Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect

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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#181 » by Johnlac1 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:57 am

Johnny Firpo wrote:
drone3 wrote:Quick eye test, reminds me of Zingis


He is not as athletic and doesn't have the defensive instincts that Kristaps has. I would say he is more like a taller, more athletic Ryan Anderson or Tim Thomas if you have the lazy white-white comparisons.

I would disagree. I think he looks a little quicker than Porzingis. But he's not as long and doesn't look as strong. Probably won't be the def. presence of Porzingis. He'll make his bones on the off end. He better get a little stronger. Of course, he's only 18, so he will get stronger.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#182 » by Johnny Firpo » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:04 am

thr3ep01nte4 wrote:The Spurs are interested

https://twitter.com/IAmDPick/status/682665588636938241


I don't see how they could nab a high enough draft pick... Maybe Boban and two future firsts would be enough for a 5-10 pick? I'm probably way off here for a variety of reasons.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#183 » by Johnny Firpo » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:06 am

Johnlac1 wrote:I would disagree. I think he looks a little quicker than Porzingis. But he's not as long and doesn't look as strong. Probably won't be the def. presence of Porzingis. He'll make his bones on the off end. He better get a little stronger. Of course, he's only 18, so he will get stronger.


Maybe laterally but Porzingis has better hops. Not that it necessarily matters, both are borderline elite athletes for their crazy height.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#184 » by No-Man » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:15 am

Bender is certainly much more fluid, less athletic vertically and not as freakishly long, still quite long though, and less stiff.

I dont see Tim Thomas or Anderson at all, those are really off, Bender is not your typical stretch PF, he is a playmaker, good vision, and a elite defensive prospect, his shooting is still shaky.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#185 » by Johnlac1 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:51 am

One thing that is many times omitted when talking about prospects is their knowledge of the game. I haven't seen Bender except in clips, so I really have to see him in game situations to get a better read on him. I've seen Saric play, and he looks like he won't have a huge adjustment intelligence-wise when he goes to the NBA. Other factors might hinder him, but he seems to have a high BB IQ.
What is helping Porzingis greatly at the moment is the fact that he understands what is going on and what he's doing.
A great many rookies are hindered by their lack of awareness/ BB IQ as much or more than he other factors. Of course, that can be learned, but players who start out with good awareness certainly have an advantage over those who don't know what they're doing.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#186 » by jpatrick » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:39 pm

Does he stay in the draft with his buyout issues? And any clarification on how bad they are? I've read it would be a struggle for him to go before 2019. Hard to justify a top 5 pick you may not see for three years.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#187 » by Von Bismarck » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:14 am

For the 10th time on this thread. Both Bender's agent & mentor Vujcic at Macabbi said Bender indeed has a long contract but also an exit clause, so they highlighted if Bender's picked in TOP5, he can come immediately. It's the same thing as Hezonja.

-this post should be on the first page so people stop asking the same questions again and again.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#188 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Feb 3, 2016 9:32 pm

Bender's team, Maccabi Tel Aviv, after getting eliminated from Euroleague, is struggling like hell to even make it out of the 32 team group stage in the 2nd level European league of Eurocup. They will probably maker it to the Eurocup Top 16, but just barely.

Meanwhile, in the Israeli League, Maccabi is behind Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel has the home court advantage for the playoffs. In fact, Maccabi looks like they might even be in danger of falling into 3rd place in the Israeli League behind Maccabi Haifa.

In other words, this is an awful team that Bender is on (we are talking like this is the by far worst team Maccabi has had in probably decades), and yet, he still can barely get any playing time in a single important game or moment, and when he does, he fails to produce anything.

He's a big man and he's like a high school senior, so obviously he's way too young and can't compete at the level of leagues like Euroleague and Eurocup yet.

Which means that the hype on him, based on where he is currently at as a player, is way out of proportion. Especially when compared to other European players in his same age group, that are just as good or better than him right now, and hardly even get a notice from anyone.

One thing is for sure, if the NBA really wants to draft Bender with a top 3-5 pick, then regardless of that, he should at least stay one more season in Maccabi, or go to an even worse team than Maccabi, like some scrub Adriatic League club, where he can get some decent playing time. It's what Saric was doing in Cibona.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#189 » by Stackey » Wed Feb 3, 2016 11:48 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:Bender's team, Maccabi Tel Aviv, after getting eliminated from Euroleague, is struggling like hell to even make it out of the 32 team group stage in the 2nd level European league of Eurocup. They will probably maker it to the Eurocup Top 16, but just barely.

Meanwhile, in the Israeli League, Maccabi is behind Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel has the home court advantage for the playoffs. In fact, Maccabi looks like they might even be in danger of falling into 3rd place in the Israeli League behind Maccabi Haifa.

In other words, this is an awful team that Bender is on (we are talking like this is the by far worst team Maccabi has had in probably decades), and yet, he still can barely get any playing time in a single important game or moment, and when he does, he fails to produce anything.

He's a big man and he's like a high school senior, so obviously he's way too young and can't compete at the level of leagues like Euroleague and Eurocup yet.

Which means that the hype on him, based on where he is currently at as a player, is way out of proportion. Especially when compared to other European players in his same age group, that are just as good or better than him right now, and hardly even get a notice from anyone.

One thing is for sure, if the NBA really wants to draft Bender with a top 3-5 pick, then regardless of that, he should at least stay one more season in Maccabi, or go to an even worse team than Maccabi, like some scrub Adriatic League club, where he can get some decent playing time. It's what Saric was doing in Cibona.


Bender had some injury problem
https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/694632736347287552

But yes, he isn't playing much. Same with Korkmaz, and they considered as two best 1997 born European prospects, players that some expect on the NBA court for a less than a year. And I don't know why they are not playing.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#190 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 4, 2016 10:46 am

Bender is all good, but do you really think hes top 4 pick material? The risk is just too much, I mean you guys realize he is DNP-CD player on one of the worst Maccabi teams in years. All he has done are great one on none workouts. I guess he showed some flashes, but not enough to justify this hype IMO. That sounds a lot like Darko to me. There just has to be safer picks with potential.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#191 » by Von Bismarck » Thu Feb 4, 2016 5:01 pm

He's been having foot problems for a few weeks now. And about DNP's, similar thing to Hezonja. They're aware he's going to the NBA this summer and after all, why would they develop him for someone else.

And I can only laugh to your comparison with Darko. Darko was head case coming to the league, while Bender is completely opposite. Humble, hard-working and easy to coach.

You should stop underrating Croatian prospects or at least do it less obvious.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#192 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 4, 2016 5:15 pm

I just don't understand what people are expecting from a guy who can't even crack Eurocup caliber rotation?
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#193 » by TheTrooper » Thu Feb 4, 2016 6:44 pm

Darko's problem was in his head.
He really had big potential,but also a huge hole in his head where his brain is supposed to be .
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#194 » by Von Bismarck » Thu Feb 4, 2016 7:26 pm

UcanUwill wrote:I just don't understand what people are expecting from a guy who can't even crack Eurocup caliber rotation?


He was injured, he's obviously not ready as his coach yesterday confirmed he is still battling foot injury. He played Euroleague and Israeli league (regularly) before that. What exactly is your problem?

People still remember you saying Saric is merely a role player in Euroleague and that Hezonja is a bust. Now Bender's on your menu, ha?

Well, too bad for you. Bender will surely go TOP 3-4 and will flourish in the NBA. I will come to remind you when that happens in a few months.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#195 » by UcanUwill » Thu Feb 4, 2016 7:50 pm

Von Bismarck wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:I just don't understand what people are expecting from a guy who can't even crack Eurocup caliber rotation?


He was injured, he's obviously not ready as his coach yesterday confirmed he is still battling foot injury. He played Euroleague and Israeli league (regularly) before that. What exactly is your problem?

People still remember you saying Saric is merely a role player in Euroleague and that Hezonja is a bust. Now Bender's on your menu, ha?

Well, too bad for you. Bender will surely go TOP 3-4 and will flourish in the NBA. I will come to remind you when that happens in a few months.


Geez. I didn't say Hezonja was a bust, I voted to early to tell in that thread. I just said that I wasn't a fan and that he was overhyped in my opinion.
Saric is one of my favorite young players, but he does look like an ultimate role player to me, thats just my opinion. I think he will turn out similar to Diaw.
We will see how Bender will turn out, I am not saying hes a sure bust, I am just saying that he is incredibly risky pick, I think top 4 pick doesn't worth that risk. He proven nothing, thats just fact in my eyes. I compared him to Darko, because just like Darko, he wasn;t dominating Europe and wa mainly hyped and drafted because he nailed one on none workout.

I am not picking on Croatian players here, I have no bias here at all, unlike you I think. Its all good.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#196 » by Dcebucks11 » Thu Feb 4, 2016 8:08 pm

Bender is still young yet, great mobility for a 7 footer.. Doesn't have a great basketball skill yet but we'll see
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#197 » by Von Bismarck » Thu Feb 4, 2016 11:07 pm

UcanUwill wrote: Geez. I didn't say Hezonja was a bust, I voted to early to tell in that thread. I just said that I wasn't a fan and that he was overhyped in my opinion.
Saric is one of my favorite young players, but he does look like an ultimate role player to me, thats just my opinion. I think he will turn out similar to Diaw.
We will see how Bender will turn out, I am not saying hes a sure bust, I am just saying that he is incredibly risky pick, I think top 4 pick doesn't worth that risk. He proven nothing, thats just fact in my eyes. I compared him to Darko, because just like Darko, he wasn;t dominating Europe and wa mainly hyped and drafted because he nailed one on none workout.

I am not picking on Croatian players here, I have no bias here at all, unlike you I think. Its all good.


Mate, I'm not even Croatian if you were pointing that out. I just lived there for a couple of years.

Bender will be picked solely because of his high BBIQ and elite physical attributes for his position. Do you remember Porzingis when he was 17-18? Exactly. Gregg Popovich and the Spurs have been tracking Bender for a while now, their scout is almost exclusively residing in Tel-Aviv scouting Bender. That should tell you something.

Well, I also agree Saric is a role player but in the NBA, a damn good role player on a contender. I expect from him to put 12-5-4 in a couple of years, and around 15-7-5 at his peak. My point is that you said Saric is most likely to end up as a role player in Euroleague, not in the NBA. That's ridiculous, ya' know, he's putting damn good numbers in 20 minutes on the court. They wouldn't have brought Derrick Brow to Efes if Saric hasn't already made clear that he's leaving for Philly this summer. He'd be probably playing 28-30 minutes in that case and you know that as well.

And my apologies for perhaps being a little rude to you, that was not my intention. I was just pissed off at something IRL and brought that to the forums which I shouldn't have done.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#198 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Feb 5, 2016 1:54 am

In this forum, a lot of people repeat a falsehood that in Euroleague teams, young players that are listed on some NBA mock draft somewhere don't get playing time and get benched just because of that.

That's repeated here all the time and always came up in any discussion about Hezonja, now Bender, etc.

Not only is that 100% false and untrue, in actual truth, the exact opposite is true. Players that the NBA has interest in ALWAYS get preferential treatment and MORE playing time than they would otherwise. Because their teams are trying to secure the best possible buyouts for them, and to be able to continue to establish that as a business model in the future, by continuing to have other young players sign with them to be showcased, and for them to get a buyout back.

And to say that Saric would be playing 30 minutes a game in Euroleague, if not for going to the NBA is truly absurd. Players play in Euroleague based on what is best for the team as it relates to winning games. Saric would not play 30 minutes a game on any good Euroleague team, and that is regardless of whether any team ever drafted him. And that is an absolute stone cold fact. You can't name a single good Euroleague team that exists, where he would get 30 minutes of playing time, under any scenario.

It is the NBA that has lottery teams playing young players more minutes than they should be playing, so they can tank, lose games on purpose, and get good draft picks. And the cycle keeps repeating and becomes a huge mess once teams get into that.

That simply does not exist in the Euroleague, where the sole motivation and reason for the teams to be there is to win games, and do whatever is best in order to win games. The NBA is where lesser young players get a special handicap and get to play more, even if they are not good enough to deserve it. That's not the Euroleague, where you get punished for losing, while in the NBA you get rewarded for losing.

It is one thing to just promote certain young European players all the time here, but it's another thing to totally distort reality and truth to fit agendas.

UcanUwill wrote:I just don't understand what people are expecting from a guy who can't even crack Eurocup caliber rotation?


That's totally irrelevant. Eurocup is a higher level than the power NCAA D1 conferences or the D-League. An 18 year old kid is not going to do jack at that level. And these players like Doncic that everyone keeps hyping up here, because at 16 had some good games in Euroleague...if you put him in Eurocup and actually made him play without a star laden team all around him - he would get destroyed immediately at Eurocup level, against even mediocre teams.

The issue is not Eurocup level or cracking a rotation, the issue is he's in the wrong team. He should be in a team where he gets to play, if he really intends to go to the NBA next year and comes off as a top 3-5 pick. Because he's going to be totally unready and the team drafting him will expect him to play immediately and to perform. Add that pressure to the fact that everyone in USA treats European players with a double standard, and it could become a bad situation for him, as thinly veiled xenophobic "Euro bust" labels will come extremely fast and hard from everywhere. Nikola Vujcic is doing him no favors right now.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#199 » by Domejandro » Sat Feb 6, 2016 7:39 am

I actually think Darko could have been an All-Time great centre if he did not go to Detroit to rot on the bench. He was emotionally too unstable to handle that treatment. Whenever he actually gave effort, he was an absolute monster on both ends of the court.

In any case, I am actually not sure about Dragan Bender yet. I see the talent, but unlike Kristaps who I hyped more than almost anyone, I am still kind of weary.
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Re: Dragan Bender - 97 born Croatian prospect 

Post#200 » by thr3ep01nte4 » Mon Feb 8, 2016 2:21 pm

Von Bismarck wrote:Gregg Popovich and the Spurs have been tracking Bender for a while now, their scout is almost exclusively residing in Tel-Aviv scouting Bender. That should tell you something.


I can't even imagine what kind of player he will turn into if the spurs get their hands on him, given the work they have done on Kawhi Leonard. My guess on Spurs Bender would be Draymond Green with some unguardable go-to moves. Scary!!! However, the Spurs may not have enough assets to draft that high. Although it will be different if Duncan and Ginobili choose to retire after this season and they really like Bender and plan for the future of the franchise. (I don't really think Aldridge is the guy to pair up with Leonard for the future.)

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