Dark Horse Rookie

[Marcus]

so you're assuming that mirotic isn't coming next yr then.
even if he doesn't, you realize that taj gibson is one of the best back up big men in the game this yr, basically getting starter's minutes and he's getting 13/7 after yrs in the league? payne is supposed to equal that type of production right off the bat as a rookie? i doubt that.
i doubt a lot of things about payne's game though. if mirotic does come over, i think they'd be pretty redundant.

who's your candidate sir?

[CaliBullsFan]

Since post is about "Rookie" production, and not necessarily prospect upside, I'll take Adrien Payne. I'll call it now: Payne to Chicago, and he will be one of the 3 most productive rookies in '15.

I could see him putting up a solid 12-7 next year backing up Taj and Jo

so you're assuming that mirotic isn't coming next yr then.
even if he doesn't, you realize that taj gibson is one of the best back up big men in the game this yr, basically getting starter's minutes and he's getting 13/7 after yrs in the league? payne is supposed to equal that type of production right off the bat as a rookie? i doubt that.
i doubt a lot of things about payne's game though. if mirotic does come over, i think they'd be pretty redundant.

I am assuming Boozer who averages 14-8 won't be on the team, I am also assuming Rose will be back and there will be more points and rebounds to go around. 12 and 7 for Payne seems realistic

[ManualRam]

so you're assuming that mirotic isn't coming next yr then.
even if he doesn't, you realize that taj gibson is one of the best back up big men in the game this yr, basically getting starter's minutes and he's getting 13/7 after yrs in the league? payne is supposed to equal that type of production right off the bat as a rookie? i doubt that.
i doubt a lot of things about payne's game though. if mirotic does come over, i think they'd be pretty redundant.

who's your candidate sir?

i like the mcgary pick, of course with his caveats. he actually has to declare and be healthy. i think he's physically ready to compete, plays with a great motor and does all the little things that coaches love that would get him time on the floor as a rook, like set monster screens, roll hard, box out, hustle after loose balls and seal defenders.

as for a perimeter player, for a deep sleeper i'd be looking for a player who's strong enough to physically compete and not be overwhelmed. a player who can defend and has at least one translatable offensive skill. jabari brown fits the bill. he's already strong enough to compete physically, is a good man defender, can catch and shoot, attack closeouts, has the strength to play through contact and has a knack for drawing fouls.

[ManualRam]

I could see him putting up a solid 12-7 next year backing up Taj and Jo

so you're assuming that mirotic isn't coming next yr then.
even if he doesn't, you realize that taj gibson is one of the best back up big men in the game this yr, basically getting starter's minutes and he's getting 13/7 after yrs in the league? payne is supposed to equal that type of production right off the bat as a rookie? i doubt that.
i doubt a lot of things about payne's game though. if mirotic does come over, i think they'd be pretty redundant.

I am assuming Boozer who averages 14-8 won't be on the team, I am also assuming Rose will be back and there will be more points and rebounds to go around. 12 and 7 for Payne seems realistic

here is the list of bench bigs, who were not at least part time starters, to average at least 12/7 this past season (technically, gibson did not reach that threshold):






there are none. you're basically saying that it's realistic to say that payne will be one of the best, most productive bigs off the bench in the entire league as a rookie. not only do i not think he'd have the opportunity, but i don't think he's good enough to achieve that.

[CaliBullsFan]

??? Taj averaged 13-7, and he only started 8 games all year so i think its safe to call him a full time bench player.

i think it is realistic for Payne to take Taj's role to put up similar #s. Again I also assume with Rose back there will be more points and rebounds to go around. Why don't you like Payne? He already has an NBA body, high basketball IQ, plus athlete and physical. I think he's clearly better than Taj was coming out of SC

[ManualRam]

??? Taj averaged 13-7, and he only started 8 games all year so i think its safe to call him a full time bench player.

i think it is realistic for Payne to take Taj's role to put up similar #s. Again I also assume with Rose back there will be more points and rebounds to go around.

i said technically, which is true. he averaged 6.8 rebs a game. in any case, i highly doubt rookie payne would be as good as taj is now. you're basically saying that it's realistic that payne will be the best non-starting big in the league right off the bat. i can't agree with that at all.

[CaliBullsFan]

??? Taj averaged 13-7, and he only started 8 games all year so i think its safe to call him a full time bench player.

i think it is realistic for Payne to take Taj's role to put up similar #s. Again I also assume with Rose back there will be more points and rebounds to go around.

i said technically, which is true. he averaged 6.8 rebs a game. in any case, i highly doubt rookie payne would be as good as taj is now. you're basically saying that it's realistic that payne will be the best non-starting big in the league right off the bat. i can't agree with that at all.

Being the best non-starting big in today's NBA is not a great feat.

It is more about his role than him being as good as Taj. If he took Taj's role I don't see why he can't put up similar #s and again it would be easier to do if Rose's back in the lineup.

[ManualRam]

??? Taj averaged 13-7, and he only started 8 games all year so i think its safe to call him a full time bench player.

i think it is realistic for Payne to take Taj's role to put up similar #s. Again I also assume with Rose back there will be more points and rebounds to go around.

i said technically, which is true. he averaged 6.8 rebs a game. in any case, i highly doubt rookie payne would be as good as taj is now. you're basically saying that it's realistic that payne will be the best non-starting big in the league right off the bat. i can't agree with that at all.

Being the best non-starting big in today's NBA is not a great feat.

It is more about his role than him being as good as Taj. If he took Taj's role I don't see why he can't put up similar #s and again it would be easier to do if Rose's back in the lineup.

it actually is a pretty big feat. 12/7 for a big is 6MOY territory. you can't tell me that isn't an accomplishment. i don't think he could replicate taj's role either. it took taj 5 yrs to become as good as he is now. it took him this long to be a legit post up threat and mid-range shooter. payne doesn't have a translatable post up game. his footwork sucks and he has very few counters. i don't see much of his offensive game translating, except for maybe his stretch capability, but even his stretch capability has some question marks surrounding it too. he's got a low release, deliberate shot set up with no counter if defenders close out on him hard.

[CaliBullsFan]

i said technically, which is true. he averaged 6.8 rebs a game. in any case, i highly doubt rookie payne would be as good as taj is now. you're basically saying that it's realistic that payne will be the best non-starting big in the league right off the bat. i can't agree with that at all.

Being the best non-starting big in today's NBA is not a great feat.

It is more about his role than him being as good as Taj. If he took Taj's role I don't see why he can't put up similar #s and again it would be easier to do if Rose's back in the lineup.

it actually is a pretty big feat. 12/7 for a big is 6MOY territory. you can't tell me that isn't an accomplishment. i don't think he could replicate taj's role either. it took taj 5 yrs to become as good as he is now. it took him this long to be legit post up threat and mid-range shooter. payne doesn't have a translatable post up game. his footwork sucks and he has very few counters. i don't see much of his offensive game translating, except for maybe his stretch capability, but even his stretch capability has some question marks surrounding it too. he's got a low release, deliberate shot set up with no counter if defenders close out on him hard.

The days of Anthony Mason and Clifford Robinson coming off the bench are long gone. Being better than Ryan Anderson isn't a big deal. i don't think a skilled post game is really necessary he can get 12 points mostly off put backs, drop passes and spot ups which with Rose back there will be a lot more of.

[Johnlac1]

C.J Fair.

[ManualRam]

Being the best non-starting big in today's NBA is not a great feat.

It is more about his role than him being as good as Taj. If he took Taj's role I don't see why he can't put up similar #s and again it would be easier to do if Rose's back in the lineup.

it actually is a pretty big feat. 12/7 for a big is 6MOY territory. you can't tell me that isn't an accomplishment. i don't think he could replicate taj's role either. it took taj 5 yrs to become as good as he is now. it took him this long to be legit post up threat and mid-range shooter. payne doesn't have a translatable post up game. his footwork sucks and he has very few counters. i don't see much of his offensive game translating, except for maybe his stretch capability, but even his stretch capability has some question marks surrounding it too. he's got a low release, deliberate shot set up with no counter if defenders close out on him hard.

The days of Anthony Mason and Clifford Robinson coming off the bench are long gone. Being better than Ryan Anderson isn't a big deal. i don't think a skilled post game is really necessary he can get 12 points mostly off put backs, drop passes and spot ups which with Rose back there will be a lot more of.

ok, so you think payne will be good enough to be a 6MOY candidate as a rookie.
i don't.
i hope the bulls look elsewhere for a big, especially if mirotic does come over.

[CBB_Fan]

I always like guys with unconventional skillsets, so I'm hoping Kyle Anderson finds his place. If McGary falls, I think he could be next season's Dieng or Plumlee. Warren, Early, and McDermott are the best scorers I've seen that aren't projected in the lottery.

[Jmonty580]

Someone who might not even get drafted, Sean Kilpatrick. That kid has the NBA strength already being a 5th year senior and he really could have won AAC POY over Shabazz Napier, he gave Uconn fits (and alot of other teams, but i'm a Uconn fan). I could see that kid making a summer league roster, and earning a spot on a team. Finally getting a chance to show what he can do and doing really well.

[babyjax13]

Patric Young and DeAndre Kane both strike me as guys that could be useful role players right off the bat from later in the draft.

[Fat]

Semaj Christon

[Moooose]

Russ Smith. Stock could be higher but it seems like he is a mid 2nd rounder at best.
Also Patric Young, would love to see the results of the physicals and the combine and see if his stock improves.

[ColdBlooded]

PJ Hairston.

dude can flat out shoot. has good size and should be able to score the ball from day 1.

[EMG518]

Russ Smith. Stock could be higher but it seems like he is a mid 2nd rounder at best.
Also Patric Young, would love to see the results of the physicals and the combine and see if his stock improves.

I agree on Russ Smith, his draft stock should be higher and I like him as a sleeper. There is practically nobody looking at him.

[doordoor123]

Russ Smith. Stock could be higher but it seems like he is a mid 2nd rounder at best.
Also Patric Young, would love to see the results of the physicals and the combine and see if his stock improves.

I agree on Russ Smith, his draft stock should be higher and I like him as a sleeper. There is practically nobody looking at him.

He's really quick, a good defender, can score in bunches, can pass well and can jump. His knocks are that he's undersized, older and can't shoot the three well. On the bright side, his three-point shooting wasn't terrible this past season -- hes improved. Another positive note, he improved his entire game this past season. Should be enough to give him a look.

I agree. He's definitely a dark horse.

Two other dark horses at the point are DeAndre Kane and Kendall Williams.

Shooting guards, Markel Brown, Casey Prather and Jabari Brown.

Small Forwards, Melvin Ejim and Thanasis Antetokounmpo.

Power Forwards, Khem Birch, Cory Jefferson and Shawn Long.

Centers, Jordan Bachynski and Alec Brown.

[LloydFree]

I like the Russ Smith nomination for Darkhorse rookie. I like the mentions of Semaj Christon and Markel Brown, but not for Rookie Production. I think they are Darkhorse 'prospects' period, and will be productive NBA players down the line, not necessarily in their rookie years.