In Hindsight: Which pair of rookies would you take?

[Hansari]

Which two rookies would you put on your own team team if you could pick one pair?

Jonas Valanciunas + Terrence Ross

Or

Tristan Thompson + Dion Waiters?

[Dr Positivity]

Waiters/TT, I like Waiters' upside the most of the 4 (If Ross ever learned to use his athleticism to slash and attack the basket it'd be a different story, but he's been SO inept in that department that I can't bank on it). Not sold on TT or JVal being more than backup bigs on a good team, but TT has certainly proven more

[Kabookalu]

Waiters/TT, I like Waiters' upside the most of the 4 (If Ross ever learned to use his athleticism to slash and attack the basket it'd be a different story, but he's been SO inept in that department that I can't bank on it). Not sold on TT or JVal being more than backup bigs on a good team, but TT has certainly proven more

So bizarre that you like Waiters the most out of the four.

[princeofpalace]

Both pairs are mediocre, but I give the slight edge to TT/Waiters.

[SlowPaced]

Tristan Thompson + Dion Waiters. Better upside. TT isn't a rookie, by the way.

[Ruzious]

I like that Waiters is showing signs of improving his shooting, but this decision should imo come down to which of the big men you'd rather have, and I'd prefer the 20 year old 7 foot center - Jonny V. Once he learns to stay out of foul trouble, he's going to be effective.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Waiters/TT, I like Waiters' upside the most of the 4 (If Ross ever learned to use his athleticism to slash and attack the basket it'd be a different story, but he's been SO inept in that department that I can't bank on it). Not sold on TT or JVal being more than backup bigs on a good team, but TT has certainly proven more

So bizarre that you like Waiters the most out of the four.

It's not bizarre at all.

Dr. "Positivity" is notorious for standing by his outrageous opinions. He's completely lacking in personal humility. Jonas could become the greatest player of all-time by a bloody landslide (it's just an example people), and he would argue that he was a fringe all-star, who only succeeded because of fortunate circumstances or something equally ridiculous. Once he states on opinion, he will always state his opinion as fact, no matter how much proof there is to the contrary.

[Dr Positivity]

Not entirely true. I can tell you I believe my opinions on Lillard, Drummond and Barnes before their draft (lukewarm on all 3) look dead wrong and I now expect them to have blue chip careers. Going back a few years I was high on Kanter, Burks, Motiejunas, Biyombo and Reggie Jackson and am now lukewarm on them all. I actually have budged a bit on Valanciunas. I once believed the pick was going to be a Mount Bustmore Darko, Skita, Yi, etc. like disaster like Vesely has ended up being. I now see him as a league average player long term

[khaled_a_d]

Jonas Valanciunas + Terrence Ross considering they are actually pair of rookies

[BossHoggin]

Jonas Valanciunas + Terrence Ross considering they are actually pair of rookies

Irrelevant to the OPs agenda. He's just a Raptors homer trying to revive the Jonas hype train. He doesn't even know that recently Thompson has been proving why he was a good pick.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I posted this in the thread OP made on the general board asking the same question:

Tristan Thompsons stats for January

15 PTS 11 REB 2 AST 53 FG% 68 FT% 34 MPG

Now February

15 PTS 8 REB 2 AST 55 FG% 78 FT% 31 MPG

It might be unfair cause Tristan is in his second year, but these numbers are coming from a raw, defensive, second year big. I really don't know what this guys ceiling is, and honestly right now I would take him over both Jonas, and Ross. I would definitely take him over a guy like Monroe, and the only bigs from the last two drafts I'd rather have are Drummond and Davis.

Waiters has made similar progressions, and I can see how somebody can consider him to have the most potential out of the 4. It's not that I don't like Ross's game, I just don't know how or why I'd take him and his potential over a very dynamic Waiters when my team is rebuilding and looking for core players. Ross is the type of guy that if he became a star it would come out of nowhere because he just totally re-invented his game. Nothing wrong with being a great transition player, defender, and spot up shooter. I'd personally rather have what Waiters is becoming.

[princeofpalace]

^
Theres really not much of an argument to be made for Tristan Thompson over Greg Monroe. Both Monroe and THompson are 22 years old. Monroe is 3 inches taller than Tristan Thompson, and has a longer wingspan, although Greg does have less athelticism. Thompson is a better defender but Mornoe is a considerably better offensive player, in addition to being the better reboiunder.

These are Greg's stats in the same months that you noted for Tristan Thompson.

January
Greg Monroe: 17 points/10 boards/3.5 assists on 53%FG

February
Greg Monroe: 18 points/13 boards/3 assists on 53%FG

I prefer Tristan Thompson to both of the Raptors rookies but his ceiling is as a role playing bigman, not a potential all star like a guy like Greg Monroe.

[Ziggy Stardust]

^
Theres really not much of an argument to be made for Tristan Thompson over Greg Monroe. Both Monroe and THompson are 22 years old. Monroe is 3 inches taller than Tristan Thompson, and has a longer wingspan, although Greg does have less athelticism. Thompson is a better defender but Mornoe is a considerably better offensive player, in addition to being the better reboiunder.

These are Greg's stats in the same months that you noted for Tristan Thompson.

January
Greg Monroe: 17 points/10 boards/3.5 assists on 53%FG

February
Greg Monroe: 18 points/13 boards/3 assists on 53%FG

I prefer Tristan Thompson to both of the Raptors rookies but his ceiling is as a role playing bigman, not a potential all star like a guy like Greg Monroe.

Yes, he really is. Thompson is actually 21 years old, and is a much better defender. The Gap is in their D is much larger than the gap's that Tristan is quickly closing on O. This is a guy drafted for his D.

Monroe is two inches taller than Tristan, and has an inch longer wingspan, and they have equal standing reaches. Take that for what it's worth but Greg doesn't just have less athleticism, he is significantly a lesser athlete. I think their play on the court should prove it, and if it doesn't then look at their athletic testing. I'm not one to hold those events as gospel but Tristan has 35 inch vertical compared to Monroes 30, and has a lane agility of 10.92 compared to Monroe's 12.10.

Those are impressive stats, and Monroe is a great player. But if I was going to pick one for the future it'd be Thompson for his D, and much larger potential to get better.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Only a homer would take TT over Monroe. You provided Thompson's stats for the past month and a half, and automatically assumes he is going to be a better player than Monroe. That's a very assinine assumption, considering Monroe just dropped 18/16, 4 assist, and 2 blocks on the Cavs and TT had a -19 despite scoring 19 points.

[23-7]

One of those guys isn't a rookie

[Ziggy Stardust]

Only a homer would take TT over Monroe. You provided Thompson's stats for the past month and a half, and automatically assumes he is going to be a better player than Monroe. That's a very assinine assumption, considering Monroe just dropped 18/16, 4 assist, and 2 blocks on the Cavs and TT had a -19 despite scoring 19 points.

ok. Automatically? I just gave my opinion. Pretty ironic you fault me for a small sample size then use one game, and even more specifically one advanced stat to make your point. I think +- is borderline useless but if that was yours sole judge of impact then I guess Thompson is having a better year than Kyrie Irving.

You can take Monroe now and in the future, I don't see anything wrong with that. Personally, I'd take Thompson because I think he has more potential as an already very productive, athletic two way big.

Anyway that's not what this thread is about. I said it in passing, and if you really want to make a thread about it then go to player comparisons.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I wasn't using just one game as justification, but simply pointing out that your opinion of Thompson being better than Monroe is not a very accurate opinion. I didn't back my +/- argument up but it is a useful stat.

I think a lot of people will take Monroe with me because Thompson isn't a really productive, two way big yet. He's further in his offensive development than where he once was, but not that far along. IMO, he isn't all that great of a defensive big either. Certainly the potential is there though.

To give my opinion on the actual topic, I would take Ross and Val. Ross is a better shooter(mechanics and form) and defender than Waiters, while Val has just as much potential(more IMO) as TT, and plays a premium position with good size.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I wasn't using just one game as justification, but simply pointing out that your opinion of Thompson being better than Monroe is not a very accurate opinion. I didn't back my +/- argument up but it is a useful stat.

I think a lot of people will take Monroe with me because Thompson isn't a really productive, two way big yet. He's further in his offensive development than where he once was, but not that far along. IMO, he isn't all that great of a defensive big either. Certainly the potential is there though.

To give my opinion on the actual topic, I would take Ross and Val. Ross is a better shooter(mechanics and form) and defender than Waiters, while Val has just as much potential(more IMO) as TT, and plays a premium position with good size.

Disagree about him not being all that great of a defensive big. He's not a big shot blocker but he gets a lot of steals for a big, covers a whole lot of ground, and is a great mid-low post iso defender when not overwhelmed by size. His biggest strength is as a pick and roll defender. He's covered up a lot of Kyries deficiencies this year. His big problem is confusion guarding stretch bigs.

He might not be that far in his offense, but honestly part of my excitement level is that he's pretty much been good for an efficient 15-20 recently despite being pretty raw.

[DowJones]

Thompson's improvement has really impressed me. It's like the light went on when Andy went down. It isn't just his numbers, but it's the way he is getting his points. He is showing a touch around the hoop that he never showed before. He is also hitting his FT's at a much better rate. I think limiting his upside to a role player is really a slap in the face. When I think of good role players I think of guys like Udonis Haslem and Big Baby Davis. I think Thompson has already shown more than either of those 2.

Thompson's upside is interesting. I don't really know who to compare him to right now. I think Thompson is a 15-17 foot shot away from being a real All-Star in this league. He has greatly improved his FT stroke, so in a few years maybe he develops that. I think he needs to look at David Lee. Lee has really improved his outside shot and touch around the hoop.

I would take Thompson and Waiters over Ross and Val without thinking twice. Waiters has some very real upside that I don't know Ross has. Waiters can get to the hoop, he just needs to work on finishing better around the rim. He has already started doing that. He has a good stroke so I think that will work itself out.

[Ruzious]

I'm not quite as high on Thompson as others are, but I think he's solid in the Amir Johnson mold - not as a future all-star.