U19 FIBA World Championship

[Greek]

fantastic game. dislike the strange ethnonational bent this thread took. what nationality are sofo and giannis if not greek? this isn't a bo mccalebb/becky hammon situation

Sofo is Cameronian and Giannis is Nigerian. You seem to confuse ethnic groups with having one's passport.

How the hell he only is Cameronian if his father is Greek? How Giannis is not Greek when he was born in Greece, went in Greek school, and grow up as a Greek?

That purity reminds me golden dawn, and its not a good thing.

[Von Bismarck]

True I forgot about Sipahi and Cedi (although one is half turkish and the other guy has been living in Turkey since he was 12 or so) but you can't be serious with the other guys. As I said, if these guys aren't turkish for you than there can't be an American national team because no one would be american by your logic.
They might be ethnically Bosniak but they were born in Turkey, their parents were born in Turkey and probably their grandparents too. And I can guarantee you that they consider themselves Turkish 100%

Are you serbianhoops by any chance? You argue just like that fascist idiot.

Nope, I am not, but I'm more interested in your bolded statement. I need to ask you, why do you lie since 2/3 of those mentioned weren't even born in Turkey nor are ethnically Turkish? You can check for yourself where they were born.

Yup, bring a 'nazi-fascist' straw man to the argument when you are out of options. Too bad for you, I'm not buying on that.

[Von Bismarck]

fantastic game. dislike the strange ethnonational bent this thread took. what nationality are sofo and giannis if not greek? this isn't a bo mccalebb/becky hammon situation

Sofo is Cameronian and Giannis is Nigerian. You seem to confuse ethnic groups with having one's passport.

How the hell he only is Cameronian if his father is Greek? How Giannis is not Greek when he was born in Greece, went in Greek school, and grow up as a Greek?

That purity reminds me golden dawn, and its not a good thing.

No need for lies -> http://idata.over-blog.com/4/92/49/22/Euro-feminin-2013/giannis.jpg

[freestyler34]

If Sofo and Antetokounmpo aren't Greek in your opinion than none of the American players can be considered americans. These guys were born in Greece, grew up in Greece and speak perfect greek, they have every right to play for Greece.

Also Turkey has one naturalized Player (which I'm not a big fan of) and Ilyasova who was born in Usbekistan but grew up in Turkey. I don't know how that constitutes to half of the team.

I'm not getting into american ethnic group thing, but I'm familiar with European. I can easily tell that Lafayette in not Croatian, nor would he be even if he was born in Croatia.

You say one? Hm, I don't think so.

Preldzic - ethnic Bosniak, born in Bosnia
Kenan Sipahi - half Bosniak, half Kosovo Albanian, born in today's Kosovo
Cedi Osman - half Bosniak, half Turkish, born in FYROM
Semih Erden - Montenegrin Bosniak, born in Montenegro
Hidayet Turkoglu - ethnic Sandzaklija (close to Bosniak) from Sandzak region of Serbia
Omer Asik - ethnic Bosniak
Mehmed Okur - ethnic Bosniak
Sinan Guler - ethnic Bosniak

Did you really think we didn't know what you are doing? Sweet

I'm not a big fan of the rule but if Croatia naturalizes a good PG they will be the dominant european force for years to come. Amazing generation that is just lacking a great PG.

I hate that rule and I will never approve naturalization. I'm here with Milos Teodosic, who was recently asked about possible naturalization for male Serbian team and he responded that he would not play for the NT anymore if that happens. That's just one of the reasons I have a high respect for Teodosic even though he is our nemesis.

Except Sipahi and Preldzic(which is not in NT team this year) All of them born in Turkey even their parents born in Turkey, Cedi Osman's father is Turkish,Sipahi came to Turkey when he was 11 years old and learned Basketball in Turkey.

What about Oliver Lafeyette ?

[Von Bismarck]

Except Sipahi and Preldzic(which is not in NT team this year) All of them born in Turkey even their parents born in Turkey, Cedi Osman's father is Turkish,Sipahi came to Turkey when he was 11 years old and learned Basketball in Turkey.

What about Oliver Lafeyette ?

Calm down, Balkans will share their basketball talent with you in the future I'm sure, no need to panic

What about Lafayette? He's naturalized and I'm against it, 90% of Croatian basketball fans are against naturalization. Same goes for Serbia and many other countries.

I'm just waiting for that 1 naturalized player to change to limitless like in handball to kill all my love for my national team. Inbefore some new ''basketball Qatar'' buys a whole team of naturalized players

[JustMagic]

Actually he was pretty good with our team, and wasnt black hole. Also i havent seen that t rex arms. He did an amazing job on D.

How come Greece has a young American playing for you guys? Will it be more and more in the future?

Sofo

Giannis

Dorsey

2 more and will be 5 black ppl representing Greece

well, there are Giannis' 2 younger brothers. They can be the two you're missing, considering the older brother isn't good enough.

[JustMagic]

Team Croatia is showing a huge heart, after they've lost Mazalin, Bender and Žižić (all of them TOP 5 in in Europe in their generation on a certain position, Bender being one of the biggest Euro talents to come in God knows how many years)

Why bring this up? Our real U19 team could include Okafor, Russell, Jones, Johnson, Booker, Winslow, Turner, Gordon, Vonleh, Brown, Briscoe, Stone, Ellenson, Ingram, Wood, Looney, Ulis .

As was mentioned before me, some of them were born in 1995 and could not have played in this tournament (Gordon, Okafor, Vonleh and maybe more).

[reanimator]

Team Croatia is showing a huge heart, after they've lost Mazalin, Bender and Žižić (all of them TOP 5 in in Europe in their generation on a certain position, Bender being one of the biggest Euro talents to come in God knows how many years)

Why bring this up? Our real U19 team could include Okafor, Russell, Jones, Johnson, Booker, Winslow, Turner, Gordon, Vonleh, Brown, Briscoe, Stone, Ellenson, Ingram, Wood, Looney, Ulis .

As was mentioned before me, some of them were born in 1995 and could not have played in this tournament (Gordon, Okafor, Vonleh and maybe more).

The point still stands that every team is missing talent, and it should not be mentioned as the reason a team won or lost.

[Curtis Lemansky]

If Sofo and Antetokounmpo aren't Greek in your opinion than none of the American players can be considered americans. These guys were born in Greece, grew up in Greece and speak perfect greek, they have every right to play for Greece.

Also Turkey has one naturalized Player (which I'm not a big fan of) and Ilyasova who was born in Usbekistan but grew up in Turkey. I don't know how that constitutes to half of the team.

I'm not getting into american ethnic group thing, but I'm familiar with European. I can easily tell that Lafayette in not Croatian, nor would he be even if he was born in Croatia.

You say one? Hm, I don't think so.

Preldzic - ethnic Bosniak, born in Bosnia
Kenan Sipahi - half Bosniak, half Kosovo Albanian, born in today's Kosovo
Cedi Osman - half Bosniak, half Turkish, born in FYROM
Semih Erden - Montenegrin Bosniak, born in Montenegro
Hidayet Turkoglu - ethnic Sandzaklija (close to Bosniak) from Sandzak region of Serbia
Omer Asik - ethnic Bosniak
Mehmed Okur - ethnic Bosniak
Sinan Guler - ethnic Bosniak

Did you really think we didn't know what you are doing? Sweet

I'm not a big fan of the rule but if Croatia naturalizes a good PG they will be the dominant european force for years to come. Amazing generation that is just lacking a great PG.

I hate that rule and I will never approve naturalization. I'm here with Milos Teodosic, who was recently asked about possible naturalization for male Serbian team and he responded that he would not play for the NT anymore if that happens. That's just one of the reasons I have a high respect for Teodosic even though he is our nemesis.

Double post

[Curtis Lemansky]

If Sofo and Antetokounmpo aren't Greek in your opinion than none of the American players can be considered americans. These guys were born in Greece, grew up in Greece and speak perfect greek, they have every right to play for Greece.

Also Turkey has one naturalized Player (which I'm not a big fan of) and Ilyasova who was born in Usbekistan but grew up in Turkey. I don't know how that constitutes to half of the team.

I'm not getting into american ethnic group thing, but I'm familiar with European. I can easily tell that Lafayette in not Croatian, nor would he be even if he was born in Croatia.

You say one? Hm, I don't think so.

Preldzic - ethnic Bosniak, born in Bosnia
Kenan Sipahi - half Bosniak, half Kosovo Albanian, born in today's Kosovo
Cedi Osman - half Bosniak, half Turkish, born in FYROM
Semih Erden - Montenegrin Bosniak, born in Montenegro
Hidayet Turkoglu - ethnic Sandzaklija (close to Bosniak) from Sandzak region of Serbia
Omer Asik - ethnic Bosniak
Mehmed Okur - ethnic Bosniak
Sinan Guler - ethnic Bosniak

Did you really think we didn't know what you are doing? Sweet

I'm not a big fan of the rule but if Croatia naturalizes a good PG they will be the dominant european force for years to come. Amazing generation that is just lacking a great PG.

I hate that rule and I will never approve naturalization. I'm here with Milos Teodosic, who was recently asked about possible naturalization for male Serbian team and he responded that he would not play for the NT anymore if that happens. That's just one of the reasons I have a high respect for Teodosic even though he is our nemesis.

Uhmmm Sinan Guler's father was born in Turkey and was a legendary basketball player for the NT back in the 70's. I think you are confusing him with Orhan Guler in your haste to throw some baseless accusations.


In general I dont view naturalization as stealing talent if the player was born in that country or moved there at a very early age when he cannot be regarded as a prospect. I only consider naturalization as stealing talent when you bring on a player after he becomes a basketball prospect.

Sipahi and Cedi's families moved to Turkey when they were 11 and 12 years old. Hedo, Semih, Omer, Mehmed are all born and raised in Turkey. Calling these players naturalized is laughable.

The only one I'd count as stealing is Preldzic. He was already a highly regarded prospect and played for Slovenia's youth NT teams before he was brought in ("transferred") into Turkish NT.

[ReKon]

I don t know why this thread became an ethnicity topic but since noone posted it the best 5 of the tournament were announced:
MVP:Jalen Brunson
Starting5:Jalen Brunson(USA),Harry Giles(USA),Marko Arapovic(Croatia),Furkan Korkmaz(Turkey),Tyler Dorsey(Greece)

Players that caught my attention:
USA:Giles,Brunson

The only two players that looked like actual NBA prospects(Even though Giles had an attrocious final i mean 4/20).Jackson looked like he is all hype,Tatum went hot and cold and Ferguson looked like an Ethiopian marathon runner(no offence).And by the way i loled at the way the starting Center for the USA team was shooting free throws...i couldn t believe it

Croatia:Slavica
Damn that kid was awesome during the Final.He was athletically on par with the USA players and he went off.Haven t seen many games of him so i don t know but the one game i saw really impressed me

Turkey:Korkmaz
Kid is supposed to be one of the best European talents right now and rightfully so.Don t know if he is athletic enough to make it to the NBA but he seems like he fits the mold for a point forward

Greece:Dorsey,Charalampopoulos
Watched the Greece vs USA game and these two were impressive.Dorsey was a highly touted highschool prospect this year(#18 in the nation according to rivals.com,#28 according to cbs and #38 according to espn lol he s all over the place) and i was surprised he played for Greece(apparently his mother is Greek i guess?).Dude pulled a move in the end of the first half against USA and i m like holy crap.

Charalampopoulos while impressive doesn t seem like NBA material.He looks like the kind of guy who ll come to the NBA when he s like 25-26 and he won t be able to translate because he s not as gifted athletically.Which is a shame because fundamentally he is pretty good

[Von Bismarck]

Uhmmm Sinan Guler's father was born in Turkey and was a legendary basketball player for the NT back in the 70's.


In general I dont view naturalization as stealing talent if the player was born in that country or moved there at a very early age when he cannot be regarded as a prospect. I only consider naturalization as stealing talent when you bring on a player after he becomes a basketball prospect.

Sipahi and Cedi's families moved to Turkey when they were 11 and 12 years old. Hedo, Semih, Omer, Mehmed are all born and raised in Turkey. The only one I'd count as stealing is Preldzic. He was already a highly regarded prospect and played for Slovenia's youth NT teams before he was brought in ("transferred") into Turkish NT.

I never said that Sinan wasn't born in Turkey though

Anyways, naturalization is just the start. Just like what happened in handball where you can buy the whole goddamn team like Qatar did, soon to be in soccer as well. It is destroying this sport and it's just matter of time when there will be no 1 naturalized per team and then it will all go downhill.

I view national team as national - ethnic. I think everyone would have agreed with me 50 years ago. But nowadays, it seems to me that people lost perception of what national team should be. For that, we have clubs. Let the national team stay national.

[Curtis Lemansky]

Uhmmm Sinan Guler's father was born in Turkey and was a legendary basketball player for the NT back in the 70's.


In general I dont view naturalization as stealing talent if the player was born in that country or moved there at a very early age when he cannot be regarded as a prospect. I only consider naturalization as stealing talent when you bring on a player after he becomes a basketball prospect.

Sipahi and Cedi's families moved to Turkey when they were 11 and 12 years old. Hedo, Semih, Omer, Mehmed are all born and raised in Turkey. The only one I'd count as stealing is Preldzic. He was already a highly regarded prospect and played for Slovenia's youth NT teams before he was brought in ("transferred") into Turkish NT.

I never said that Sinan wasn't born in Turkey though

Anyways, naturalization is just the start. Just like what happened in handball where you can buy the whole goddamn team like Qatar did, soon to be in soccer as well. It is destroying this sport and it's just matter of time when there will be no 1 naturalized per team and then it will all go downhill.

I view national team as national - ethnic. I think everyone would have agreed with me 50 years ago. But nowadays, it seems to me that people lost perception of what national team should be. For that, we have clubs. Let the national team stay national.

Do you have any proof at all regarding Guler's heritage? I'm %100 sure you are confusing him with Orhan Guler, another pg. Like I said, Sinan's father was born in Turkey and was a NT player in 70's. Calling him naturalized is a flat-out lie.

And I see national team as national as well but nobody is % 100 turk and nobody is % 100 greek, you have to draw the line somewhere and seriously if you think players like Omer / Hedo / Okur shouldnt have played in Turkish NT even though they are born and raised in Turkey, then I cant take your opinion seriously.

[Von Bismarck]

Do you have any proof at all regarding Guler's heritage? I'm %100 sure you are confusing him with Orhan Guler, another pg. Like I said, Sinan's father was born in Turkey and was a NT player in 70's. Calling him naturalized is a flat-out lie.

And I see national team as national as well but nobody is % 100 turk and nobody is % 100 greek, you have to draw the line somewhere and seriously if you think players like Omer / Hedo / Okur shouldnt have played in Turkish NT even though they are born and raised in Turkey, then I cant take your opinion seriously.

Here, the coach of some local Turkish basketball club that is originally from Sandzak region of Serbia. http://www.sandzakvijesti.net/sandzaklije-su-proslavile-kosarku-u-turskoj. You can either use google translate or ask someone familiar with Serbian or Croatian to confirm it to you.

Anyways, he says that the guys like Sinan Guler, Omer Asik, Turkoglu, Semih Erden, Ender Arslan etc. are all 'Sandzaklije' or 'Bosniaks'. It is also said that they were born in Turkey, but they all speak Bosnian at home and know very well what they are. After all, I'm not blind and last time I checked, my eyes were still good.

After all, that coach is the same like them, from the same region, living in Turkey etc. I don't see a single reason why this coach would lie, after all, you yourself know very well who are they, aren't you

And I never called him naturalized, he's not naturalized, Lafayette or Dixon are naturalized. I just said they were not Turks, and you know for sure I'm right, that's why we can end this pointless debate. Aight?

[karl25]

Turkey:Korkmaz
Kid is supposed to be one of the best European talents right now and rightfully so.Don t know if he is athletic enough to make it to the NBA but he seems like he fits the mold for a point forward

korkmaz is very athletic and an elite shooter for his age. he's only 17 years old and already playing in euroleague.
I believe he's way more talented than his teammate cedi osman who was drafted this year.

[Crobe]

Just because their grandgrandparents lived in Bosnia doesn't mean they're Bosniaks, Bosnia was under Turkish occupation, so perhaps his ancestors were Turks too. Even if their ancestors were Bosniaks, they're all born in Turkey, hence they're Turkish. My parents were born in Bosnia, yet I'd never represent Bosnia in anything, nothing against Bosnia but I'm not Bosnian.

Even dumber argument is that only certain ethnicities should represent national teams, wtf, really?

Giannis was born in Greece, speaks Greek perfectly, has Greek citizenship and as a citizen of Greece he can represent his country in basketball, end of story.

[JustMagic]

Von Bismarck, if we all will go by that logic, then none of the American players are american.
you responed to that by saying "i'm only intrested in europe", but you can't have this argument without talking about all the nations.
There are many countries who are imigrant countries. So who is really Canadian??? who is really American?
If you want to talk about ethnic groups then great, but what does it have to do with sports and basketball?
FIBA tournaments are for countries, not for ethnic groups. You can start your own basketball federation and organize the "ethnic basketball championship".

Meanwile all people with Turkish passport allowed to represent Turkey, especially if they were born and were grown in Turkey, and its not cheating!!! same with all other nations.

ALL OF THIS ARGUMENT IS IRELEVANT TO THE TOPIC!

[Marcus]

can we keep it basketball gentlemen?

[JZMazlish]

On my draft site, I'm doing a two-part post on my recap of the tournament, here's part one on the non-Team USA guys who caught my eye: http://wingspanaddicts.com/2015/07/10/scouting-the-fiba-u19s-part-1-non-team-usa/

Zubac has 3point range

His game translates well at pro level. When Zizic got injured during Croatian A1 league finals Zubac started game and played with no problems against Stanko Barac and Miro Bilan, proven euroleague players. He was scoring from midrange, used pump fakes to get by Barac, posted him with his back to basket etc. Coach Ante Nazor does not alow centers to shoot. I remeber when he coached Nurkic in Zadar benched him evrey time he shoot ball

If he really is a stretch big then I'm definitely underrating him, but he's not a great FT shooter so I'd have to see more of it in game to be convinced.

[JZMazlish]

For those interested, here's part two on the Team-USA guys, and at the bottom a ranking of everyone in the tournament. Would be interested to hear where you guys think I'm wrong. http://wingspanaddicts.com/2015/07/13/scouting-the-fiba-u19s-part-2-team-usa/