Best player forthe Jazz at #12?

[Bernman]

What's the fascination with Payne anyways? He's a virtual Trey Burke 2.0.

Payne is 6'2/6'7.25. Burke is 6'1/6'5.5. So I think it falls apart a little already at the measurements. Then I'd say Payne has more shake to get into the lane, and a floater once he makes it there. Finishing at the basket is somewhat of a question, but not to the degree of Burke. Also, Payne has special timing on his passes.

But Exum should be considered the point guard going forward. Too good of a playmaker off the dribble for himself and teammates, not a good enough shooter. So I don't think Burke should be the pick for that reason.

[stitches]

What's the fascination with Payne anyways? He's a virtual Trey Burke 2.0.

Payne is 6'2/6'7.25. Burke is 6'1/6'5.5. So I think it falls apart a little already at the measurements. Then I'd say Payne has more shake to get into the lane, and a floater once he makes it there. Finishing at the basket is somewhat of a question, but not to the degree of Burke. Also, Payne has special timing on his passes.

But Exum should be considered the point guard going forward. Too good of a playmaker off the dribble for himself and teammates, not a good enough shooter. So I don't think Burke should be the pick for that reason.

from DX, combine measurements:

measurement- Burke-Payne
height ------6' 1.25" - 6'1.5''
wingspan---6' 5.5"-6' 7.25"
reach -------8' 1.5"-8' 1.5"
max vert ---36.5-35.5
sprint -------3.16-3.28
lane agility- 11.20-10.89

It's not a perfect comparison, but the point is short PGs like that need to be special in some way to overcome the physical limitations - either be special shooters, special feel for the game and distribution, etc. Just play the DX scouting videos of both... the strenghts and weaknesses pretty much match 1:1. The one thing is Payne has a better floater, which is one of the least effective shots in the game in general. If you rely on your floater to make your game, you are in trouble. Again, not a perfect comparison, but I think the similarities are much more striking than the small differences.

The bar to clear (Burke) is not high at all, so I'd expect him to be better, but how much better? If he manages to be a 36-38% 3p shooter he will be a NBA player for a long time because he has some ball skills and seems like a smart player, but I don't see him as a high level PG, I don't think he'd ever be above average PG in the league. My ceiling for him is low-level starter - good level backup.

[Bernman]

C'mon man, you look at players without shoes, and then add 1.25 inches. Burke was wearing bigger shoes. Anybody can wear bigger shoes. It's 1 inch on the shoeless height, 1.75 on the wingspan. That's a discernible difference. Payne is close to the standard, while Burke is on the small side. Payne is almost exactly the same size as the Atlanta pg's, Teague and Schroeder, for example. Actually a bit taller than Bledsoe. Just needs to get stronger.

You said even if he's a small guard he needs a special trait. I'd say his vision is pretty special. Shooting and handle are both solid too.

It's absurd to say his CEILING is a low-level starter/good backup. That's true for just about nobody in the 1st rd, let alone a projected lotto pick. Burke has jaded you and now you're making false equivalencies to him.

[stitches]

Both Teague and Shroeder have special speed, I don't see special speed with Payne. Bledsoe is a freak athlete and incredibly strong for a PG. In general I just don't see the special trait that will make him stand out in the league.

Of course I could be wrong and he might make my posts about him look ridiculous and funny in a couple of years, in which case I will happily eat crow... I'm a fan of players that have been overlooked and have managed to beat the odds and become special. I don't mind being wrong, anybody who has made enough predictions/assessments for the future of a prospect will sooner or later be wrong about one or two or many of them. That's just my opinion, take it for what it is.

[pelifan]

I think Lyles is perfect for the Jazz.

[Notanoob]

Delon Wright is the best fit. Dude has a complete game and the size and athleticism that's rare for senior prospects.

[thinktank]

I love Lyles for the Jazz, and I have a good feeling that he'll actually turn out to be BPA at #12.

Kaminsky would be next, but I think he'll be gone.

Jazz need a dynamic "big", that playmaking four. The offense is to staid for you guys right now.



I don't understand the Turner fit. Why is backup center such an urgent need?

Get the best player available.