay).

Whatever you do don't stop your comparison of the two, it will make you look that much more wrong when you see him in action when the season rolls around. :wink:
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Post#34 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:56 pm by AnSweR07

GreenRiddler wrote:Well Bayless couldn't shoot to save his life, Lillard is a really good shooter. Bayless couldn't dribble in anything other than a straight line, Lillard can move the ball in a variety of crossovers and change of paces very well. Bayless couldn't do anything in the PnR other than rise up or go for the charge or occasional foul/and1, Lillard is Great in the PnR. One is gonna be a PG (Lillard) the other a back-up shooting guard (Jay-Bay).

Whatever you do don't stop your comparison of the two, it will make you look that much more wrong when you see him in action when the season rolls around. :wink:



I never compared those two. Bayless was combo guard while lillard is more of a lead guard, scoring pg different type of players. Also bayless was really starting to come into his own last season for the raptors when he was starting..whenever he comes off the bench he plays poorly..the talent is there but he hasnt really caught a break for some reason..bad attitude?
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Post#35 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:20 pm by Tave

ssfan4life wrote:Really think this kids future is super bright. He has the tools and mental make up to become a star in the NBA. Really would like to know what other people think. I would have made a poll, but I don't know how.

Also this has got to be one of the most impressive basketball workout video I've ever seen (haven't seen many).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heP3LWn8-KQ Really nice shot!


It's probably just the fatigue but he has zero lift on his shot in that video. He's barely even getting off the ground.
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Post#36 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:51 pm by King d

Tave wrote:
ssfan4life wrote:Really think this kids future is super bright. He has the tools and mental make up to become a star in the NBA. Really would like to know what other people think. I would have made a poll, but I don't know how.

Also this has got to be one of the most impressive basketball workout video I've ever seen (haven't seen many).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heP3LWn8-KQ Really nice shot!


It's probably just the fatigue but he has zero lift on his shot in that video. He's barely even getting off the ground.


I don't see that, he gets off the ground as far I can see. But yeah, his release is a little low, but quick as hell. I don't think that should be a problem.
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Post#37 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:56 pm by Tave

King d wrote:
Tave wrote:
ssfan4life wrote:Really think this kids future is super bright. He has the tools and mental make up to become a star in the NBA. Really would like to know what other people think. I would have made a poll, but I don't know how.

Also this has got to be one of the most impressive basketball workout video I've ever seen (haven't seen many).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heP3LWn8-KQ Really nice shot!


It's probably just the fatigue but he has zero lift on his shot in that video. He's barely even getting off the ground.


I don't see that, he gets off the ground as far I can see. But yeah, his release is a little low, but quick as hell. I don't think that should be a problem.


He's getting like 6" or less off the ground on every jumper. Moreover his feet are all over the place: way too wide and offset. Combine the poor lift with the low release and you have a recipe for disaster when he has to face true NBA defense.

It's very odd because you can tell he goes all-out in the workout, even in the run-ups to his shots, but then when he takes the shot it looks like he's just farting around in an open gym.

This is the type of elevation he should be reaching:





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Post#38 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:36 pm by ManualRam

elevation on a deep range jumper isnt as important, especially if the player isnt running off of screens for his shot.
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Post#39 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:02 am by Tave

1) I disagree. More elevation will always extend your range and give you more control. Some set shooters dial in from a certain distance and don't get a ton of lift (think Bonner or Novak), but not all long-range jumpers are spot-up looks, and just because a 3-point specialist has found a way to work his spot or cash an unorthodox motion doesn't mean other people people should emulate them. You can see Allen always gets good elevation, even on set shots. That's the type of example you want to follow.

2) In that video the OP posted, Lillard has poor lift on all of his shots, including the mid-range curls simulating him running off screens and his fadeaways.

Look I'm not trying to tear the kid down. I didn't follow him in college but from the highlights I've seen he looks fantastic: very creative, great finisher, good shooter, good footwork in the post, good defender--the sky's the limit. And that workout vid is pretty cool, you can tell he's an athlete and a skilled baller. I just thought it was very odd that his footwork and elevation isn't there on his jumpshot considering how hard he was going at it. Like I said, maybe it was just fatigue. It looks like he did a lot of strength/conditioning exercises before the skills portion, and he was run ragged by the end of it.
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Post#40 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:32 am by ManualRam

how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.
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Post#41 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:50 am by Tave

ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.
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Post#42 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:38 am by ManualRam

Tave wrote:
ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.


no. none of the aforementioned guys get great elevation on their jumper, especially in comparison to the "prototype," ray allen. bibby, great elevation? no.
when a player has the quickness to get his defender on his heels AND he has a quick release, he really doesnt need great elevation on his jumper.
not every player has to shoot the ball like kobe, jordan or ray allen. rarely do you see a PG with that much elevation on their jumper. what's more important is if they have the ability to get off a clean, accurate release. lillard has that. outside of maybe russell westbrook and derrick rose, you will hardly ever see PGs elevate that high to raise up and shoot in defender's faces like that. there are other ways for PGs to get easier shots than that such as spot ups, shooting off of ball screens and stepbacks. lillard has those shots in his arsenal. i'd be more concerned with his shot release if lillard didnt' have a quick shot release and didn't have the quickness to get all the way to the cup.
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Post#43 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:37 am by Tave

I have never heard that PGs and SGs should cultivate different shooting forms.

And yes, prime Bibby had good elevation, especially on the move.





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Post#44 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:54 am by ManualRam

thanks for providing visual evidence that prime bibby didnt get great elevation on his jumper. bibby and elevation shouldnt even be used in the same sentence in a positive manner. i mean he was a guy who even shot on the way up before he reached his peak on a lot of his shots. more elevation is needed on jumpers on the move because it's more difficult to square up while on the move. the elevation on his jumpers on the move look kinda like some of these on-the-move shots. notice the different elevations b/t on-the-move shots and spots ups or pull ups off of ball screens.



it might sound counter-intuitive, but the more a player plays in space, the less elevation and high release is needed. if you think of bigs who are always playing in traffic and are closely guarded, they need that high release to get their shots over shot contests. you think about guards and swingmen like kobe, jordan, prime t-mac where they have that ability to pull up and shoot over even larger defenders (without having to step back), turn over their shoulder on the block to make tough shots over defenders, mid-post extended pull ups off of isos or tight curls, etc. they NEED that extra elevation and high release. smaller guards (not named rose or westbrook) dont have that luxury of elevating over larger defenders, which is why you hardly ever see PGs facing up mid-post extended, running flex cuts for elbow jumpers or in the post taking those kind of shots.
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Post#45 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:38 pm by DeBlazerRiddem

Lillard is going to have to adjust to NBA type defenders. He will get a very fair share of his shots blocked or altered by length/athleticism that is he not used to. How he adjusts will determine how good he becomes.
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Post#46 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:21 pm by teamjosh04

I just want to be on record in saying that you all are overrating Lillard. Although his elevation on the jumper has nothing to do with it. He will be better than Bayless, but I dont ever see him as a top 10 point guard.
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Post#47 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Sat Sep 1, 2012 5:38 pm by lilojmayo

Tave wrote:
ManualRam wrote:how many PGs get great elevation on their deep jumpers? nash, cp3, kyrie irving, billups in his prime, chalmers, steph curry, holiday, conley, bibby in his prime? none of them. look at a guy like jason kidd. he pretty much shoots a standstill shot but over the course of his career he was one of the most prolific 3 pt shooters of all-time.

spring is important, elevation is not. they are 2 different things. i was always taught that for a shot with more distance and therefore less margin for error, a more controlled, compact stroke is better.
players who dont work off screens dont need great elevation on their jumpers. players as quick as lillard arent gonna receive tight defense 3 pt line extended, so they don't have to worry as much about getting shots OVER tight defense. where the low release comes more into play is the pull up game 3 pt line and down, especially if a bigger player switches out on him. luckily for lillard he has the quickness to get all the way to the cup, a quick release and a step back game where he creates a lot of distance with footwork.


1) Once again, it's not just his deep jumpers. He has poor elevation on all his shots, from the 3 pt line down.

2) A lot of those guys do/did get good elevation. Bibby had great elevation on his 3-point shots. Curry does too, at least when he's moving. Paul's midrange lift is decent and used to be better, although like Nash he does a lot of his work on the floor creating space and shoots a high arc. Nash simply doesn't have any lift. Holiday and Conley get lift on their midrange shots. Chalmers can be kind of lazy, not sure he's a great example to follow.

3) Some of those guys are good shooters, two are great shooters, but if you're looking for the prototype, look at Allen. He ALWAYS gets lift, anywhere on the court.

4) No young shooter should model their shot after Jason Kidd. Ever.

5) Originally I wasn't even talking about 3 pointers. I just grabbed those videos because they were good examples of perfect lift. There's not many youtube videos of run-of-the-mill midrange jumpers.


I don't know why basketball fans in general overrate "elevation on jumpers". I sware its like Micheal Jordan spoiled everyone beccause he had insane elevation on his , same with Ray Allen. Chris Paul one of the PG and shooters in the NBA barely even gets off the ground even, on pullups being 6ft flat. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irivng, Bibby etc etc.

Does the ball go in or not that's all that matters. Damian is a lights out scorer. 47% FG 41 %3pt 89% FT in college. You can't fake those numbers.
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Post#48 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Sep 3, 2012 10:22 pm by GreenRiddler

teamjosh04 wrote:I just want to be on record in saying that you all are overrating Lillard. Although his elevation on the jumper has nothing to do with it. He will be better than Bayless, but I dont ever see him as a top 10 point guard.

Come back in March bra bra. I need a new sig.. 8-)
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Post#49 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Sep 3, 2012 10:24 pm by GreenRiddler

And for the stuff about elevation and low release..did you not watch SL and I know it is just SL but still...also look at guys like K-Mart and Eric Gordon.
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Post#50 Re: Damian Lillard: a star in the making?
Mon Sep 3, 2012 11:15 pm by Shem

More Lillard "Rookie of the Year" hype:

Predicting who is going to win Rookie of the Year is a lot like trying to predict this winter’s snowfall totals in the first week of September — we have some broad trends to go on but the specifics are ahead of us still. It’s a guess.

My guess: Damian Lillard of the Portland Trail Blazers.

There are a few reasons for this. One is that he is better than people realized coming in the draft — he went all the way up to No. 6 but came from off the radar. One of the key reasons he wasn’t higher was he played at Weber State in Utah, a school people end up at as a safety school and one without great competition in basketball. Team GMs had to sell owners and fans Lillard was not a long shot pick.

When I saw him at Summer League in Las Vegas he clearly was not. He was an explosive athlete. He can and did score and there were moments you pictured a Russell Westbrook like attacker. But he also showed way more polish as a rookie than scoring guards like Westbrook and Derrick Rose showed.


Read the rest here:
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... n-lillard/

But none of them bring the intangibles Lillard does to the party. His humble beginnings, on and off the court, resonate with so many people that a hot start to his season under first-year Trail Blazers coach Terry Stotts could generate the sort of buzz that pushes him to the front of the race right alongside our pick, Davis


Read the whole thing here:
http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/09/0 ... s-lillard/
April 4, 2014:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:I never said Dallas was good as Portland


Earlier on December 8, 2013:
HotrodBeaubois wrote:That's the Whole Point Portland is No better than Dallas
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