Coming out of HS Okafor vs. Timmy D

[Mr Sixer]

I was thinking of what Okafor's ceiling is in the NBA and what makes him considered the best prospect of the 2015 class right now. I was thinking that this is the opinion only because he is the most NBA ready prospect and I was not so high on him because his athleticism is not great, but I then thought that we have had good C/PF prospects who have not been very athletic.

I don't know a lot of the perception of Timmy D coming out of HS, so would you guys care to give your opinions on (ignoring the hype) the differences in skillsets, athleticism, and anything else between Timmy D and Okafor. Another example to a much lesser extent that I could think of comparing Okafor to is Al Jefferson. I'm not an expert by any means on upcoming prospects so if you have any insight on better comparisons for not-so-athletic C/PF prospects that have had successful NBA careers share that as well.

[LloydFree]

Okafor has an exponentially higher profile than Tim Duncan going into college. Rasheed Wallace was the top big man for the incoming '94 Freshman class, by far. And Joe Smith (Maryland) got just as many accolades as Tim Duncan and Rasheed Wallace during their Freshman year. Similar to Embiid this year, by the end of the season, everybody realized Duncan was the truth.

[Wooderson]

Duncan didn't start playing competitive ball until he was like 15 so he was much earlier on in his developmental curve. Pretty difficult to make a comparison unless you're someone like Dave Odom, who recruited Duncan during that time.

[Marcus]

I was thinking of what Okafor's ceiling is in the NBA and what makes him considered the best prospect of the 2015 class right now. I was thinking that this is the opinion only because he is the most NBA ready prospect and I was not so high on him because his athleticism is not great, but I then thought that we have had good C/PF prospects who have not been very athletic.

I don't know a lot of the perception of Timmy D coming out of HS, so would you guys care to give your opinions on (ignoring the hype) the differences in skillsets, athleticism, and anything else between Timmy D and Okafor. Another example to a much lesser extent that I could think of comparing Okafor to is Al Jefferson. I'm not an expert by any means on upcoming prospects so if you have any insight on better comparisons for not-so-athletic C/PF prospects that have had successful NBA careers share that as well.

Al Jeff would be the best comp in terms of back to the basket skillset sans athleticism. I think the Duncan comp comes from his advanced IQ for this stage. Jahlil will/should be impressive in college and will/should be a very good pro. Not sure how limiting his lack of athleticism will be on the offensive end, but I personally think he will be able to get around it fairly easily. The jumper is coming along, he handles the ball fairly well in tight space for quick burst which is what he'll need to do be able to do to help get around the length. Defensively he more than likely won't be a rim protector but if he can give his body up for charges and just play position defense and challenge with his length. I think the big thing will be on the boards. He gobbles up whatever he can reach but he doesn't necessarily pursue boards. I think that's something he'll need to improve on and I think he will. He's been dedicated to the necessary work and I don't think that stops now.

He won't have the upside that some of the other picks might because his game is so complete that its a gift and a curse. He will/should be very good for whomever picks him for a long time though.

[RSCD3_]

He (okafor) has looked a lot slimmer in recent photos


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[Mr Sixer]

I watched the hoop summit game last night and was impressed by him. Stayed patient even though he kept getting double teamed and the few moves he tried to make were good. He tried dribbling a few times out of the double team and lost the ball stupidly, but his ball handling looked smooth for his position. Was also impressed by his defense and quick feet on Mudiay, who was one of the more explosive players on the court.

Like I said before though, if it wasn't for Timmy D I would think his ceiling is an Al Jefferson type player because of the lack of relatively unathletic back to the basket centers in the league these days, which is not a great ceiling for a no 1 overall pick. However I can't help but think that he is just as advanced as Timmy was at his age so who knows. But maybe what made Duncan so great was his great work ethic, calm personality and coachability which is why he worked so well with Pop, however is very hard to replicate. If it is because of this, you might be better off drafting Mudiay whose ceiling is higher imo than Al Jeff.

Also, I realize I'm thinking of this in black and white terms and he could potentially play similarly to Al Jeff but just be better, yet still be below Duncan, which is why I would appreciate other comparisons to skilled but unathletic big men

[Marcus]

Maybe Marc Gasol defensively in terms of using length and positioning to challenge and cutoff. I remember that sequence against Manny and it was pretty impressive to see him move his feet like that. So if he decides to dedicate to that end he could be effective in his own way.

Also the high post potential of the other Gasol bro if he can get his jumper pristine. But he passes well and puts it on the floor fairly well in short space.

If u wanna vear away from the Al Jeff comparison and I know the un-athletic part won't necessarily apply here but FOOTWORK wise on the low block I see a little Shaq as far as using his body and the quickness on the baseline spins.

[Notanoob]

Okafor apparently doesn't pass the ball at all (.15 A/TO in FIBA play, 0A to 4TO at the Hoops summit), so the Big Al comparison makes even more sense.

That's unfortunate though, because great passing is what really sets apart great post-up guys from the scrubs. Chuck and Shaq were masters at passing out of doubles, so was Hakeem, Kareem, really, all of the non-McHale post-up greats.

[Marcus]

the numbers obviously don't show it. but he's actually a good passer out the post something i've seen with him though and it was pretty prevelant at the Summit and the HSAA games was that he went in playing like he had to justify his position at the top of the class. I think in a more structured setting and not a pickup game invviornment his passing numbers should change. He def has the IQ for it and he's shown it in the past. we'll see though at Duke.

[giberish]

Duncan didn't start playing competitive ball until he was like 15 so he was much earlier on in his developmental curve. Pretty difficult to make a comparison unless you're someone like Dave Odom, who recruited Duncan during that time.

Duncan wasn't even that highly valued by Odom. There was a different big guy who was Wake's most valued incoming guy. Duncan was a secondary recruit even for Wake. Not quite as much of a late bloomer as Robinson as he was actually recruited by an ACC school, but not a top-100 prospect.

[Notanoob]

the numbers obviously don't show it. but he's actually a good passer out the post something i've seen with him though and it was pretty prevelant at the Summit and the HSAA games was that he went in playing like he had to justify his position at the top of the class. I think in a more structured setting and not a pickup game invviornment his passing numbers should change. He def has the IQ for it and he's shown it in the past. we'll see though at Duke.

I don't know, we never saw Parker passing the ball at all either. I suspect Okafor will be asked to just bully the tiny centers that you find on ACC rosters just like Parker did, 40% 3 point shooters be damned.

[Marcus]

I don't know, we never saw Parker passing the ball at all either. I suspect Okafor will be asked to just bully the tiny centers that you find on ACC rosters just like Parker did, 40% 3 point shooters be damned.

Duke has more talent this time around. I don't think they'll need he to be THE offense like Parker was for the most part last year. So hopefully he doesn't go black hole with the talent around him but we shall see. I kinda expect Jahlil to do what he wants for a year anyway, the guy im most intrigued with seeing is Tyus Jones and how Coach K uses him.

[Notanoob]

I don't know, we never saw Parker passing the ball at all either. I suspect Okafor will be asked to just bully the tiny centers that you find on ACC rosters just like Parker did, 40% 3 point shooters be damned.

Duke has more talent this time around. I don't think they'll need he to be THE offense like Parker was for the most part last year. So hopefully he doesn't go black hole with the talent around him but we shall see. I kinda expect Jahlil to do what he wants for a year anyway, the guy im most intrigued with seeing is Tyus Jones and how Coach K uses him.

Duke really didn't need Parker to be THE offense though. They had tons of offensive talent. Hood, Cook and Sulaimon are all good on offense. Everyone in the rotation was a more efficient scorer than Parker (except Sulaimon, who was just .004% worse), and that can't be attributed to Parker because he never passed the ball. They all had significantly better ORTgs than Parker too, although that isn't a fool-proof stat. Duke had one of the top offenses in basketball the year before Parker got there. He was surrounded by a ton of shooters and played in the post a lot. Parker just didn't pass the ball for some reason (either he doesn't have the instincts, didn't want to, or was told not to, but I don't think coach K is dumb enough to tell him not to kick the ball out to 40+% 3 point shooters), and that hurt the team a lot because he struggled to score efficiently against decent defenses ( source- http://deanondraft.com/2014/04/11/jabar ... lo-fellow/ ).

Now, Okafor should struggle against size less than Parker did, because he's a legit center unlike Parker, but he'll still need to show that he can pass the ball naturally, because clearly Coach K won't force him to pass it.

[76ciology]

Okafor just looks like Tim Duncan but his game is more like Al Jeff. Don't be fooled. haha

[Tave]

I don't remember Duncan's freshman and sophomore seasons, but he wasn't a slug athletically going into the draft. It didn't always show up in his offense because his attack was so methodical, but on D he was a nightmare. Time will tell whether Okafor can move as lightly on his feet.

[Marcus]

I don't remember Duncan's freshman and sophomore seasons, but he wasn't a slug athletically going into the draft. It didn't always show up in his offense because his attack was so methodical, but on D he was a nightmare. Time will tell whether Okafor can move as lightly on his feet.

Jahlil is pretty nimble don't know if he will post Duncan type shot block numbers but he can move his feet a bit.

[Chuck Everett]

It's really weird that this narrative of Duncan not being athletic. The 21 year old Duncan coming into the league was actually a helluva an athlete. Aside from his skills, Timmy has elite length, height and probably is one of the strongest players in the league in his lower body (which is why Zach Randolph always has trouble backing him down).

Okafor is a slug compared to young Duncan. If he can be Al Jefferson, he should thank his lucky stars.

[ColdBlooded]

I don't know, we never saw Parker passing the ball at all either. I suspect Okafor will be asked to just bully the tiny centers that you find on ACC rosters just like Parker did, 40% 3 point shooters be damned.

Duke has more talent this time around. I don't think they'll need he to be THE offense like Parker was for the most part last year. So hopefully he doesn't go black hole with the talent around him but we shall see. I kinda expect Jahlil to do what he wants for a year anyway, the guy im most intrigued with seeing is Tyus Jones and how Coach K uses him.

Duke really didn't need Parker to be THE offense though. They had tons of offensive talent. Hood, Cook and Sulaimon are all good on offense. Everyone in the rotation was a more efficient scorer than Parker (except Sulaimon, who was just .004% worse), and that can't be attributed to Parker because he never passed the ball. They all had significantly better ORTgs than Parker too, although that isn't a fool-proof stat. Duke had one of the top offenses in basketball the year before Parker got there. He was surrounded by a ton of shooters and played in the post a lot. Parker just didn't pass the ball for some reason (either he doesn't have the instincts, didn't want to, or was told not to, but I don't think coach K is dumb enough to tell him not to kick the ball out to 40+% 3 point shooters), and that hurt the team a lot because he struggled to score efficiently against decent defenses ( source- http://deanondraft.com/2014/04/11/jabar ... lo-fellow/ ).

Great post.

the numbers obviously don't show it. but he's actually a good passer out the post something i've seen with him though and it was pretty prevelant at the Summit and the HSAA games was that he went in playing like he had to justify his position at the top of the class. I think in a more structured setting and not a pickup game invviornment his passing numbers should change. He def has the IQ for it and he's shown it in the past. we'll see though at Duke.

You mind sharing to everyone where you get this from?

Not many people on this board ever saw Okafor play in a HS game, so that little sample size is all we can lean on.

[HeartBreakKid]

Okafor apparently doesn't pass the ball at all (.15 A/TO in FIBA play, 0A to 4TO at the Hoops summit), so the Big Al comparison makes even more sense.

That's unfortunate though, because great passing is what really sets apart great post-up guys from the scrubs. Chuck and Shaq were masters at passing out of doubles, so was Hakeem, Kareem, really, all of the non-McHale post-up greats.

Moses Malone, Dwight Howard, Alonzo Mourning, Yao Ming - none of those guys are really great passers but still got theirs in the post, and were certainly not scrubs.