The New Julius Randle

[doordoor123]

This statement speaks for itself.

This guy doordoor has some of the worst takes I've ever seen in my life regarding basketball. It's quite an accomplishment, because I've seen my share.

Well, you're taking my comment out of context. And it seems you always do. So that's great. Troll on and stop bothering me.

1) Diminishing LeBron who's a 2 time NBA champion and 4x MVP is ridiculous on any level. He has strengths and weaknesses? Alright...so should I compare my basketball skills to LeBron because I'm often times the best passer at the YMCA? LOL. For real? And I'm a LeBron hater, check my post history!

2) Comparing a player to another player implies they have a minimum threshhold of synergies. That's like me comparing Embiid to Kobe because they're both above average passers. Like...what? Really? No, that's not how comparisons are.

3) Great job comparing tall white guys to each other with Dirk.

I'm completely wasting my time responding to this, but it's so absurd/hilarious that I had to. So congrats for your trolling. +1

Another person that either isn't understanding what I'm saying or is taking what I'm saying out of context. OKAY.

There is a certain way the LeBron plays. He has skills and a way of playing that is different than other players. #1. He has elite floor awareness for a forward (not a skill many have) #2. He can pretty much get to the basket without anyone stopping him because of his elite athleticism and strength.

When I compare Randle to Bron, I'm saying Randle looks like he knows how to use his athleticism and strength in the same way.

And MY FRIEND made the comparison between Kaminsky and Dirk Nowitzki. I COULD see the comparisons though. Both are 7'0 white guys, yes, but both shoot threes, both have a post game, both are similarly athletic and both aren't the most skilled rebounders. You can't say that about many other players at that position.

Beside that, I'm not making comparisons. I see skills that NBA players use and I'm associating that with the prospect's skills. I don't know how to explain more without either you or EvanZ making a ridiculous rebuttal. Either you aren't listening or you're putting new words in your head.

[Antrim]

immensely better footwork? randle has like one move with the ball and shuffles his feet a lot to power up. both are/were bully, face up PFs with 1 counter spin to get to their strong hand.
better motor? i'll disagree with that.
randle does shoot 1 FTA more than robinson did per 36. so i'll give him the slight edge there.

Randle occupies a whole lot more space than Robinson ever did. He's in a different level as a bully. He's also doing these things while being two years younger than Robinson was when he left college.

I got another question for you in the same mold. Physically and skill-wise, what did Griffin have over Randle after their freshman year?

if randle occupies so much more space then why does he get pushed off the block? if he was such a inside physical presence who took up space then why did cal move him off the block?

footwork, better understanding of positioning, better overall fundamentals (blockouts, seals and screen setting), shot selection, passing. blake was also the better athlete with more lift.

Cal took him out of there because after his initial domination teams started collapsing the block to avoid it. At this point neither his skill level (as you said, he's got no right hand) or decision level (which has gotten much better during the year, in my opinion) is quite up there, so it was better to open things up for him. That said, he's still a freshman and by far the player that garners more attention by the defenders of the team that's about to win the NCAA. I think you're underrating his impact.

I'm a huge Griffin fan. I think he's a top 3-5 player in the league and I don't expect Randle to reach his level. I still don't think Griffin was as polished as a freshman as you're making him to be, and I think Randle can improve in many aspects of his game just like Blake did.

You say his physique is not all that much, and at the same time that he doesn't have a great motor. Still, the guy is grabbing 10+ RPG as a freshman. How does that happen?

How many players are there in the NBA with Randle's size and mobility? I can think of two.

[Novocaine]

His ceiling seems higher than it was. Sometimes, in that last game, he seems unstoppable. He could end up being a LeBron James-type.

In that last game he was being guarded by the 6'6" and 210lbs Glen Robinson, who he had 3 inches and 40lbs on, and even saw Zach Irvin guarding him once or twice, who is also 6'6" 185lbs. I wouldn't put too much stock into this particular game.


His reach hasn't improved. His steals+block numbers are still poor, as are his assist numbers. Nor is he an impressive leaper (high standard here for me). So all of those are not good indicators. Steals/blocks and vert all are predictive of PF defense in the NBA, so Randle does not project to be a great defender. He can excel as a post defender due to his strength, but that's about it.

On the other hand, he is one of the best rebounders in this draft class, and good college rebounders are good NBA rebounders, so he has an elite skill to sell a team on and carve out a roll for himself. His face up game is pretty nice. He draws a TON of fouls, which is very valuable, especially since is FG% isn't standing out. If his jumpshooting becomes at least respectable, he should be a very useful offensive player. His FT% is not abysmal like Aaron Gordon's is, so there is hope for him to improve there.

He is a bit TO prone, and needs to try and improve his passing, but that's the sort of thing that generally doesn't change. He does pass out of double teams, which is good, but his play-making in general is not that great. He has a terrible A/TO ratio.

He's a lottery pick for sure I think, but how high he goes depends on a lot of things. I can't judge him against international prospects, because I simply don't know enough about them. Plus, team needs come into the equation. But uh, say 5th overall? If Exum doesn't impress in the workouts, I could easily see the Lakers drafting him. Not the Celtics or Bucks (if they get passed in the lottery); maybe the 76ers if they're 3rd. I'm not a huge fan, but I think this draft is pretty overrated in general, so I still would place him fairly high on a big-board. I like Vonleh more than him, and I feel like Stokes is close to him as well, but whatever.

I expect that he should pan out into a solid player, but I don't know if he'll be a real star. Good rebounding+scoring is a nice combination that will earn him a starting job, but his playmaking and defense will hold him back. I don't know if he's a good enough scorer to earn an all-star appearance, especially if he doesn't develop a decent jumper.

Relevant articles, credit to CBB_fan:
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/archive/201 ... d-defense/
http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/2/26/54 ... -prospects

In his junior season, David West had an A:TO rate of 1:2, even worse than Randle's current one. Today he's one of the best passing big men in the NBA (granted that after 5 seasons in the league he still had roughly the same number of assists and turnovers). He's also a pretty good defender.

On average, the better players in college will be the better NBA players. But the draft is about finding outliers. I don't think a players A:TO ratio tells us anything about his future de per se. It's an interesting metric only for aggregates; just like macroeconomics can't help with microeconomic problems and vice-versa. The only thing that matters is the singular context: how the player gets to that A:TO ratio and how is that susceptible of changing in the future (or not). It's not about "of course, you have to consider context"; rather that context is everything so the rest is merely noise and worth nothing. I like Randle passing. I've always been impressed by how exact it is, how often he hits the numbers, even at difficult angles. In my experience, this is a way better indicator of a player's potential to be good passer than an assist statistic and it's not even close. I also think his turnover rate declined drastically as he got more comfortable handling double and triple teams and that it will fall further as learns when and how he can attack off the dribble. Isn't the idea that Randle is a high-turnover player a bit outdated? What's the point of using a player's season A:TO ration when that can't accurately describe who the player is now? I think Randle can eventually become a very good passer - it'll take him a few years but he has the makings of it.

My biggest problem with Randle is his defense, due to his length. Well, lack of length in general. Otherwise he'd be a terrific prospect.

[ManualRam]

Randle occupies a whole lot more space than Robinson ever did. He's in a different level as a bully. He's also doing these things while being two years younger than Robinson was when he left college.

I got another question for you in the same mold. Physically and skill-wise, what did Griffin have over Randle after their freshman year?

if randle occupies so much more space then why does he get pushed off the block? if he was such a inside physical presence who took up space then why did cal move him off the block?

footwork, better understanding of positioning, better overall fundamentals (blockouts, seals and screen setting), shot selection, passing. blake was also the better athlete with more lift.

Cal took him out of there because after his initial domination teams started collapsing the block to avoid it. At this point neither his skill level (as you said, he's got no right hand) or decision level (which has gotten much better during the year, in my opinion) is quite up there, so it was better to open things up for him. That said, he's still a freshman and by far the player that garners more attention by the defenders of the team that's about to win the NCAA. I think you're underrating his impact.

I'm a huge Griffin fan. I think he's a top 3-5 player in the league and I don't expect Randle to reach his level. I still don't think Griffin was as polished as a freshman as you're making him to be, and I think Randle can improve in many aspects of his game just like Blake did.

You say his physique is not all that much, and at the same time that he doesn't have a great motor. Still, the guy is grabbing 10+ RPG as a freshman. How does that happen?

How many players are there in the NBA with Randle's size and mobility? I can think of two.

i never said anything about his physique. he's obviously strong, well built and he pursues the ball well, which is why he's a good rebounder, but he did get pushed off the block in post up situations. i think that had more do with his comfort level on the block (he was not a back to the basket scorer in HS despite an even greater size advantage) and the fact that he did not always post hard. on the catch he can turn it on, but his work before the catch leaves some to be desired. that to me is one of the main differences b/t college webber and college randle. webber often buried his man under the hoop, which resulted in closer, easier shots. great big men do their work early to get easier shots as opposed to not doing as much work early, resulting in more difficult shots.

i would not call blake polished at the same stage, but growing up as a coach's son he was well-schooled in a lot of the areas he's known for today. he had a very solid fundamental base, more so than randle imo.

[Mr Sixer]

I see a quality that I see in other players and compare that quality. I'm not saying Julius Randle is going to be LeBron, but LeBron is a player with normal skills and normal flaws. You speak as if he's an untouchable god. NEWSFLASH: He's a basketball player that probably won't even win MVP this year.

This statement speaks for itself.

This guy doordoor has some of the worst takes I've ever seen in my life regarding basketball. It's quite an accomplishment, because I've seen my share.

Well, you're taking my comment out of context. And it seems you always do. So that's great. Troll on and stop bothering me.

How is quoting your entire post and then bolding the part he wants to reply to taking your comment out of context. Seems like the opposite of taking it out of context to me.

[EricAnderson]

Its come to the point with fans/media where people are so obsessed with being right about a player that they cant admit a player is improving like Randle is over the past few games..

People talk in such absolutes about these kids like theryes no way they can improve and that there games peaks at 18 or 19 its insanity..

Then you have the crowd that overanalyzes college stats and would take Jordan Adams first in the draft becasue of these new age stats that are obsessed with steals lol

Does Randle have some flaws? yes do i think hes gonna be the #1 guy on a title team? probably not but i dont think anyone from this draft will i think were looking at 4 or 5 great sidekick #2 players on a contending team'..

Also people saying hes bullying smaller players and wont be able to in the nba hes 6'9 250 of pure muscle built like a brick **** at 18 can you imagine how strong hell be in a few years? do you really think hes not gonna be able to evnetually outmuscle people in the nba when hes at his peak physically?

[165bows]

To me, he's got a good combo of strength, quickness and touch finishing inside ten feet.

I don't see him bullying guys in the pros, or maybe the bottom half of fours league wide, or just stretch fours in general.

I mean, he is going to bully David West, Josh Smith or Paul Millsap, guys who are similar in size? I thought Randle looked smaller and less physically powerful than Harrell, actually. Harrell just has no ball skills whatsoever. Randle's quickness and touch seem like his best aspects, IMO.

[Antrim]

Randle is going to bully pretty much everyone he plays against. He's a freshman, for God's sake.

[Mik317]

There aren;t really that many tough 4s left. Sure there are a few but....can West keep up with Randle's speed advantage? Milsap is probably just as big as Randle. And Smith would be too busy jacking 3s to care lol. Everyone has bad matchups, it happens but I think people act like the league is full of Prime KG types. Randle is going to have to add to his game for sure but he would have to do that even if he was able to bully everyone still.

I'm not saying he will be LeBron (holy ****) but I do think many are writing him off too soon...

hell I think that for a lot of the guys in this draft...most of these guys aren't even close to finished projects yet here many are acting like who they are on draft day will be who they are a year from now and forever.

[jmnvcavs]

This kid seems pretty safe. He isn't going to be a superstar, but he will be damn solid in the NBA.

[Golabki]

There aren;t really that many tough 4s left. Sure there are a few but....can West keep up with Randle's speed advantage? Milsap is probably just as big as Randle. And Smith would be too busy jacking 3s to care lol. Everyone has bad matchups, it happens but I think people act like the league is full of Prime KG types. Randle is going to have to add to his game for sure but he would have to do that even if he was able to bully everyone still.

I'm not saying he will be LeBron (holy ****) but I do think many are writing him off too soon...

hell I think that for a lot of the guys in this draft...most of these guys aren't even close to finished projects yet here many are acting like who they are on draft day will be who they are a year from now and forever.

He was held in check by a combo forward who might be a 2nd round pick next year and an undersized 3 pt specialist wing.

He'll probably do alright against the Omar Casspi's of the world... but even then I'm not sure you'd really want to be running offense through him.

[MellowRose]

There aren;t really that many tough 4s left. Sure there are a few but....can West keep up with Randle's speed advantage? Milsap is probably just as big as Randle. And Smith would be too busy jacking 3s to care lol. Everyone has bad matchups, it happens but I think people act like the league is full of Prime KG types. Randle is going to have to add to his game for sure but he would have to do that even if he was able to bully everyone still.

I'm not saying he will be LeBron (holy ****) but I do think many are writing him off too soon...

hell I think that for a lot of the guys in this draft...most of these guys aren't even close to finished projects yet here many are acting like who they are on draft day will be who they are a year from now and forever.

He was held in check by a combo forward who might be a 2nd round pick next year and an undersized 3 pt specialist wing.

He'll probably do alright against the Omar Casspi's of the world... but even then I'm not sure you'd really want to be running offense through him.

Drinking too much of that damn Haterade. If you all haven't caught up to the fact that Randle is NEVER guarded by one person when he's attempting any shot beside a jump shot, then IDK what to tell you. Dude is constantly getting doubled and perimeter players are always collapsing in. ALWAYS.

He's gonna make all you critics eat his **** in the NBA. Book it.

[Golabki]

There aren;t really that many tough 4s left. Sure there are a few but....can West keep up with Randle's speed advantage? Milsap is probably just as big as Randle. And Smith would be too busy jacking 3s to care lol. Everyone has bad matchups, it happens but I think people act like the league is full of Prime KG types. Randle is going to have to add to his game for sure but he would have to do that even if he was able to bully everyone still.

I'm not saying he will be LeBron (holy ****) but I do think many are writing him off too soon...

hell I think that for a lot of the guys in this draft...most of these guys aren't even close to finished projects yet here many are acting like who they are on draft day will be who they are a year from now and forever.

He was held in check by a combo forward who might be a 2nd round pick next year and an undersized 3 pt specialist wing.

He'll probably do alright against the Omar Casspi's of the world... but even then I'm not sure you'd really want to be running offense through him.

Drinking too much of that damn Haterade. If you all haven't caught up to the fact that Randle is NEVER guarded by one person when he's attempting any shot beside a jump shot, then IDK what to tell you. Dude is constantly getting doubled and perimeter players are always collapsing in. ALWAYS.

He's gonna make all you critics eat his **** in the NBA. Book it.

why is he going to be better than Derrick Williams or Mike Bennett ?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[MellowRose]

He was held in check by a combo forward who might be a 2nd round pick next year and an undersized 3 pt specialist wing.

He'll probably do alright against the Omar Casspi's of the world... but even then I'm not sure you'd really want to be running offense through him.

Drinking too much of that damn Haterade. If you all haven't caught up to the fact that Randle is NEVER guarded by one person when he's attempting any shot beside a jump shot, then IDK what to tell you. Dude is constantly getting doubled and perimeter players are always collapsing in. ALWAYS.

He's gonna make all you critics eat his **** in the NBA. Book it.

why is he going to be better than Derrick Williams or Mike Bennett ?


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Without even delving into his actual play, I'll explain why he's gonna be different than those guys with one word - HEART.

Randle and Smart are two of the high motor, high emotions guys you'll see in basketball. This trait alone will allow them to become some of the best ball players in the NBA.

Oladipo, a high motor guy, is a prime example. Going from SG to PG on the fly isn't an easy thing to do, but he's getting better every day.

Just can't teach motor or emotions.

[ManualRam]

funny you mention high motor after he looked stuck in neutral during the championship game.

high motor players don't play in spurts. randle plays in spurts.

[MellowRose]

funny you mention high motor after he looked stuck in neutral during the championship game.

high motor players don't play in spurts. randle plays in spurts.

Players who play in spurts don't lead the nation in double-doubles.

[ManualRam]

funny you mention high motor after he looked stuck in neutral during the championship game.

high motor players don't play in spurts. randle plays in spurts.

Players who play in spurts don't lead the nation in double-doubles.

didn't beasley do exactly that or come close to it? beasley was never mistaken for a high motor player.
players who have high motors don't get pushed off the spot by much smaller players and disappear offensively for long stretches.

player tendencies like having a high motor are developed early. do yourself a favor and watch one of randle's full games in HS (youtube search: prestonwood basketball randle). watch one of those games fixated on randle and you tell me if you still think he's a naturally high motor player.

[MellowRose]

funny you mention high motor after he looked stuck in neutral during the championship game.

high motor players don't play in spurts. randle plays in spurts.

Players who play in spurts don't lead the nation in double-doubles.

didn't beasley do exactly that or come close to it? beasley was never mistaken for a high motor player.
players who have high motors don't get pushed off the spot by much smaller players and disappear offensively for long stretches.

player tendencies like having a high motor are developed early. do yourself a favor and watch one of randle's full games in HS (youtube search: prestonwood basketball randle). watch one of those games fixated on randle and you tell me if you still think he's a naturally high motor player.

Beasley was definitely a high energy guy though. High energy does lead to a high motor at times. Beasy is also just a damn crackhead. No motivation at all.

IDK if I'm willing to label someone's motor in HS. Most players don't really play 100% every play at that level anyways.

Also, I see Randle getting pushed out when the play calls for Randle to get out of the pint area anyways. Not saying he's never been pushed out, but I don't recall him consistently being pushed out when he was supposed to stay according to the play.

When you're playing with "PG's" like the Harrisons, I don't blame anyone for disappearing offensively for long stretches. I'll give him a pass on that.

[ManualRam]

Players who play in spurts don't lead the nation in double-doubles.

didn't beasley do exactly that or come close to it? beasley was never mistaken for a high motor player.
players who have high motors don't get pushed off the spot by much smaller players and disappear offensively for long stretches.

player tendencies like having a high motor are developed early. do yourself a favor and watch one of randle's full games in HS (youtube search: prestonwood basketball randle). watch one of those games fixated on randle and you tell me if you still think he's a naturally high motor player.

Beasley was definitely a high energy guy though. High energy does lead to a high motor at times. Beasy is also just a damn crackhead. No motivation at all.

IDK if I'm willing to label someone's motor in HS. Most players don't really play 100% every play at that level anyways.

Also, I see Randle getting pushed out when the play calls for Randle to get out of the pint area anyways. Not saying he's never been pushed out, but I don't recall him consistently being pushed out when he was supposed to stay according to the play.

When you're playing with "PG's" like the Harrisons, I don't blame anyone for disappearing offensively for long stretches. I'll give him a pass on that.

no he wasn't. beas was ultra talented but lazy on the court. he could grab boards off of sheer talent. same story for a guy like derrick coleman too. neither had to give it their all, yet still be ultra productive at the college level because of their talent.

and why not? player tendencies/intangibles are developed early. i have never seen a player dog it in HS, playing in spurts eventually be labeled a high motor player, just like i've never seen a player who played with a very low iq in HS eventually be considered a smart player.

no, he doesn't always get pushed off the block but enough to draw attention to randle not taking advantage of his matchup and physical superiority.

if the harrisons were the reason why randle disappeared for long stretches, then you have to question who the alpha dog of that team really was.

[AgentZer0]

Randle will be able to contribute from Day 1. He's a ferocious rebounder that should contend for Rookie of the Year if he lands in a place where he starts right away and could be an All-Star eventually. He's athletic for his size and solid both offensively and defensively. The only things that concern me about his game is that in HS and college, he was a man against boys and was able to overpower opponents easily. He'll still overpower many NBA players, but the quality of competition will make it a lot harder for him. Facing Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love, Tim Duncan, etc on most nights is night and day compared to the SEC.

Check out this site for a scouting report on Julius Randle, complete with stats, strengths and weaknesses, and player comparisons here: http://freeagentzero.com/2014/06/23/nba ... us-randle/