Frank Kaminsky

reignfire · Post #301 » by **reignfire** » Wed May 13, 2015 11:23 pm

I think he'll be good despite his measurables.

He has two good things going for him: skills and heart. You can't count those things out. I think he'll have a way better career than someone like WCS who has the heart of a sheep.

tmorgan · Post #302 » by **tmorgan** » Wed May 13, 2015 11:42 pm

babyjax13 wrote:I think a more obvious comp would be Memo. Decent, but not great rebounder. Not overly athletic, not a stiff, center size, great shooter, not a good help defender, OK sticking to his man, can put the ball on the floor, good passer for the center position.

In some ways, I guess. 7 footers with range and coordination despite a shortage of athleticism.

What makes Kaminsky so interesting is that there hasn't been anyone quite like him, at least lately. Okur was a much thicker, stronger guy -- he could beat you up down low and carried much more weight. Kaminsky's clearly quicker and faster than Memo, which bodes well in some ways and not so well in others.

thamadkant · Post #303 » by **thamadkant** » Thu May 14, 2015 5:39 am

If he slips, I can see Spurs making a pick for him. They can always use a player like him in their system... and in 3-4 years time there's a chance some will say "Spurs has done it again".

machu46 · Post #304 » by **machu46** » Thu May 14, 2015 12:47 pm

1UPZ wrote:If he slips, I can see Spurs making a pick for him. They can always use a player like him in their system... and in 3-4 years time there's a chance some will say "Spurs has done it again".

I can't imagine any way he gets past 17.

Gordon · Post #305 » by **Gordon** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:48 pm

What if Kaminsky struggles adjusting to the NBA 3-point line? I doubt he will be 40% 3-point shooter in the NBA like he was ona limited number of attempts in college. What he brings to the table offensively to offset the fact that he is neither terrific pick and roll defender or rim protector?

King Ken · Post #306 » by **King Ken** » Thu May 14, 2015 1:53 pm

1UPZ wrote:If he slips, I can see Spurs making a pick for him. They can always use a player like him in their system... and in 3-4 years time there's a chance some will say "Spurs has done it again".

I don't see him slipping pass Phx.

No-Man · Post #307 » by **No-Man** » Thu May 14, 2015 2:02 pm

Kaminsky is not falling out of the lotto.

Johnlac1 · Post #308 » by **Johnlac1** » Thu May 14, 2015 3:50 pm

Gordon wrote:What if Kaminsky struggles adjusting to the NBA 3-point line? I doubt he will be 40% 3-point shooter in the NBA like he was ona limited number of attempts in college. What he brings to the table offensively to offset the fact that he is neither terrific pick and roll defender or rim protector?

Nobody is saying he'll be a great defender. He'll be an adequate rebounder, and he'll have to work hard on onball defense.
But it's Kaminksky's off. potential that has pro scouts intrigued.
Simply put, he has an all-around off. game that few centers in the league have. I hate having to bring up Zaza Pachulia again, but Kaminsky has it all over Zaza. And Zaza is not actually bad on off...he's a good passer, sets strong picks, and can hit an open 15 ft shot. But basically you won't get much off. out of Zaza.
And he's just adequate defensively. His one advantage over Kaminsky, at this point (other than experience), is that he's stronger.
But if Kaminsky can keep from being overwhelmed, the off. potential he has trumps his possible def. weaknesses. He'll probably even be a better shot-blocker than Pachulia....which isn't saying a heck of a lot since Zaza can barely get off the ground.

BoutPractice · Post #309 » by **BoutPractice** » Sat May 16, 2015 11:24 am

One thing to keep in mind when it comes to seniors is, did they improve "automatically" due to age vs competition / playing time opportunities? Or did they improve because they significantly raised their game (ie they're late bloomers)?

To me it seems Kaminsky belongs in that latter category. He also strikes me as someone who desperately wants to prove the doubters wrong.

So while I'm still reasonably skeptical I don't think his profile puts an arbitrary ceiling on his next level potential.

Johnlac1 · Post #310 » by **Johnlac1** » Sat May 16, 2015 1:37 pm

BoutPractice wrote:One thing to keep in mind when it comes to seniors is, did they improve "automatically" due to age vs competition / playing time opportunities? Or did they improve because they significantly raised their game (ie they're late bloomers)?

To me it seems Kaminsky belongs in that latter category. He also strikes me as someone who desperately wants to prove the doubters wrong.

So while I'm still reasonably skeptical I don't think his profile puts an arbitrary ceiling on his next level potential.

I watched Kaminsky his soph year. If anybody says they saw a future college POY or pro lottery pick, they're probably lying. He had a few good games his soph year, but mostly he was a stopgap for starting center Jared Berggren.
Most Badger fans thought Berggren had a much better pro chance than Frank. Where is Berggren now? Berggren was stronger and a better leaper than Kaminsky. Plus, he was a good three point shooter and was a better onball defender.
So according the "experts" who place great value on physical attributes over everything else, Berggren should have been a better pro prospect over Kaminsky.
If it's one thing I noticed, is that skilled big men are very valuable. There's a number of them playing (well) in the pros. They are strong, but a lot of them don't jump too high or run too fast.
Kaminsky is one of those late bloomers. He's a better athlete than he's given credit for, and he''s one of the most skilled big men to enter the league in many years. And nobody will outwork Frank in the quest to make himself better.

JMac1 · Post #311 » by **JMac1** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:08 am

King Ken wrote:
1UPZ wrote:If he slips, I can see Spurs making a pick for him. They can always use a player like him in their system... and in 3-4 years time there's a chance some will say "Spurs has done it again".

I don't see him slipping pass Phx.

JMac1 · Post #312 » by **JMac1** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:11 am

Johnlac1 wrote:
Gordon wrote:What if Kaminsky struggles adjusting to the NBA 3-point line? I doubt he will be 40% 3-point shooter in the NBA like he was ona limited number of attempts in college. What he brings to the table offensively to offset the fact that he is neither terrific pick and roll defender or rim protector?

Nobody is saying he'll be a great defender. He'll be an adequate rebounder, and he'll have to work hard on onball defense.
But it's Kaminksky's off. potential that has pro scouts intrigued.
Simply put, he has an all-around off. game that few centers in the league have. I hate having to bring up Zaza Pachulia again, but Kaminsky has it all over Zaza. And Zaza is not actually bad on off...he's a good passer, sets strong picks, and can hit an open 15 ft shot. But basically you won't get much off. out of Zaza.
And he's just adequate defensively. His one advantage over Kaminsky, at this point (other than experience), is that he's stronger.
But if Kaminsky can keep from being overwhelmed, the off. potential he has trumps his possible def. weaknesses. He'll probably even be a better shot-blocker than Pachulia....which isn't saying a heck of a lot since Zaza can barely get off the ground.

That is exactly what I just posted on our (Suns) board. It's like people cannot understand that concept. I don't here people complaining about Steph Curry's defensive deficiencies like they did pre-draft.

JMac1 · Post #313 » by **JMac1** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am

BoutPractice wrote:One thing to keep in mind when it comes to seniors is, did they improve "automatically" due to age vs competition / playing time opportunities? Or did they improve because they significantly raised their game (ie they're late bloomers)?

To me it seems Kaminsky belongs in that latter category. He also strikes me as someone who desperately wants to prove the doubters wrong.

So while I'm still reasonably skeptical I don't think his profile puts an arbitrary ceiling on his next level potential.

That is what I see with this guy. Good explanatory post for the laymen.

Johnlac1 · Post #314 » by **Johnlac1** » Mon May 18, 2015 3:29 am

JMac1 wrote:
Johnlac1 wrote:
Gordon wrote:What if Kaminsky struggles adjusting to the NBA 3-point line? I doubt he will be 40% 3-point shooter in the NBA like he was ona limited number of attempts in college. What he brings to the table offensively to offset the fact that he is neither terrific pick and roll defender or rim protector?

Nobody is saying he'll be a great defender. He'll be an adequate rebounder, and he'll have to work hard on onball defense.
But it's Kaminksky's off. potential that has pro scouts intrigued.
Simply put, he has an all-around off. game that few centers in the league have. I hate having to bring up Zaza Pachulia again, but Kaminsky has it all over Zaza. And Zaza is not actually bad on off...he's a good passer, sets strong picks, and can hit an open 15 ft shot. But basically you won't get much off. out of Zaza.
And he's just adequate defensively. His one advantage over Kaminsky, at this point (other than experience), is that he's stronger.
But if Kaminsky can keep from being overwhelmed, the off. potential he has trumps his possible def. weaknesses. He'll probably even be a better shot-blocker than Pachulia....which isn't saying a heck of a lot since Zaza can barely get off the ground.

That is exactly what I just posted on our (Suns) board. It's like people cannot understand that concept. I don't here people complaining about Steph Curry's defensive deficiencies like they did pre-draft.

The name of the game is still scoring more pts. than the other team...or player. There's a number of centers, like Al Jefferson, who are just mediocre def. players. Jefferson doesn't get overwhelmed but he's no threat to be def. player of the year.
However, Jefferson usually outscores his opp. If the guy guarding him can't stop Al from scoring (and few centers can), then his positive output will have to equal what Al is doing.
That means the guy will have excellent stats in other areas. If Kaminsky can step in and score pts., he'll get playing time whether he's having def. problems or not. He'd have to be a complete sieve....which I doubt he'll be.

Chuck Everett · Post #315 » by **Chuck Everett** » Mon May 18, 2015 4:43 am

Al Jefferson is a horrible defensive player. He never defends pick and rolls. His offense makes the team at best a .500 team. Big deal.

BringtheD · Post #316 » by **BringtheD** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:31 pm

in the athletic tools department i put kaminsky in between nowitzki and okur. less athletic than nowitzki but more athletic than okur. does the difference in athleticism between dirk and frank prevent kaminsky from becoming like dirk? I like to think kaminsky has the tools to be like dirk but idk, I don't see a big difference in athleticisim, and they are both better shooters than okur. I think frank has a step okur didn't, and i'd be surprised if kaminsky isn't better than okur was.

HeartBreakKid · Post #317 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:11 pm

Dirk was a way better athlete than Frank. Dirk was really fast for a 7 footer, even fast for a power forward when he was young.

Dr Positivity · Post #318 » by **Dr Positivity** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:22 pm

Agreed, Dirk is probably one of the most underrated athletes I've seen

BringtheD · Post #319 » by **BringtheD** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:28 pm

HeartBreakKid wrote:Dirk was a way better athlete than Frank. Dirk was really fast for a 7 footer, even fast for a power forward when he was young.

ya i remember that about dirk, i don't think kaminsky will ever get the tough buckets you expect from dirk. now that i've thought about it a little more i'd have to say that kaminsky is probably closer to okur than dirk in my comparison. kaminsky is still in between those two in the athletic department, that's still a very good offensive player, he has a step okur didn't. i'd say kaminsky has average speed for a power forward as far as being able to do what dirk does.

LofJ · Post #320 » by **LofJ** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:35 pm

Some guys stay all four years in school because they want to, not because they needed the extra time to get the attention of the NBA. Kaminsky put up equally impressive numbers last year and would have been a 1st round pick last year had he declared.

Kris Dunn is going to be a great case of this next year. His athleticism, steal rate, and A/TO ration would have had scouts drooling about him. He is a better prospect than Cam Payne and would have made the lottery had he declared. He is likely going to dominate college basketball next year and will still be in the lottery conversation if he doesn't get hurt. The same could be said of Duncan, he would have been the number one pick had he declared as a Junior. He stayed another year and was still the #1 pick. Not all four year college guys should be labeled as fully developed, low ceiling players.