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LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Mario Hezonja is the best wing prospect hands down. He is the better shooter , Ballhandler , scorer and and plays above the rim. He is better than Stanley Johnson and Winslow.
ImHeisenberg wrote:LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Mario Hezonja is the best wing prospect hands down. He is the better shooter , Ballhandler , scorer and and plays above the rim. He is better than Stanley Johnson and Winslow.
The problem I have with foreign players is that their level of competition is always questionable, and most don't or can't watch entire games. Every player has great highlight plays, even the guys, just look up Jimmer when he played for Baylor.
Ruzious wrote:ImHeisenberg wrote:LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Mario Hezonja is the best wing prospect hands down. He is the better shooter , Ballhandler , scorer and and plays above the rim. He is better than Stanley Johnson and Winslow.
The problem I have with foreign players is that their level of competition is always questionable, and most don't or can't watch entire games. Every player has great highlight plays, even the guys, just look up Jimmer when he played for Baylor.
Yeah, Jimmer Fredette of Glenns Falls... er France!
...who played on the BYU campus of Baylor... in the Euro League.
ImHeisenberg wrote:Ruzious wrote:ImHeisenberg wrote:
The problem I have with foreign players is that their level of competition is always questionable, and most don't or can't watch entire games. Every player has great highlight plays, even the guys, just look up Jimmer when he played for Baylor.
Yeah, Jimmer Fredette of Glenns Falls... er France!
...who played on the BYU campus of Baylor... in the Euro League.
I was making a point about the highlight plays.
Furthermore, Mario is averaging a whopping seven points a game. Looks like a real world-beater to me.
noobcake wrote:Big_C_KU wrote:noobcake wrote:
I don't because history has proven KU players to be overrated. Kentucky players have been firecrackers, even the lower ranked ones.
I don't care about potential until it is realized. Embiid had the highest potential. Until he shows that he can translate that skill into the NBA and stay healthy, potential means nothing. McLemore looked like freak Ray Allen in college, yet he is averaging 11 PPG in 33 minutes with 9.9 PER.
Morris twins are good. I might say even producing above their draft spot on average.
Wiggins hasn't shown ****. 11 PPG on 8.5 PER is now acceptable for a #1 pick who was being compared to TMac, Kobe, Jordan before the draft? Actually I'm wrong, the only thing Wiggins has shown is that he can shoot the 3 pointer. Still can't dribble, can't create, can't pass, can't finish.
I have been calling Wiggins' ceiling as Rudy Gay and have been blasted all year last year for it.
I'm sure you are very happy every time you look at box scores and see Wiggins had a bad game since you've been calling him not a very good prospect for a year now.
I'm not a PER guy for rookies. Some rookies are asked to do a lot of things they aren't very comfortable with or good at right now and it makes their PER looks worse than what it would be if they were asked to only do what other rookies only do. Wiggins is being asked to be a creator and the #1 defender right now for the Wolves with all their injuries. He's not a shot creator for himself or others. Wiggins PER wasn't great but it was better when he wasn't needing to be a ball handler and shot creator.
He does need to improve the areas you mentioned but already I've seen some improvement since last year (Can actually dribble with the left hand and is lower his dribble with his right) which is a good thing and I expect he'll make a big improvement to next year. What concerns me with Wiggins is his willingness to settle for the jumper when his shot isn't falling instead of forcing the issues even when he gets a defender off balance with a dribble or 2. Even in the NBA players have trouble staying in front with his quick first step but instead of really using it to get to the rim he stops and uses his step back which he usually gets off cleanly but his mechanics aren't there consistently with that shot although it looks much cleaner than last year at KU.
The mental part of the game is my biggest concern for him.
I prefer the DeRozan with better 3pt shooting and defense for Wiggins. I don't know if he'll be superstar or top 5 player like he was projected but I do think he'll be a star in this league.
PER is just about the single best statistics for future projection. Of course you can have players who played like crap their rookie season and became stars later on. That is the exception, not the norm. (I might argue that poster boy for this type of development, PG, was never a superstar, merely a really good all-star. Besides he reached 13 PER his rookie year)
Since 2000, every rookie with 20+ PER has become a superstar (well a lot of people will place Irving below Wall/Lillard regardless of his play). Pretty much everyone above 15+ have become at least an all-star or all-star level (there are a few exceptions like Thornton, Collision, Charlie V, Sessions, Reggie W)
Wiggins' PER has bounced between 8 and 10 this season so far. I don't think he want the company of these players Reggie Jackson, Dragic Green, Martin are pretty much the starter+ level players on a list of 159 such players since 2000.
If you go back to seasons before Hollinger created PER, you can see how good a single number is at predicting future production all the way back to the 50-60's.
princeofpalace wrote:I don't think you can go wrong with either Winslow/Johnson and I expect both to be drafted in the top half of the lottery but I give a slight edge to Winslow for right now.
Hezonja is a step down from Winslow/Johnson- the kid doesn't play with a whole lot of effort and isn't good defensively. I'm not sure what others are seeing in him.
MinneOOPalis wrote:Stanley Johnson is the pick if you need a wing. Looks to be a two way player and seems like a good teammate. Guys like him are huge for culture.
I think Mario Hezonja has the highest ceiling offensively though. Once he learns how to play lower to the ground he is gonna be special.
Fischella wrote:I think people are confusing Stanley Johnson with Winslow reading their descriptions.
Johnson is a hard worker on defense, but his offense is much more of a chucker/selfish player than Winslows is.
ImHeisenberg wrote:LeonJordanJr24 wrote:Mario Hezonja is the best wing prospect hands down. He is the better shooter , Ballhandler , scorer and and plays above the rim. He is better than Stanley Johnson and Winslow.
The problem I have with foreign players is that their level of competition is always questionable, and most don't or can't watch entire games. Every player has great highlight plays, even the guys, just look up Jimmer when he played for Baylor.
42uptop wrote:Fischella wrote:I think people are confusing Stanley Johnson with Winslow reading their descriptions.
Johnson is a hard worker on defense, but his offense is much more of a chucker/selfish player than Winslows is.
That's because Winslow is far less talented than Johnson. The dude can barely handle the ball. Johnson is the better prospect because he can create offense with consistency. Winslow, if everything goes well, will be a 3 and D role player in the NBA.
42uptop wrote:Fischella wrote:I think people are confusing Stanley Johnson with Winslow reading their descriptions.
Johnson is a hard worker on defense, but his offense is much more of a chucker/selfish player than Winslows is.
That's because Winslow is far less talented than Johnson. The dude can barely handle the ball. Johnson is the better prospect because he can create offense with consistency. Winslow, if everything goes well, will be a 3 and D role player in the NBA.
Fischella wrote:How so? Winslow is a little bit smaller, but he is a better athlete, he has better intangibles both on d and o, he is a better passer and defender, he is a better shooter overall, Johnson shot is flat, his ballhandling is good too.
Stan is more aggressive with the ball, but thats not always good if you are not a difference maker.
I think Johnson will be good, but he has tunnel vision sometimes, he needs to trimmdown a bit and improve his lateral quickness to defend guards and be more determinant in that are, and his shoot needs a ton of work.
Winslow is a more complete player and being a better athlete overall gives him the edge, they are the same age basically.
ManualRam wrote:all you did there was just repeat misconceptions.
42uptop wrote:ManualRam wrote:all you did there was just repeat misconceptions.
Don't you have McDermott highlights to fawn over?
