Elfrid Payton

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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#41 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 11:26 am

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
except Payton attacks the rim like Parker and Claxton never did. I agree he shouldnt be compared to Payton, but his ability to get to the rim, plus great defense and athleticism, to compare to Parker/Claxton is a disservice also


I don't agree with you. You are making Elfrid Payton out to be some special prospect as if people haven't seen this same exact scenario in the past. I have seen more talented players like Jeff Teague receive less respect at this point in the draft process than Elfrid is receiving. That could be because this is a weaker draft for PG prospects than 2009, but it can't be overlooked that Elfrid Payton competed against low level competition and still didn't absolutely dominate. How can someone have great defense if they didn't compete against good competition? Why did he turn the ball over so much against weak competition?


As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.


That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#42 » by tiderulz » Sun Jun 8, 2014 1:50 pm

Dukenukem23 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Dukenukem23 wrote:He's a rondo without the elite passing ability. How good can that be? A liability on offence and a beast on defense. He should be a decent role player but take him too early and he's going to be a bust.


how is he a liability on offense? not a 3pt threat now, but excellent at the basket. scores better than Rondo ever did.


Any player without any sort of jumpshot is a liability and his passing is not good enough to makeup for it like Rondos is.


so even though he had more assists on a worse team in college, his passing isnt as good as Rondo's? :-?
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#43 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 2:13 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
I don't agree with you. You are making Elfrid Payton out to be some special prospect as if people haven't seen this same exact scenario in the past. I have seen more talented players like Jeff Teague receive less respect at this point in the draft process than Elfrid is receiving. That could be because this is a weaker draft for PG prospects than 2009, but it can't be overlooked that Elfrid Payton competed against low level competition and still didn't absolutely dominate. How can someone have great defense if they didn't compete against good competition? Why did he turn the ball over so much against weak competition?


As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.


That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?


You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#44 » by BoutPractice » Sun Jun 8, 2014 2:30 pm

Another potential high reward pick from this draft (and not necessarily high risk either, there's a high probability you're at least getting a solid rotation player). If he falls outside of the top 20 he could be a steal. With great physical tools, evidence of production and strengths suited to the NBA game, you might be looking at something special.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#45 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 3:28 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.


That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?


You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


This season Shabazz Napier scored 720 points with 234 rebounds and 195 assists.
With 5 more assists he would have accomplished this very same feat you value. I don't value this 600,200, 200 threshold you have concocted.
In 2008-09 Nick Calathes produced 618 points, 192 rebounds, and 231 assists
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#46 » by texasholdem » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:09 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote: I don't value this 600,200, 200 threshold you have concocted.
In 2008-09 Nick Calathes produced 618 points, 192 rebounds, and 231 assists


Hey Nick is a solid NBA player. He would have been a first rounder if he had not gone to Europe after his sophomore season.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#47 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:33 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?


You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


This season Shabazz Napier scored 720 points with 234 rebounds and 195 assists.
With 5 more assists he would have accomplished this very same feat you value. I don't value this 600,200, 200 threshold you have concocted.
In 2008-09 Nick Calathes produced 618 points, 192 rebounds, and 231 assists


Thanks for pointing out more players who failed to reach said plateau, but there has been literally thousands of them, it's really not necessary.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#48 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 5:59 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


This season Shabazz Napier scored 720 points with 234 rebounds and 195 assists.
With 5 more assists he would have accomplished this very same feat you value. I don't value this 600,200, 200 threshold you have concocted.
In 2008-09 Nick Calathes produced 618 points, 192 rebounds, and 231 assists


Thanks for pointing out more players who failed to reach said plateau, but there has been literally thousands of them, it's really not necessary.


I think the arbitrary 600 points, 200 rebounds, 200 assist numbers you selected had cache before I revealed that it has in fact been done since Penny Hardaway. Actually Penny Hardway scored 729 points his final college season, Elfrid scored 672. So what happens if I boost the scoring threshold up to 720, which is much closer to where Penny was at, and lower the assists down to 190? Norris Cole and Shabazz Napier appear as the only two guys to do it since Penny Hardaway...
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#49 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:03 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
This season Shabazz Napier scored 720 points with 234 rebounds and 195 assists.
With 5 more assists he would have accomplished this very same feat you value. I don't value this 600,200, 200 threshold you have concocted.
In 2008-09 Nick Calathes produced 618 points, 192 rebounds, and 231 assists


Thanks for pointing out more players who failed to reach said plateau, but there has been literally thousands of them, it's really not necessary.


I think the arbitrary 600 points, 200 rebounds, 200 assist numbers you selected had cache before I revealed that it has in fact been done since Penny Hardaway. Actually Penny Hardway scored 729 points his final college season, Elfrid scored 672. So what happens if I boost the scoring threshold up to 720, which is much closer to where Penny was at, and lower the assists down to 190? Norris Cole and Shabazz Napier appear as the only two guys to do it since Penny Hardaway...


And the point would be?
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#50 » by Talent Chaser » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:20 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
I don't agree with you. You are making Elfrid Payton out to be some special prospect as if people haven't seen this same exact scenario in the past. I have seen more talented players like Jeff Teague receive less respect at this point in the draft process than Elfrid is receiving. That could be because this is a weaker draft for PG prospects than 2009, but it can't be overlooked that Elfrid Payton competed against low level competition and still didn't absolutely dominate. How can someone have great defense if they didn't compete against good competition? Why did he turn the ball over so much against weak competition?


As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.


That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?

Payton is on a different level as an athlete than the guys you just listed, and he's only 20 years old. There is no reason Smart should be picked over EP. Elfrid led his team to the tournament and almost led them to a win against Creighton, he's a better leader than Smart. Also, from a pure physical standpoint Payton is the better prospect on offense and defense. He's also a pure point, he had a late growth spurt while in college which made him the prospect he is. He's much more of a pure pg than Smart; Smart is an undersized 2 who plays bully ball and lacks the vision and patience to play the PG position in the nba. Payton is the best P&R PG in the draft.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#51 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:34 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
Thanks for pointing out more players who failed to reach said plateau, but there has been literally thousands of them, it's really not necessary.


I think the arbitrary 600 points, 200 rebounds, 200 assist numbers you selected had cache before I revealed that it has in fact been done since Penny Hardaway. Actually Penny Hardway scored 729 points his final college season, Elfrid scored 672. So what happens if I boost the scoring threshold up to 720, which is much closer to where Penny was at, and lower the assists down to 190? Norris Cole and Shabazz Napier appear as the only two guys to do it since Penny Hardaway...


And the point would be?


Elfrid was in fact not the only player to produce the arbitrary numbers you stated hadn't been produced since Penny. Additionally once arbitrary numbers are produced which are closer to Penny's actual statistics, Elfrid is then excluded and only two players are left who have produced 720 points 200 rebounds and 190 assists since Penny.
So this is clearly a numbers game that holds zero weight once the novelty of being able to say "this is the first guy to do this since Penny Hardaway" has been exposed as a lie.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#52 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:44 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
I think the arbitrary 600 points, 200 rebounds, 200 assist numbers you selected had cache before I revealed that it has in fact been done since Penny Hardaway. Actually Penny Hardway scored 729 points his final college season, Elfrid scored 672. So what happens if I boost the scoring threshold up to 720, which is much closer to where Penny was at, and lower the assists down to 190? Norris Cole and Shabazz Napier appear as the only two guys to do it since Penny Hardaway...


And the point would be?


Elfrid was in fact not the only player to produce the arbitrary numbers you stated hadn't been produced since Penny. Additionally once arbitrary numbers are produced which are closer to Penny's actual statistics, Elfrid is then excluded and only two players are left who have produced 720 points 200 rebounds and 190 assists since Penny.
So this is clearly a numbers game that holds zero weight once the novelty of being able to say "this is the first guy to do this since Penny Hardaway" has been exposed as a lie.


In fact my friend, it was not false, if we're going to get antsy about it, he completed said feat on the 16th of March 2014. It wasn't until the 28th of March 2014 that DeAndre Kane scored his 600th point... So if you're keeping up, Elfrid Payton was indeed, the first college player since Penny Hardaway to accomplish the benchmark.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#53 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 6:47 pm

Talent Chaser wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
As for not dominating the weak conference? Fairly sure he was the first college player to have 600pts 200rebs and 200asts in a season since Penny Hardaway, if that's not dominant enough, I'm not sure what would be.


That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?

Payton is on a different level as an athlete than the guys you just listed, and he's only 20 years old. There is no reason Smart should be picked over EP.


Yeah but he's still pretty ordinary athletically by NBA standards. He put up a 35.5" vertical with a 3.23 sprint and an 8'2.5" standing reach. That's not impressive at all. His athleticism is far overrated because most people don't adjust for level of competition. Elfrid's game tape is against lower level competition and most people do not naturally mentally adjust to the inferior level of athleticism that Eldrid was running circles around. Eldrid is just the Speedy Claxton, Smush Parker, Norris Cole, and George Hill of this draft.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#54 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 7:00 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
Talent Chaser wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
That's false. DeAndre Kane produced the same 600, 200, and 200 during this past season and did it in the Big 12, so should he be a 1st round pick too? Evan Turner was on pace to do it but missed some games due to injury. He did it on a per game average against Big 10 competition, how has his NBA career turned out?

Payton is on a different level as an athlete than the guys you just listed, and he's only 20 years old. There is no reason Smart should be picked over EP.


Yeah but he's still pretty ordinary athletically by NBA standards. He put up a 35.5" vertical with a 3.23 sprint and an 8'2.5" standing reach. That's not impressive at all. His athleticism is far overrated because most people don't adjust for level of competition. Elfrid's game tape is against lower level competition and most people do not naturally mentally adjust to the inferior level of athleticism that Eldrid was running circles around. Eldrid is just the Speedy Claxton, Smush Parker, Norris Cole, and George Hill of this draft.


Combine measurements to measure athleticism? So I guess Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook are pretty ordinary athletes too.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#55 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 7:04 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
And the point would be?


Elfrid was in fact not the only player to produce the arbitrary numbers you stated hadn't been produced since Penny. Additionally once arbitrary numbers are produced which are closer to Penny's actual statistics, Elfrid is then excluded and only two players are left who have produced 720 points 200 rebounds and 190 assists since Penny.
So this is clearly a numbers game that holds zero weight once the novelty of being able to say "this is the first guy to do this since Penny Hardaway" has been exposed as a lie.


In fact my friend, it was not false, if we're going to get antsy about it, he completed said feat on the 16th of March 2014. It wasn't until the 28th of March 2014 that DeAndre Kane scored his 600th point... So if you're keeping up, Elfrid Payton was indeed, the first college player since Penny Hardaway to accomplish the benchmark.


So why did you make this earlier post?

GREENE1148 wrote:You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


You're continuing to be disingenuous... Am I correct or are you correct? You stated that I was correct and that it was your fault. That clearly reveals how you meant "first." You had no clue that a guy that isn't even projected to get drafted accomplished the same "benchmark" against better competition in the Big 12.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#56 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 7:14 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
Elfrid was in fact not the only player to produce the arbitrary numbers you stated hadn't been produced since Penny. Additionally once arbitrary numbers are produced which are closer to Penny's actual statistics, Elfrid is then excluded and only two players are left who have produced 720 points 200 rebounds and 190 assists since Penny.
So this is clearly a numbers game that holds zero weight once the novelty of being able to say "this is the first guy to do this since Penny Hardaway" has been exposed as a lie.


In fact my friend, it was not false, if we're going to get antsy about it, he completed said feat on the 16th of March 2014. It wasn't until the 28th of March 2014 that DeAndre Kane scored his 600th point... So if you're keeping up, Elfrid Payton was indeed, the first college player since Penny Hardaway to accomplish the benchmark.


So why did you make this earlier post?

GREENE1148 wrote:You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


You're continuing to be disingenuous... Am I correct or are you correct? You stated that I was correct and that it was your fault. That clearly reveals how you meant "first." You had no clue that a guy that isn't even projected to get drafted accomplished the same "benchmark."


You were wrong all along, I felt the need to reward your efforts in going to sports-reference, and spending the time out of your day to look it up, like you needed the satisfaction, but after continuing to act like a door handle about it, I decided that you didn't deserve it at all.

Why is DeAndre Kane not projected to be drafted? Something to do with him being 25 years old on draft day? I clearly pointed out, in my original post (though you decided to cut it out), that Payton was only 20 year old junior... Him putting up 600/200/200 was clearly not my only reasoning for thinking highly of him as a prospect, which is what you've been trying to insinuate for the last 8 hours.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#57 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 7:27 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:
GREENE1148 wrote:
In fact my friend, it was not false, if we're going to get antsy about it, he completed said feat on the 16th of March 2014. It wasn't until the 28th of March 2014 that DeAndre Kane scored his 600th point... So if you're keeping up, Elfrid Payton was indeed, the first college player since Penny Hardaway to accomplish the benchmark.


So why did you make this earlier post?

GREENE1148 wrote:You're correct, my fault, I looked it up once Payton had completed the feat, at which point Kane hadn't. The point stands, he dominated the competition, with Kane being the only other guy since 1997 to manage it, and he was 5 years Payton's senior.


You're continuing to be disingenuous... Am I correct or are you correct? You stated that I was correct and that it was your fault. That clearly reveals how you meant "first." You had no clue that a guy that isn't even projected to get drafted accomplished the same "benchmark."


You were wrong all along, I felt the need to reward your efforts in going to sports-reference, and spending the time out of your day to look it up, like you needed the satisfaction, but after continuing to act like a door handle about it, I decided that you didn't deserve it at all.

Why is DeAndre Kane not projected to be drafted? Something to do with him being 25 years old on draft day? I clearly pointed out, in my original post (though you decided to cut it out), that Payton was only 20 year old junior... Him putting up 600/200/200 was clearly not my only reasoning for thinking highly of him as a prospect, which is what you've been trying to insinuate for the last 8 hours.


Good, so you "reward" me by telling a lie? :crazy:

That's in addition to dragging Penny Hardaway's name through the mud by putting him in the company of a Sun Belt Conference junior that isn't projected in the month of June to be drafted in the lottery by most credible sources and a 24 year old Big 12 player that isn't projected to get drafted at all. Good job.
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#58 » by GREENE1148 » Sun Jun 8, 2014 7:32 pm

SelfishPlayer wrote:Good, so you "reward" me by telling a lie? :crazy:

That's in addition to dragging Penny Hardaway's name through the mud by putting him in the company of a Sun Belt Conference junior that isn't projected in the month of June to be drafted in the lottery by most credible sources and a 24 year old Big 12 player that isn't projected to get drafted at all. Good job.


I guess the same is in order for you judging Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook as 'ordinary athletes by NBA standards'. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#59 » by Old Man Game » Sun Jun 8, 2014 8:08 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Good, so you "reward" me by telling a lie? :crazy:

That's in addition to dragging Penny Hardaway's name through the mud by putting him in the company of a Sun Belt Conference junior that isn't projected in the month of June to be drafted in the lottery by most credible sources and a 24 year old Big 12 player that isn't projected to get drafted at all. Good job.


I guess the same is in order for you judging Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook as 'ordinary athletes by NBA standards'. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Speaking of his combine performance, it's interesting looking at how he measured out in Chicago versus his numbers from Team USA. They had him with a 8'5" standing reach and now only 8'2.5" a year later and yet had him with an inch longer wingspan (6'8" to 6'7"). How does stuff like that happen?
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Re: Elfrid Payton 

Post#60 » by SelfishPlayer » Sun Jun 8, 2014 8:57 pm

GREENE1148 wrote:
SelfishPlayer wrote:Good, so you "reward" me by telling a lie? :crazy:

That's in addition to dragging Penny Hardaway's name through the mud by putting him in the company of a Sun Belt Conference junior that isn't projected in the month of June to be drafted in the lottery by most credible sources and a 24 year old Big 12 player that isn't projected to get drafted at all. Good job.


I guess the same is in order for you judging Blake Griffin and Russell Westbrook as 'ordinary athletes by NBA standards'. :lol: :lol: :lol:


What is your post based upon some secret "benchmarks" that you don't want to reveal this time?
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