D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard.

[melomax]

Russell has better vision than Manu? lol

I dare you to find me video of Russell missing the shooting pocket with one of his passes in college in either fast break or secondary transition.

[melomax]

I think a more nuanced understanding of the game is required for this discussion. Calling someone "a PG" or "not a PG" completely disregards the way the NBA is moving. Positions are becoming much more fluid.

That said, Russell has above average vision and instincts on the court so you want the ball to find its way into his hands, but you also don't want him to be the guy bringing the ball up the court and initiating standard sets and chasing the opposing PG all around the court. When you have someone with Russell's abilities, you want a role player to handle those more basic PG tasks. Plus, role playing PGs these days seem to have a higher skill-level than role playing SGs.

For that reason I think it makes more sense to think of Russell as a SG, but often you are going to send the other guard off ball while Russell breaks down the defense so you need someone with the right complementary skill-set.

You're being overly dramatic with the "no position" dogma that has spread like wildfire.


Someone has to bring the ball up in half court and initiate offense.
Someone has to run the PNR in half court
Someone has to play pistol from the top of the key
Someone has to be in ISO in half court

In half court you're chances at finding a quick mismatch, quick cut, or backdoor fade because the defense is set.

The guy who does the above mentioned thing is your point guard.

When you're in secondary transition of course all bets are off, you're just trying to push the ball up as quickly as possible. But in half court the point guard handles the ball the vast majority of the time.

[reanimator]

Russell has better vision than Manu? lol

I dare you to find me video of Russell missing the shooting pocket with one of his passes in college in either fast break or secondary transition.

Those same passes Dlo made in college, Manu made in the NBA.

[dham1974]

I think a more nuanced understanding of the game is required for this discussion. Calling someone "a PG" or "not a PG" completely disregards the way the NBA is moving. Positions are becoming much more fluid.

That said, Russell has above average vision and instincts on the court so you want the ball to find its way into his hands, but you also don't want him to be the guy bringing the ball up the court and initiating standard sets and chasing the opposing PG all around the court. When you have someone with Russell's abilities, you want a role player to handle those more basic PG tasks. Plus, role playing PGs these days seem to have a higher skill-level than role playing SGs.

For that reason I think it makes more sense to think of Russell as a SG, but often you are going to send the other guard off ball while Russell breaks down the defense so you need someone with the right complementary skill-set.

Lol you realize this team has Clarkson as well right? SG purpose is to shoot point guard purpose is to distribute. So once again he's the pg. As far as defending pg goes he's been just fine so far. Spare me the "he can't bring the ball up the court, drive, dish or dunk " nonsense. https://youtu.be/zrylZlqtvXw?t=11


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[DeBlazerRiddem]

You're being overly dramatic with the "no position" dogma that has spread like wildfire.


Someone has to bring the ball up in half court and initiate offense.
Someone has to run the PNR in half court
Someone has to play pistol from the top of the key
Someone has to be in ISO in half court

In half court you're chances at finding a quick mismatch, quick cut, or backdoor fade because the defense is set.

The guy who does the above mentioned thing is your point guard.

When you're in secondary transition of course all bets are off, you're just trying to push the ball up as quickly as possible. But in half court the point guard handles the ball the vast majority of the time.

Between you two, I fear I must have been way misunderstood. "Dramatic" .. "nonsense".. Geez guys, all I said was that top tier players will often assume different roles throughout the game, even on a possession to possession basis. Focusing on the nomenclature above the skillset is misleading, especially as positional versatility becomes a greater and greater focus.

Russell absolutely can do those things, my point was do you really WANT him do those things all the time, or does it make sense to farm out some of those more routine duties to a role-player? For example, why have Russell bring the ball up the court every time instead of letting a lesser player do that so you can run Russell off a screen and get him the ball in a more advantageous position?

Lol you realize this team has Clarkson as well right? SG purpose is to shoot point guard purpose is to distribute. So once again he's the pg. As far as defending pg goes he's been just fine so far. Spare me the "he can't bring the ball up the court, drive, dish or dunk " nonsense. https://youtu.be/zrylZlqtvXw?t=11

In no way did I say "he can't bring the ball up the court, drive, dish or dunk"... That is just an absurd rendition of my post.

[dham1974]

You're being overly dramatic with the "no position" dogma that has spread like wildfire.


Someone has to bring the ball up in half court and initiate offense.
Someone has to run the PNR in half court
Someone has to play pistol from the top of the key
Someone has to be in ISO in half court

In half court you're chances at finding a quick mismatch, quick cut, or backdoor fade because the defense is set.

The guy who does the above mentioned thing is your point guard.

When you're in secondary transition of course all bets are off, you're just trying to push the ball up as quickly as possible. But in half court the point guard handles the ball the vast majority of the time.

Between you two, I fear I must have been way misunderstood. "Dramatic" .. "nonsense".. Geez guys, all I said was that top tier players will often assume different roles throughout the game, even on a possession to possession basis. Focusing on the nomenclature above the skillset is misleading, especially as positional versatility becomes a greater and greater focus.

Russell absolutely can do those things, my point was do you really WANT him do those things all the time, or does it make sense to farm out some of those more routine duties to a role-player? For example, why have Russell bring the ball up the court every time instead of letting a lesser player do that so you can run Russell off a screen and get him the ball in a more advantageous position?

Lol you realize this team has Clarkson as well right? SG purpose is to shoot point guard purpose is to distribute. So once again he's the pg. As far as defending pg goes he's been just fine so far. Spare me the "he can't bring the ball up the court, drive, dish or dunk " nonsense. https://youtu.be/zrylZlqtvXw?t=11

In no way did I say "he can't bring the ball up the court, drive, dish or dunk"... That is just an absurd rendition of my post.

You didn't straight up say it but you're post seems to hint at him doing it would be a bad idea and therefore he's a sg. As I said before pg are supposed to assist Sg are supposed to shoot. He can do both but as you seen from summer league he would like to set his teammates up first. That makes him pg in the mold of a Nash or CP3. He's capable of scoring but he's looking for his teammates. Guys like Harden are looking for their pts and if you double he's gonna punish you by getting the assist. That makes him a SG

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[SparksFly87]

I think Russell's full potential will be as a playmaking shooting guard. His weakness driving to rim , getting ball over half court and quickness. He is a excellent coming off screens and pulling up off the dribble. I think trying to force him to be a point guard is just plain counter productive.

[dham1974]

I think Russell's full potential will be as a playmaking shooting guard. His weakness driving to rim , getting ball over half court and quickness. He is a excellent coming off screens and pulling up off the dribble. I think trying to force him to be a point guard is just plain counter productive.

driving isn't a weakness he doesn't look to do it often. In summer league I think he avg about 3-4 per game. He can do it. Russell was more concerned with running the offense. Running off a screen isn't something that's just for sg. Sf pg etc.. Have done it. Also wtf is a playmaking shooting guard? Shouldn't that be called a point guard like a playmaking forward would be called point forward? *shrugs* whatever call it what yall want I'll call it pg and that's most likely the position he'll play


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[Illmatic12]

I disagree his vision is already better than theirs. I think the vision and passing makes him a PG.

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.

I disagree because there's guys like Jennings who can break defenses down and he's not what I consider an elite pg. What makes someone elite at pg is their effectiveness. Are you telling me if he avg 10apg and it leads to wins you wouldn't consider that elite?

Jennings can't break down defenses, lol. Theoretically he has the ability to, but he doesn't which is why he isn't a good player. Jennings settles for far too many long pullup jumpers. He's an awful finisher and is too conditioned to avoid the paint like a plague



A better example would be someone like Reggie Jackson, who actually has shown ability to break defenses down with his size/quickness/ballhandling and make plays in PnR situations. Let's say Jackson averages 10apg next season and leads the Pistons to a solid playoff position, yes I'd consider him potentially elite.

[HeartBreakKid]

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.

I disagree because there's guys like Jennings who can break defenses down and he's not what I consider an elite pg. What makes someone elite at pg is their effectiveness. Are you telling me if he avg 10apg and it leads to wins you wouldn't consider that elite?

Jennings can't break down defenses, lol. Theoretically he has the ability to, but he doesn't which is why he isn't a good player. Jennings settles for far too many long pullup jumpers. He's an awful finisher and is too conditioned to avoid the paint like a plague



A better example would be someone like Reggie Jackson, who actually has shown ability to break defenses down with his size/quickness/ballhandling and make plays in PnR situations. Let's say Jackson averages 10apg next season and leads the Pistons to a solid playoff position, yes I'd consider him potentially elite.

That gif is the funniest basketball gif I've seen in a long time.

[dham1974]

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.

I disagree because there's guys like Jennings who can break defenses down and he's not what I consider an elite pg. What makes someone elite at pg is their effectiveness. Are you telling me if he avg 10apg and it leads to wins you wouldn't consider that elite?

Jennings can't break down defenses, lol. Theoretically he has the ability to, but he doesn't which is why he isn't a good player. Jennings settles for far too many long pullup jumpers. He's an awful finisher and is too conditioned to avoid the paint like a plague



A better example would be someone like Reggie Jackson, who actually has shown ability to break defenses down with his size/quickness/ballhandling and make plays in PnR situations. Let's say Jackson averages 10apg next season and leads the Pistons to a solid playoff position, yes I'd consider him potentially elite.

That gif is just its just smh lol

[EricAnderson]

I like Dangelo but I think if Mudiay played Cbb last year hed be picked ahead of him..

His upside is bigger and I think he's gonna be a better player

Aside from his size and athletic ability his vision is crazy..

[doordoor123]

I think a more nuanced understanding of the game is required for this discussion. Calling someone "a PG" or "not a PG" completely disregards the way the NBA is moving. Positions are becoming much more fluid.

That said, Russell has above average vision and instincts on the court so you want the ball to find its way into his hands, but you also don't want him to be the guy bringing the ball up the court and initiating standard sets and chasing the opposing PG all around the court. When you have someone with Russell's abilities, you want a role player to handle those more basic PG tasks. Plus, role playing PGs these days seem to have a higher skill-level than role playing SGs.

For that reason I think it makes more sense to think of Russell as a SG, but often you are going to send the other guard off ball while Russell breaks down the defense so you need someone with the right complementary skill-set.

You're being overly dramatic with the "no position" dogma that has spread like wildfire.


Someone has to bring the ball up in half court and initiate offense.
Someone has to run the PNR in half court
Someone has to play pistol from the top of the key
Someone has to be in ISO in half court

In half court you're chances at finding a quick mismatch, quick cut, or backdoor fade because the defense is set.

The guy who does the above mentioned thing is your point guard.

When you're in secondary transition of course all bets are off, you're just trying to push the ball up as quickly as possible. But in half court the point guard handles the ball the vast majority of the time.

Players with no positions are usually positions 2-4. Twos often can only score, but not consistently enough while also not being able to defend. If they're undersized, can't defend, can't score enough and can't play point guard, they're likely out of the league. Another is a ball-handler that can get to the basket, but nothing else. Or a 3/4 that isn't quick enough to defend a three and not strong enough to defend four, but the nail in the coffin is if they also can't contribute offensively (Anthony Bennett). If Bennett scored 14 points a game off the bench, I guarantee he wouldn't be out of the league. Scoring also has the least amount of sustainability because it changes all the time. Never draft based on shooting numbers and I personally wouldn't draft a shooter till the end of the first round because if we're looking for a long-term player, we want a player that can do other things. The one case scoring can be long-term is in the post and is dependent on how good a player is at tricking defenders in the post. Still, it's not as sustainable as other skills and you still want scoring, you just don't want no scoring from a player. I think most guys in the NBA can score though.

[dham1974]

I like Dangelo but I think if Mudiay played Cbb last year hed be picked ahead of him..

His upside is bigger and I think he's gonna be a better player

Aside from his size and athletic ability his vision is crazy..

Why do you think Mudiay has a higher upside or would be better?


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[EricAnderson]

I like Dangelo but I think if Mudiay played Cbb last year hed be picked ahead of him..

His upside is bigger and I think he's gonna be a better player

Aside from his size and athletic ability his vision is crazy..

Why do you think Mudiay has a higher upside or would be better?


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The only clear advantage Russel has over Mudiay is shooting

[dham1974]

I like Dangelo but I think if Mudiay played Cbb last year hed be picked ahead of him..

His upside is bigger and I think he's gonna be a better player

Aside from his size and athletic ability his vision is crazy..

Why do you think Mudiay has a higher upside or would be better?


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The only clear advantage Russel has over Mudiay is shooting

Russell is still the better playmaker. And if summer league is an indication of their rebounding he's better at that as well.


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[Up-And-Coming]

If we are only comparing D'Angelo and Emmanuel's Summer League performances I think Emmanuel gets a pretty big edge. However, despite D'Angelo's horrendous shooting display and turnover prowess, I was impressed with 2 things:

1. He rebounded the ball well (especially for a PG/SG) and..
2. His defense was solid (not as bad as I thought he would be)

[EricAnderson]

Why do you think Mudiay has a higher upside or would be better?


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The only clear advantage Russel has over Mudiay is shooting

Russell is still the better playmaker. And if summer league is an indication of their rebounding he's better at that as well.


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I don't think Russels a better playmaker at all..

[dham1974]

If we are only comparing D'Angelo and Emmanuel's Summer League performances I think Emmanuel gets a pretty big edge. However, despite D'Angelo's horrendous shooting display and turnover prowess, I was impressed with 2 things:

1. He rebounded the ball well (especially for a PG/SG) and..
2. His defense was solid (not as bad as I thought he would be)

Whats this huge edge you speak of?
Russell

11.8 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 3.2 APG, 5.2 TO, 37.7% FG 68.8% FT

Mudiay

12.0 PPG, 3.5 RPG, 5.8 APG, 5.0 TO, 38.5% FG, 50.0% FT

Mudiay was thought of as having a great summer league so if this is his Good and this is Russell's Bad then give me Russell every time because when he's on it aint even close.

[Illmatic12]

The only clear advantage Russel has over Mudiay is shooting

Russell is still the better playmaker. And if summer league is an indication of their rebounding he's better at that as well.


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I don't think Russels a better playmaker at all..

Mudiay will create more assists and scoring opportunities than Russell, by nature of his playing style.

Even just leaving half court basketball aside (because both of these guys will probably suck in the half court initially), Mudiay will create a LOT more than Russell in transition, even as a rookie he can set the tone/pace for his team.