Selby, Beal or Waiters

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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#31 » by SmooveCam » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:54 am

Charsace have you been paying attention? Selbys jumper is on another level. I would even say that his jumper is closer to being elite than his athletic ability.

Not to mention he and Eric Gordon are the same height.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#32 » by RebelWithACause » Sat Oct 6, 2012 9:48 pm

1. Selby
2. Beal
3. Waiters
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#33 » by Ruzious » Mon Oct 8, 2012 4:56 pm

Keshavarzi wrote:Selby? Really?? If were going off SL and charity games sure, I see where you're coming from. But he has done NOTHING significant in games that actually matter. Did nothing in College and has yet to do anything in the NBA. I just don't think he deserves to be mentioned with Beal or even Waiters at this point.

Yup, there are always going to be people who will never get that SL games mean virtually nothing.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#34 » by RebelWithACause » Mon Oct 8, 2012 8:55 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Keshavarzi wrote:Selby? Really?? If were going off SL and charity games sure, I see where you're coming from. But he has done NOTHING significant in games that actually matter. Did nothing in College and has yet to do anything in the NBA. I just don't think he deserves to be mentioned with Beal or even Waiters at this point.

Yup, there are always going to be people who will never get that SL games mean virtually nothing.


Then College disqualifies as well!
Why? Because its just as different from a Nba game as a SL game ...
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#35 » by Choker » Mon Oct 8, 2012 9:21 pm

ElMaestro90 wrote:Then College disqualifies as well!
Why? Because its just as different from a Nba game as a SL game ...


Not exactly. College ball is a lot more organized where the team has a unified goal to win whereas SL is a place where scrubs are out to accomplish their own agendas.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#36 » by RebelWithACause » Tue Oct 9, 2012 8:31 am

Choker wrote:
ElMaestro90 wrote:Then College disqualifies as well!
Why? Because its just as different from a Nba game as a SL game ...


Not exactly. College ball is a lot more organized where the team has a unified goal to win whereas SL is a place where scrubs are out to accomplish their own agendas.


Yes of course you are right on that, but now i could argue that at least the talent level is superior which would even out the non organization of the game. Besides if a lot of guys battle for spots, they also have to show out on defense!

Besides Selby wasnt pushing anything on offense, he spot up a lot for open threes which translates to a real game!
Here he showed a very improved and a very good jumper, so that means something.
Also Selby did have good games in college prior to his injury.

Beal and Waiters didnt prove anything to this point as well. Their stats are weak when you look where they got drafted. They didnt win anything and their elite8 appearances on stacked teams is something that doesnt impress me that much!

Look out, Selby will be the best of the 3! He needs to get out of Memphis tho
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#37 » by Choker » Tue Oct 9, 2012 9:26 am

ElMaestro90 wrote:Yes of course you are right on that, but now i could argue that at least the talent level is superior which would even out the non organization of the game. Besides if a lot of guys battle for spots, they also have to show out on defense!


I don't agree with that. Talent level, yeah you could make that argument. Not all college players are good enough to even compete in the summer league while all summer league players have played college (okay not all but it's usually the case more often than not). However like I've said before summer league is just for players to get their own and everyone down to the players themselves know this. You'll never see friendships form beyond the handful of games teammates have played whereas there are always cases of college teammates keeping in touch 10 years later. No chemistry is formed between summer league players, coaches aren't obligated to build camaraderie between them, it's by all means just games to measure the capabilities of rookies and sophomore players individual talent.

Not that I'm using this argument against Selby, in fact I think Cleveland blew their pick hard by drafting Waiters and I don't see what's so special about Beal and I think Selby could break out eventually (probably not in Memphis, but his talent is amazing that if given the chance he could be a darn good player). Just saying though I'd give way more stock into college performances over summer league.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#38 » by RebelWithACause » Tue Oct 9, 2012 9:59 am

Choker wrote:
ElMaestro90 wrote:Yes of course you are right on that, but now i could argue that at least the talent level is superior which would even out the non organization of the game. Besides if a lot of guys battle for spots, they also have to show out on defense!


I don't agree with that. Talent level, yeah you could make that argument. Not all college players are good enough to even compete in the summer league while all summer league players have played college (okay not all but it's usually the case more often than not). However like I've said before summer league is just for players to get their own and everyone down to the players themselves know this. You'll never see friendships form beyond the handful of games teammates have played whereas there are always cases of college teammates keeping in touch 10 years later. No chemistry is formed between summer league players, coaches aren't obligated to build camaraderie between them, it's by all means just games to measure the capabilities of rookies and sophomore players individual talent.

Not that I'm using this argument against Selby, in fact I think Cleveland blew their pick hard by drafting Waiters and I don't see what's so special about Beal and I think Selby could break out eventually (probably not in Memphis, but his talent is amazing that if given the chance he could be a darn good player). Just saying though I'd give way more stock into college performances over summer league.


Yes you are right on that, usually I value college games more as well!

In this case I think its a little different tho!
You already said it, in the Summer League players showcase their individual abilities!
Consider we are talking about scoring combo guards here.
They were drafted because of their individual abilities (mostly scoring in their cases, well for Beal maybe a little more), so in that case I think Summer League is a good indication to see the players level of ability.

If their presumed strength, which is scoring, driving, dishing, shooting is not displayed at Summer League it is definitely something to worry about. (Waiters case)
If they really flurish in SL (like Selby) I think its a good indication for those scoring guards, that it could translate to the league, which is also kind of an ISO league!

Your thoughts on that?
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#39 » by GhostsOfGil » Tue Oct 9, 2012 2:13 pm

SmooveCam wrote:Charsace have you been paying attention? Selbys jumper is on another level. I would even say that his jumper is closer to being elite than his athletic ability.

Not to mention he and Eric Gordon are the same height.


According to the combine, Eric Gordon measured 6-3 in shoes, 220 lbs, with a freakish 6-9 wingspan. Selby measured 6-3 185 with a 6-5 wingspan. Same height but lacks elite size in other areas.

Not trolling but what evidence do you have the Selby is an elite shooter? Based off his rookie campaign, the advanced stats tend to suggest the exact opposite. His eFG% on jump shots was a miserable 38%. Also for someone with elite athleticism he rarely got to the line and struggled finishing inside. I don't know much about his role in Memphis but I'm having trouble understanding why some project him higher than Waiters or Beal.

Outside his SL performance (which I admit, he was absolutely scorching) I'm not seeing much.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#40 » by King d » Tue Oct 9, 2012 6:18 pm

GhostsOfGil wrote:
SmooveCam wrote:Charsace have you been paying attention? Selbys jumper is on another level. I would even say that his jumper is closer to being elite than his athletic ability.

Not to mention he and Eric Gordon are the same height.


According to the combine, Eric Gordon measured 6-3 in shoes, 220 lbs, with a freakish 6-9 wingspan. Selby measured 6-3 185 with a 6-5 wingspan. Same height but lacks elite size in other areas.

Not trolling but what evidence do you have the Selby is an elite shooter? Based off his rookie campaign, the advanced stats tend to suggest the exact opposite. His eFG% on jump shots was a miserable 38%. Also for someone with elite athleticism he rarely got to the line and struggled finishing inside. I don't know much about his role in Memphis but I'm having trouble understanding why some project him higher than Waiters or Beal.

Outside his SL performance (which I admit, he was absolutely scorching) I'm not seeing much.


+1

I think probably 99.9% of the GM's out there would take Beal over Selby with their eyes closed.

Selby is an undersized 2 guard who can't play the PG and can't guard 2's because of his lack of strength/size, but for some reasons people here seem to forget that and just talk about his quickness and summer league shooting ability. But the reality is that this issue will keep Selby away from becoming a full time starter on basically every serious playoff team. Beal on the other end is a way better overall player and a guy who fits on EVERY system both offensively and defensively

It's going to be really funny to take a look back at this thread 2 or 3 years from now.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#41 » by Super Selby » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:58 am

Beal is not a good defender, idk where that myth started
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#42 » by Choker » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:53 am

ElMaestro90 wrote:Yes you are right on that, usually I value college games more as well!

In this case I think its a little different tho!
You already said it, in the Summer League players showcase their individual abilities!
Consider we are talking about scoring combo guards here.
They were drafted because of their individual abilities (mostly scoring in their cases, well for Beal maybe a little more), so in that case I think Summer League is a good indication to see the players level of ability.

If their presumed strength, which is scoring, driving, dishing, shooting is not displayed at Summer League it is definitely something to worry about. (Waiters case)
If they really flurish in SL (like Selby) I think its a good indication for those scoring guards, that it could translate to the league, which is also kind of an ISO league!

Your thoughts on that?


I dig that argument if we're just talking about scoring guards. One reason I don't like summer league play is that it negates the value of "team play" which I value. However with guys like Selby if you want to test out their individual abilities completely knowing that he's not going to be a guy that would be easy to incorporate in the context of an offense, that would be useful.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#43 » by King d » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:39 am

Super Selby wrote:Beal is not a good defender, idk where that myth started


You should watch more ncaa, or at least read scouting reports
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#44 » by mattg » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:08 am

I think how Beal is able to defend the uber quick guards and the guards who have size on him is a pretty big question mark for him at the NBA level. He doesn't have great feet and was often cross matched defensively at Florida.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#45 » by SaiCLE » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:50 pm

As of right now Beal would be first on my list just because he had a better showing so far. While Dion second only because I have not seen what Selby can do.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#46 » by penquin11 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:36 pm

SmooveCam wrote:That's not true Ram..

The Grizzlies have referred to Selby as O.J 2.0 and they're promoting him as their sixthman. Tbh I can't find a thing Waiters or Beal does better than Selby.


Beal can pass better, rebound better, and defend better than Selby.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#47 » by three6mofia » Sun Nov 4, 2012 5:18 pm

waiters got this
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#48 » by RandyBreuer » Wed Nov 7, 2012 5:02 am

Selby
Mail it in for Mudiay
Play like clowns for Towns
Be a joke for Okafor

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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#49 » by Ziggy Stardust » Thu Nov 8, 2012 3:39 pm

Waiters, somewhat easily.
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Re: Selby, Beal or Waiters 

Post#50 » by Golabki » Fri Nov 9, 2012 4:23 pm

I'd put Beal slightly ahead of Waiters, but I do think Beal was a bit overrated going into the draft do to the lack of top tier guards. If you wanted to call this a draw I wouldn't argue much.

Selby is an interesting prospect still because of his play in the D-league last year, but he is well behind Beal/Waiters.

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