Jabari vs Wiggins

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Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#1 » by Hogified05 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:18 am

I believe these 2 guys might actually have a rivalry that is brewing. I think it's pretty obvious Wiggins will eventually reclassify to the class of 2013. So being a Magic fan I'm very intrigued. I hope we stink hard for this draft. The 2013 draft could be pretty good up top. I'd be ecstatic with either one of them.

But anyways, if you were to have the top pick in 2013 who are you taking? These two could be the NBA's new big rivalry in a few years.

**On a side note I think their is a strong possibility Wiggins is going to FSU because his parents met there. And Billy D is making some progress on Jabari, still a dark horse for Florida. But being a Gator fan be neat for their rivalry to start in the Sunshine State FSU vs UF. Maybe UF and FSU will forget about football for a year.....yea right lol
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#2 » by MountBiyombo » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:15 pm

From what I have read when ever Wiggins comes out he will be the number one pick. My estimation of the Bobcats board should Wiggins reclassify would be this.

1. Wiggins
2. Muhammed
3. Nerlens
4. Zeller
5. McAdoo
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#3 » by ManualRam » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:36 pm

:sigh:

neither of these guys can enter the 2013 draft.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#4 » by TheGoodDoctor » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:51 am

ManualRam wrote::sigh:

neither of these guys can enter the 2013 draft.


LMAO +1

They enter college in 2013...they will be eligible for the 2014 draft.

At this point I easily take Wiggins. Jabari reminds me of a Paul Pierce whereas Wiggins is hard to make a comparison but he can be maybe something like a Gay/Durant type of player but more filled out and stronger. Parker will still be a multiple all-star imo but Wiggins has the potential but to be in that truly elite class with Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Wade etc...but we'll see.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#5 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:59 am

I don't like rating high school players. But I will take Parker.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#6 » by bibby1023 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:38 pm

Wiggins has already been deemed "The next big thing". I like Parkers game more then Wiggins though.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#7 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:59 pm

Like I said I'm not an expert on Wiggins, but is he considered a special talent in areas other than athleticism/physical tools? Like is he ahead of the curve off the dribble or as a shooter/shot creator? Or is the reason he's considered a higher upside prospect the assumption that he's going to add those things to his athletic profile?

Jabari has elite size, shooting/shot creating and feel for the game for a wing it feels like. He might not have an elite 1st step but he sounds like the full package
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#8 » by Choker » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:59 pm

I'll admit that I don't watch high school games, but from the mixes I've seen Wiggins is an elite level athlete. Not just for high school either. He has hops, length, great first step, and top notch coordination and body control (although then again it seems mixes have a way of making players look like gymnasts so I don't know about that, but with the hype he's getting I have to believe it's true). From what I've seen of Parker he probably has the edge in skills and polish.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#9 » by Hogified05 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:01 pm

ManualRam wrote::sigh:

neither of these guys can enter the 2013 draft.


Dang I meant to say Draft of 2014...got to excited and tried to make them older then they are ha. I knew it was 2014 because the Magic better suck hard for 2 years. I'd prefer to have the top pick in 2014 and choose from these two.

I'd like to get Zeller this upcoming year if he comes out then one of these two. Dream scenario.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#10 » by boogie-reke » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:40 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Like I said I'm not an expert on Wiggins, but is he considered a special talent in areas other than athleticism/physical tools? Like is he ahead of the curve off the dribble or as a shooter/shot creator? Or is the reason he's considered a higher upside prospect the assumption that he's going to add those things to his athletic profile?

Jabari has elite size, shooting/shot creating and feel for the game for a wing it feels like. He might not have an elite 1st step but he sounds like the full package


Only thing I was really mind-blown by the kid when I see him is how he operates in the open court.

He is quite simply outstanding, amazing, whatever compliment you want to give him, in the open court. Lebron-esque.

He absolutely has a scorers mentality aswell with the ball which is a good thing to a degree(not like lets say Shabazz who takes it to the extreme though) - and seem to have some nice easy moves closer to the paint which I liked to see - and moves it seems like he can make on a pretty consistent basis down the line - and with his athletic ability are very hard to contest.

But i'm with you - I didn't see a proper skill in his game that he really excells in consistently, and shows some stuff in flashes - and I am not at all getting the talks about him in the Durant/Lebron level talent just yet.

Don't get me wrong with hard work he can be - his athletic ability and size are those of a superstar, but right now he has a while to go before I can fully say some of the stuff the hype-wagon fans of his say about his game.

He will need to work hard.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#11 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:00 am

Wiggins sounds like a prototype of what makes HS prospect end up overblown. He's a great athlete but we've seen a handful of other so called superstar bodies (Marvin Williams, Derozan, etc.) end up less impressive physically once they're not smashing HS kids open on fastbreaks.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#12 » by Pooh_Jeter » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:09 am

Wow, this is ridiculous.

Wiggins isn't just a great leaper, he has everything you would want physically from a wing player. Fluidity, quickness, great first step and just his physicaly profile (strength/size) is advanced for his age.

His shot release could use some refinement, but he absolutely has NBA range on his shot. His handles aren't elite, but he can get his shot basically whenever he wants and not just because of his superior athleticism. He also has all the tools and potential to be a lock down defender. He has shut down fellow top recruits on a number of occassions.

He doesn't just show off against random HS kids who can't handle his athleticism. He routinely has raised his game against other top recruits whether it be in international tourneys with Team Canada or with CIA Bounce. Hell, when he was 15 years old he was more than hanging with elite prospects who were 2 or 3 years older than him.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#13 » by EricAnderson » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:30 pm

Jabari to me is gonna have some of the same problems Harriosn Barnes did in college lcking great speed expolsivness and a first step i think hes gonna have problems crating his own shot a little like Barnes
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#14 » by ManualRam » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:13 pm

EricAnderson wrote:Jabari to me is gonna have some of the same problems Harriosn Barnes did in college lcking great speed expolsivness and a first step i think hes gonna have problems crating his own shot a little like Barnes

what barnes also lacked that jabari doesn't is the ball skills and creativity to create that space or to take advantage of smothering D.
unlike barnes, if you play jabari for the shot he can make the defense pay because of his better ball-handling and passing ability. barnes could only dribble in straight lines, with his right hand and once he put the ball on the deck the blinders went up.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#15 » by DMVleGeND » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:42 am

ManualRam wrote:
EricAnderson wrote:Jabari to me is gonna have some of the same problems Harriosn Barnes did in college lcking great speed expolsivness and a first step i think hes gonna have problems crating his own shot a little like Barnes

what barnes also lacked that jabari doesn't is the ball skills and creativity to create that space or to take advantage of smothering D.
unlike barnes, if you play jabari for the shot he can make the defense pay because of his better ball-handling and passing ability. barnes could only dribble in straight lines, with his right hand and once he put the ball on the deck the blinders went up.


I think Parker's ball skills are overrated though. His ball-handling still isn't very good for a wing (DX says the same thing). He's not good at breaking his man down off the dribble, and plus he's a below-average athlete, so he has to settle for more outside shots than you'd like.

You've watched him more than me, but every time I've seen him on the national stage, I just don't see the hype. I've also made the Harrison Barnes comparison -- not in terms of playing style, but in terms of hype and questioning how they'll be able to adjust to the college game.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#16 » by ManualRam » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:29 am

DMVleGeND wrote:
ManualRam wrote:what barnes also lacked that jabari doesn't is the ball skills and creativity to create that space or to take advantage of smothering D.
unlike barnes, if you play jabari for the shot he can make the defense pay because of his better ball-handling and passing ability. barnes could only dribble in straight lines, with his right hand and once he put the ball on the deck the blinders went up.


I think Parker's ball skills are overrated though. His ball-handling still isn't very good for a wing (DX says the same thing). He's not good at breaking his man down off the dribble, and plus he's a below-average athlete, so he has to settle for more outside shots than you'd like.

You've watched him more than me, but every time I've seen him on the national stage, I just don't see the hype. I've also made the Harrison Barnes comparison -- not in terms of playing style, but in terms of hype and questioning how they'll be able to adjust to the college game.


when a player is that big and rangy he doesnt need an amazing handle, especially if he has the jump shooting/shot-creating ability to be played honestly on the perimeter since all it takes is 1 or 2 dribbles to get into the lane if he gets his defender out of position. what is necessary though is for the player to have enough skill to counter. parker has that, barnes doesnt. although parker's handle is not amazing, i think it's better than wiggins' and MUCH better than barnes'.

barnes' lack of handle is his biggest drawback because if his defender just plays his shooting hand (he has NO weak hand), he doesnt have the necessary skill to counter that. all he could is force a contested jumpshot, try to get his defender up in the air with fakes or a 1 dribble step back. just look at the difference in fluidity b/t jabari and harrison. barnes' has that stiff upper body and he moves very mechanically. jabari is loose and fluid. he also has that hesitation in his game needed to set up his crosses, inside out dribbles, which he utilizes very well to get to spots on the floor or to set up his patented step back. just watch more of his videos and watch how he uses his hesitation and the threat of additional moves to keep his defender in his stance just enough so he can get off a clean jumper or a drive (great example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp2RTXVwYc0&t=1m24s). because of his looseness and fluidity, he can link moves together as opposed to barnes who, on the rare occasion when he changes directions, gathers just enough to allow the defender to recover.

what makes him an even more of a threat off the bounce is his passing ability. you can't just set up walls and bring the help early or just play him for the drive/shot because he's a good passer and he plays at a pace where he can read the defense while on the move. if a guy like barnes put the ball on the deck and he gets momentum toward the hoop, he is more predictable because, not only is he not fluid and shifty, but he is not a good playmaker.


here are some examples
seamless right to left cross into a left hand drive ~:27
quick left, right left cross into an elbow jumper ~:38
inside out with his off-hand for another left hand drive ~1:09
stand up right to left, hesitation cross ~1:16
stand up hesitation with the off-hand for a baseline drive ~1:24
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#17 » by LeChosen1 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:39 am

ManualRam wrote:
DMVleGeND wrote:
ManualRam wrote:what barnes also lacked that jabari doesn't is the ball skills and creativity to create that space or to take advantage of smothering D.
unlike barnes, if you play jabari for the shot he can make the defense pay because of his better ball-handling and passing ability. barnes could only dribble in straight lines, with his right hand and once he put the ball on the deck the blinders went up.


I think Parker's ball skills are overrated though. His ball-handling still isn't very good for a wing (DX says the same thing). He's not good at breaking his man down off the dribble, and plus he's a below-average athlete, so he has to settle for more outside shots than you'd like.

You've watched him more than me, but every time I've seen him on the national stage, I just don't see the hype. I've also made the Harrison Barnes comparison -- not in terms of playing style, but in terms of hype and questioning how they'll be able to adjust to the college game.


when a player is that big and rangy he doesnt need an amazing handle, especially if he has the jump shooting/shot-creating ability to be played honestly on the perimeter since all it takes is 1 or 2 dribbles to get into the lane if he gets his defender out of position. what is necessary though is for the player to have enough skill to counter. parker has that, barnes doesnt. although parker's handle is not amazing, i think it's better than wiggins' and MUCH better than barnes'.

barnes' lack of handle is his biggest drawback because if his defender just plays his shooting hand (he has NO weak hand), he doesnt have the necessary skill to counter that. all he could is force a contested jumpshot, try to get his defender up in the air with fakes or a 1 dribble step back. just look at the difference in fluidity b/t jabari and harrison. barnes' has that stiff upper body and he moves very mechanically. jabari is loose and fluid. he also has that hesitation in his game needed to set up his crosses, inside out dribbles, which he utilizes very well to get to spots on the floor or to set up his patented step back. just watch more of his videos and watch how he uses his hesitation and the threat of additional moves to keep his defender in his stance just enough so he can get off a clean jumper or a drive (great example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp2RTXVwYc0&t=1m24s). because of his looseness and fluidity, he can link moves together as opposed to barnes who, on the rare occasion when he changes directions, gathers just enough to allow the defender to recover.

what makes him an even more of a threat off the bounce is his passing ability. you can't just set up walls and bring the help early or just play him for the drive/shot because he's a good passer and he plays at a pace where he can read the defense while on the move. if a guy like barnes put the ball on the deck and he gets momentum toward the hoop, he is more predictable because, not only is he not fluid and shifty, but he is not a good playmaker.


here are some examples
seamless right to left cross into a left hand drive ~:27
quick left, right left cross into an elbow jumper ~:38
inside out with his off-hand for another left hand drive ~1:09
stand up right to left, hesitation cross ~1:16
stand up hesitation with the off-hand for a baseline drive ~1:24


Barnes looked the exact same, when he was in highschool. All we can do is wait and see what will happen when he dribbles against the best of the best.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#18 » by ManualRam » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:09 am

LeChosen1 wrote:
Barnes looked the exact same, when he was in highschool. All we can do is wait and see what will happen when he dribbles against the best of the best.

no, not really. not at all. barnes to this day has no wiggle or hesitation in his game. his game was triple threat, up fakes, reliance on body strength, straight line drives, high release and elevation to shoot in people's faces. he can't use his handle to freeze defenders like jabari.
he's not crafty or fluid like parker. you don't see barnes selling his crosses or inside outs with shoulder fakes. you dont see him turning fake crosses into pull ups because he doesnt really have a crossover to sell. you rarely even see barnes use his off-hand for anything other than to dribble in straight lines or escape dribbles for pull ups.
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#19 » by Choker » Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:45 pm

I don't see the comparison myself too with Barnes. In any of Barnes' mixtapes I've never seen anything to indicate he could be a shot creator from mid range, which was why I found the Kobe comparisons utterly ridiculous (and yes people WERE comparing him to Kobe in high school).
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Re: Jabari vs Wiggins 

Post#20 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:19 pm

Very nice Nike Hoop summit footage of Wiggins here. Absolutely love getting NBA/NCAA esque camera footage on these guys



His athleticism looks extremely overrated to me. One of those players that's a good athlete and very smooth, but not scary explosive. Shabazz seems like he's the one with the crazy first step and explosiveness

OTOH his feel for the game looks scary impressive in this video. And he looks like he has high potential skill wise, his shots are looking good. So I'd guess he has a chance to be pretty elite - great athlete, great feel for the game, high skill potential. I don't see the whole "one of the best prospects since Lebron" type of hype though
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