D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard.

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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#41 » by NewWolvesOrder » Tue Jun 2, 2015 2:14 pm

But Stauskas also seems to have a good handle and a good court vision passing skills.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#42 » by BoutPractice » Tue Jun 2, 2015 2:45 pm

'Not as athletic as Harden' isn't the problem. Harden never was considered athletic in college. Harden's secret weapon is actually that he is large (I'll even say fat, and dare to advance that's the key ingredient in the mix) yet quick and slippery.

Curry's secret weapon is that he can somehow make a contested three after dribble as easily as Kobe can make a contested two after dribble. Not just a secret weapon - that's almost game changing stuff, like the first guy who could hit a pullup jumper.

Ultimately, what will determine how good D'Angelo Russell can become is whether he can develop that secret weapon, that all important 'comparative advantage'. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass - but does he have anything as good as Harden's drunken hobo routine or Curry's long range ballet dancing in his arsenal?
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#43 » by LeonJordanJr24 » Tue Jun 2, 2015 3:00 pm

BoutPractice wrote:'Not as athletic as Harden' isn't the problem. Harden never was considered athletic in college. Harden's secret weapon is actually that he is large (I'll even say fat, and dare to advance that's the key ingredient in the mix) yet quick and slippery.

Curry's secret weapon is that he can somehow make a contested three after dribble as easily as Kobe can make a contested two after dribble. Not just a secret weapon - that's almost game changing stuff, like the first guy who could hit a pullup jumper.

Ultimately, what will determine how good D'Angelo Russell can become is whether he can develop that secret weapon, that all important 'comparative advantage'. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass - but does he have anything as good as Harden's drunken hobo routine or Curry's long range ballet dancing in his arsenal?


His weapon is the pull up of the dribble and pull up off screens . I see the pull up J developing into a Reggie Miller level in his prime.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#44 » by E-Balla » Tue Jun 2, 2015 3:30 pm

Russell has a 30.5 inch standing vertical and a 39 inch vertical. With his 6-10 wingspan and 8-6 standing reach that's elite type vertical talent to go with his average speed. I feel like he's really improved his athleticism from what we saw at OS. I mean Zach LaVine has a 41.5 inch vertical and a 8-4 standing reach. You telling me Russ can get up like that now?
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#45 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jun 2, 2015 3:53 pm

NewWolvesOrder wrote:So what separates Russell from Nik Stauskas? They have similar skill sets, both are high IQ guys, athletically not much of a difference, Russell looks to have much longer wingspan I suppose. But I didn't watch both of them outside of highlight clips.


The biggest difference is the numbers back up Russell's case a lot more. 26.8 PER as a freshman vs 22.9 as a sophomore Stauskas. If Russell had stayed as a sophomore the gap would've been bigger. Stauskas for example was 17.9 PER as a freshman. Analytics guys rate Russell 1st or 2nd while Stauskas was one of the players they were most bearish on compared to conventional wisdom. This is because Russell filled the stat sheet more with stats like rebounding, steals and assists and did it younger which is key to analytics. Stauskas poor numbers in defensive stats made him a worrying case. While Stauskas was good assists for a SG, Russell was at a different level.

I am one of the biggest fans of Stauskas skillset in a vacuum. I feel as a shooter his numbers coming out of college suggested a different level than D'Angelo's and his ball handling skill is very underrated. I rated him as the 2nd best prospect behind Embiid last year because I believed in his ability to be a good slasher in the NBA, but if he fails, or just turns into a decent role player who's worth more like the 11th pick than 2nd, the lesson I will take from it is to trust the numbers more when they suggest a player may not reach the max ability his skillset could have. D'Angelo's numbers for a freshman and analytics support, along with conventional scouts thinking he is an all star prospect, suggest that if he has the skillset to be a star he's going to be one. The biggest argument against him is that he would be good not great at everything. The ability to drive but not dynamic athleticism. The ability to shoot but at a good not great level (75.6% FT suggests non elite stroke). Can a player still be a star if he's 6/10 or 7/10 level in those areas? If he's one of the smartest players in the league and possibly if he plays PG where he would be big, and is a great passer, I would still say yes, because that sounds like Deron Williams
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#46 » by reanimator » Tue Jun 2, 2015 4:23 pm

E-Balla wrote:Russell has a 30.5 inch standing vertical and a 39 inch vertical.


"according to Chad Ford"
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#47 » by doordoor123 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:46 pm

Can someone please sell me on D'Angelo again or can you defend his performance thus far? I was low on him until the Lakers picked him and somehow talked myself into thinking he could be special, but now I'm not seeing any of it. If he can't pass, can't defend and can't get in the lane he shouldn't be in the league for very long. He needs A LOT of work going right (because he literally can't shoot going right), he needs to work on shot (because it's inconsistent) and needs to work on his handling because he can't seem to get himself any looks by creating for himself. He needs work all around.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#48 » by Vincent_Askew » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:58 pm

E-Balla wrote:Russell has a 30.5 inch standing vertical and a 39 inch vertical.


There is now way in the hot flaming furnaces of hell that can be even remotely close to true. This guy cannot jump.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#49 » by Vincent_Askew » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:01 pm

doordoor123 wrote:Can someone please sell me on D'Angelo again or can you defend his performance thus far? I was low on him until the Lakers picked him and somehow talked myself into thinking he could be special, but now I'm not seeing any of it. If he can't pass, can't defend and can't get in the lane he shouldn't be in the league for very long. He needs A LOT of work going right (because he literally can't shoot going right), he needs to work on shot (because it's inconsistent) and needs to work on his handling because he can't seem to get himself any looks by creating for himself. He needs work all around.


We're only few games into summer league in his rookie year so we can't just write him off (I believe D.Rose for example had a really bad summer league when he came into the league).

BUT, I will say this: watching Russell against my Knicks yesterday, if I was a Laker fan I would have some alarms going off in my head after seeing how bad russell looked and how good Porzingis looked (I'm not talking about their stat lines, just little things that tip you off on what they can eventually become).

I think there's a legit chance Porzingis will be a far superior NBA player in a few years than Russell. As well as Okafor.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#50 » by Upperclass » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:31 am

Russell is special. Anyone who can't see that is blind. But he isnt a PG. As mentioned, he is a two in the Kobe, Harden, Ginobili etc role.. that can run the offense and initiate.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#51 » by dham1974 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 5:21 am

Upperclass wrote:Russell is special. Anyone who can't see that is blind. But he isnt a PG. As mentioned, he is a two in the Kobe, Harden, Ginobili etc role.. that can run the offense and initiate.


I disagree his vision is already better than theirs. I think the vision and passing makes him a PG.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#52 » by Illmatic12 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:21 pm

dham1974 wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Russell is special. Anyone who can't see that is blind. But he isnt a PG. As mentioned, he is a two in the Kobe, Harden, Ginobili etc role.. that can run the offense and initiate.


I disagree his vision is already better than theirs. I think the vision and passing makes him a PG.

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#53 » by dham1974 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:44 pm

Illmatic12 wrote:
dham1974 wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Russell is special. Anyone who can't see that is blind. But he isnt a PG. As mentioned, he is a two in the Kobe, Harden, Ginobili etc role.. that can run the offense and initiate.


I disagree his vision is already better than theirs. I think the vision and passing makes him a PG.

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.


I disagree because there's guys like Jennings who can break defenses down and he's not what I consider an elite pg. What makes someone elite at pg is their effectiveness. Are you telling me if he avg 10apg and it leads to wins you wouldn't consider that elite?
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#54 » by Westbreezy » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:31 am

Illmatic12 wrote:
dham1974 wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Russell is special. Anyone who can't see that is blind. But he isnt a PG. As mentioned, he is a two in the Kobe, Harden, Ginobili etc role.. that can run the offense and initiate.


I disagree his vision is already better than theirs. I think the vision and passing makes him a PG.

You can't just get by with vision and passing to be a point guard.. Boris Diaw has vision and passing.

To be a top point guard you need to be an elite ballhandler, with above average-elite quickness. Top point guards possess the ability to break down the defense at the point of attack, to create opportunities for others.

Russell can pass certainly. But atm, he doesn't break down defenses well enough to justify letting him pound the ball all game as a sole primary ballhandler.


Thats a good point... I'm not sure letting Russell take care of those kinds of PG duties will maximize his potential. If you let him waste energy by bringing the ball up the court on every possession, by defending quick PGs, and by trying to break down defenses at the beginning of the shot clock.

It's the same reason (IMO) why guys like Harden, Kobe, Wade, and Ginobli amongst others didn't play PG exclusively even though all of those guys had great vision/passing and had the ability to handle the ball well enough to play PG.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#55 » by melomax » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:45 am

BoutPractice wrote:'Not as athletic as Harden' isn't the problem. Harden never was considered athletic in college. Harden's secret weapon is actually that he is large (I'll even say fat, and dare to advance that's the key ingredient in the mix) yet quick and slippery.

Curry's secret weapon is that he can somehow make a contested three after dribble as easily as Kobe can make a contested two after dribble. Not just a secret weapon - that's almost game changing stuff, like the first guy who could hit a pullup jumper.

Ultimately, what will determine how good D'Angelo Russell can become is whether he can develop that secret weapon, that all important 'comparative advantage'. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass - but does he have anything as good as Harden's drunken hobo routine or Curry's long range ballet dancing in his arsenal?



i think you absolutely nailed it. Also count me in the "Russell is not a PG camp"


Harden has size, but most of all he has that sudden quick 1 step burst to get even or by the defender. His size and strength take care of the rest all the way to the rim.

Curry is just a 1 in a lifetime shooter. He's slightly above average height at his position, and his ability to threaten the dribble drive just enough airspace to get his shot off. With Curry, it isnt just his shooting, he has the ability to defeat you just with his dribble to create the airspace to get his shot off.

And that's the dilemma with Russell. He doesnt have the burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket, nor does he have the dribble to get people to lay off his shooting.

That's why i dont think he's a PG
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#56 » by dham1974 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:47 am

melomax wrote:
BoutPractice wrote:'Not as athletic as Harden' isn't the problem. Harden never was considered athletic in college. Harden's secret weapon is actually that he is large (I'll even say fat, and dare to advance that's the key ingredient in the mix) yet quick and slippery.

Curry's secret weapon is that he can somehow make a contested three after dribble as easily as Kobe can make a contested two after dribble. Not just a secret weapon - that's almost game changing stuff, like the first guy who could hit a pullup jumper.

Ultimately, what will determine how good D'Angelo Russell can become is whether he can develop that secret weapon, that all important 'comparative advantage'. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass - but does he have anything as good as Harden's drunken hobo routine or Curry's long range ballet dancing in his arsenal?



i think you absolutely nailed it. Also count me in the "Russell is not a PG camp"


Harden has size, but most of all he has that sudden quick 1 step burst to get even or by the defender. His size and strength take care of the rest all the way to the rim.

Curry is just a 1 in a lifetime shooter. He's slightly above average height at his position, and his ability to threaten the dribble drive just enough airspace to get his shot off. With Curry, it isnt just his shooting, he has the ability to defeat you just with his dribble to create the airspace to get his shot off.

And that's the dilemma with Russell. He doesnt have the burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket, nor does he have the dribble to get people to lay off his shooting.

That's why i dont think he's a PG


lol so passing ability doesn't make you a pg but the ability to "burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket," does lol Sorry disagree
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#57 » by EMG518 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:14 pm

dham1974 wrote:
melomax wrote:
BoutPractice wrote:'Not as athletic as Harden' isn't the problem. Harden never was considered athletic in college. Harden's secret weapon is actually that he is large (I'll even say fat, and dare to advance that's the key ingredient in the mix) yet quick and slippery.

Curry's secret weapon is that he can somehow make a contested three after dribble as easily as Kobe can make a contested two after dribble. Not just a secret weapon - that's almost game changing stuff, like the first guy who could hit a pullup jumper.

Ultimately, what will determine how good D'Angelo Russell can become is whether he can develop that secret weapon, that all important 'comparative advantage'. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can pass - but does he have anything as good as Harden's drunken hobo routine or Curry's long range ballet dancing in his arsenal?



i think you absolutely nailed it. Also count me in the "Russell is not a PG camp"


Harden has size, but most of all he has that sudden quick 1 step burst to get even or by the defender. His size and strength take care of the rest all the way to the rim.

Curry is just a 1 in a lifetime shooter. He's slightly above average height at his position, and his ability to threaten the dribble drive just enough airspace to get his shot off. With Curry, it isnt just his shooting, he has the ability to defeat you just with his dribble to create the airspace to get his shot off.

And that's the dilemma with Russell. He doesnt have the burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket, nor does he have the dribble to get people to lay off his shooting.

That's why i dont think he's a PG


lol so passing ability doesn't make you a pg but the ability to "burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket," does lol Sorry disagree


I think what he is suggesting is he may be a great passer, but he doesnt have the ability to utilize his passing abilities to its fullest due to his physical limitations. So he has the skills and the mind to be a point but his physical limitations wont allow him to be able to get to the spots he needs to in order to run the offense and create for his team.
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D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#58 » by dham1974 » Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:01 pm

EMG518 wrote:
dham1974 wrote:
melomax wrote:

i think you absolutely nailed it. Also count me in the "Russell is not a PG camp"


Harden has size, but most of all he has that sudden quick 1 step burst to get even or by the defender. His size and strength take care of the rest all the way to the rim.

Curry is just a 1 in a lifetime shooter. He's slightly above average height at his position, and his ability to threaten the dribble drive just enough airspace to get his shot off. With Curry, it isnt just his shooting, he has the ability to defeat you just with his dribble to create the airspace to get his shot off.

And that's the dilemma with Russell. He doesnt have the burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket, nor does he have the dribble to get people to lay off his shooting.

That's why i dont think he's a PG


lol so passing ability doesn't make you a pg but the ability to "burst or strength to bulldoze his way to the basket," does lol Sorry disagree


I think what he is suggesting is he may be a great passer, but he doesnt have the ability to utilize his passing abilities to its fullest due to his physical limitations. So he has the skills and the mind to be a point but his physical limitations wont allow him to be able to get to the spots he needs to in order to run the offense and create for his team.


That's still not a reason to say he's not a pg. Andre miller wasn't the fastest guy but he's a pg. You don't have beat your man off the dribble to be a pg. Him being slow is exaggerated as well. He wasn't aggressive or playing full speed. He hasn't had to do that in college to be effective. He's learning that the NBA is a faster game. His style isn't dribble dribble drive. His style is seeing cutting players and getting the ball to them. All of this he's not a pg because he doesn't constantly drive or play like Kyrie etc... Is nonsense
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#59 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:35 pm

I think a more nuanced understanding of the game is required for this discussion. Calling someone "a PG" or "not a PG" completely disregards the way the NBA is moving. Positions are becoming much more fluid.

That said, Russell has above average vision and instincts on the court so you want the ball to find its way into his hands, but you also don't want him to be the guy bringing the ball up the court and initiating standard sets and chasing the opposing PG all around the court. When you have someone with Russell's abilities, you want a role player to handle those more basic PG tasks. Plus, role playing PGs these days seem to have a higher skill-level than role playing SGs.

For that reason I think it makes more sense to think of Russell as a SG, but often you are going to send the other guard off ball while Russell breaks down the defense so you need someone with the right complementary skill-set.
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Re: D'Angelo Russell will be a allstar level shooting guard. 

Post#60 » by reanimator » Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:43 pm

Russell has better vision than Manu? lol

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