Buddy Hield

[NuggetsWY]

I'm sure Oklahoma found it very difficult to overcome all those weaknesses, like his 37 points. I suspect that if he is too clumsy to handle the ball, that most NBA PGs would love to hand him the ball and then watch him shoot.

If he's going to be limited to spot ups that is exactly what I'm saying when I say I think he's a role player. Not a guy you'd take in the top 4-5 picks.

I apologize, I was talking about the Buddy Hield of Oklahoma about whom so many others around here are saying things like, "Creates his own shot well" and "Shoots well off the dribble". I didn't realize you were talking about a different Buddy Hield, must be we live in alternate realities.

[Gus McCrae]

Kaminsky, Dekker, McDermott, Payne, Napier, Olynyk, Robinson, Zeller, Fredette, Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Terrence Williams, Psycho T, Joe Alexander, Law, Shelden Williams, Adam Morrison, Armstrong, Carney...and the list goes on.

But hey, Curry, Roy and Lillard were all-stars, so I guess that's even

Some of those forward centers were stronger and more experienced than their peers in college which wasn't going to translate to the NBA. Guys like Jimmer, McDermott, Morisson and Turner had full green light and weren't good defenders which would limit their floor time in the NBA. Hield's shooting and not being a defensive sieve will warrant PT regardless so he should translate much better. Dekker and Wes Johnson though I like don't know what happened to Dekker but Wes just doesn't have the mindset though he's carved a decent role for himself

Edit: I don't really like lumping turner in with McDermott, Jimmer and Morrison but you get the point

[JDizzel3000]

So coming up with a rare example means playing the odds is stupid?

What 4 year players have been amazing in the last 15 years? Curry and Lillard? Who else?

I can name 50 senior/junior lottery players in the last years who ended up being busts/just role players and picked way above what they should've because teams fall for the surprising 4th year.

Do you want a list?

I have no problem with picking those players. Just not in the lottery.

I can name 50 freshman players who ended being bust? Lol what are you even talking about my man...you evaluate TALENT & SKILL above age ...

CJ McCollum >>> Anthony Bennette
Draymond Green>>>Austin Rivers
Jimmy Butler/Ken Faired/IT >>>>Derrick Williams
Danny Granger>>>> Marvin Williams



And on and on and on


Stop the madness

[Ettorefm]

Kaminsky, Dekker, McDermott, Payne, Napier, Olynyk, Robinson, Zeller, Fredette, Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Terrence Williams, Psycho T, Joe Alexander, Law, Shelden Williams, Adam Morrison, Armstrong, Carney...and the list goes on.

But hey, Curry, Roy and Lillard were all-stars, so I guess that's even

Some of those forward centers were stronger and more experienced than their peers in college which wasn't going to translate to the NBA. Guys like Jimmer, McDermott, Morisson and Turner had full green light and weren't good defenders which would limit their floor time in the NBA. Hield's shooting and not being a defensive sieve will warrant PT regardless so he should translate much better. Dekker and Wes Johnson though I like don't know what happened to Dekker but Wes just doesn't have the mindset though he's carved a decent role for himself

Edit: I don't really like lumping turner in with McDermott, Jimmer and Morrison but you get the point

Most of the time, 4 year guys who bust/end up underpeforming tend to be one (or more) of the following

- Tweeners/not having a defined position
- Being stronger/more experienced, which doesn't translate
- Having green light to do whatever they want as they're veterans in the team

Most of those guys (AND HIELD) subscribe to those categories. He's a 6'4 combo guard with limited passing and playmaking skills, benefits from being older than everyone else (and, therefore, more developed physically and mentally) and having the freedom to shoot as much as he wants to

How is he any different from those guys? Just because he's a great 3pt shooter in a spacing league?

[JDizzel3000]

This kid I really like btw ....he's having a tourney run similar to what Wade did back in the day he might just slide himself into that 3rd spot if he can take his team all the way ....the body is NBA ready the shooting is great just needs to improve the off the dribble game a bit

[Gus McCrae]

Kaminsky, Dekker, McDermott, Payne, Napier, Olynyk, Robinson, Zeller, Fredette, Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Terrence Williams, Psycho T, Joe Alexander, Law, Shelden Williams, Adam Morrison, Armstrong, Carney...and the list goes on.

But hey, Curry, Roy and Lillard were all-stars, so I guess that's even

Some of those forward centers were stronger and more experienced than their peers in college which wasn't going to translate to the NBA. Guys like Jimmer, McDermott, Morisson and Turner had full green light and weren't good defenders which would limit their floor time in the NBA. Hield's shooting and not being a defensive sieve will warrant PT regardless so he should translate much better. Dekker and Wes Johnson though I like don't know what happened to Dekker but Wes just doesn't have the mindset though he's carved a decent role for himself

Edit: I don't really like lumping turner in with McDermott, Jimmer and Morrison but you get the point

Most of the time, 4 year guys who bust/end up underpeforming tend to be one (or more) of the following

- Tweeners/not having a defined position
- Being stronger/more experienced, which doesn't translate
- Having green light to do whatever they want as they're veterans in the team

Most of those guys (AND HIELD) subscribe to those categories. He's a 6'4 combo guard with limited passing and playmaking skills, benefits from being older than everyone else (and, therefore, more developed physically and mentally) and having the freedom to shoot as much as he wants to

How is he any different from those guys? Just because he's a great 3pt shooter in a spacing league?

Limiting to the SG's he's a generational shooter 50/50/90 and he doesn't strike me as someone that needs to be hidden on defense against other guards. He also doesn't demand the ball he is constantly running off picks so his impact won't be completely nullified by not being the primary ball handler.

[sweetcity]

He's a great prospect and your right it is really similar to D Wade's run. No prospect is perfect.... these clowns trashing is handles dont get that he spends like 10 hrs a day practicing. Thats Kobe like work ethic. DeRozan had an awful handle, he spent one summer working on it, now he's a 2 time all star. GTFO, Buddy Hield is going to be a good NBA player

[Old Man Game]

I'm sure Oklahoma found it very difficult to overcome all those weaknesses, like his 37 points. I suspect that if he is too clumsy to handle the ball, that most NBA PGs would love to hand him the ball and then watch him shoot.

If he's going to be limited to spot ups that is exactly what I'm saying when I say I think he's a role player. Not a guy you'd take in the top 4-5 picks.

I apologize, I was talking about the Buddy Hield of Oklahoma about whom so many others around here are saying things like, "Creates his own shot well" and "Shoots well off the dribble". I didn't realize you were talking about a different Buddy Hield, must be we live in alternate realities.

I was responding to you. When you said "hand him the ball and then watch him shoot" I thought you meant he needed someone else to get him looks and that he'd more or less be spotting up. Not that you were referring to other people on here saying he could create his own look.

Look, whatever. Not looking to get into an internet comment pissing contest. Hope your team drafts him. Good luck.

[Gus McCrae]

Some of those forward centers were stronger and more experienced than their peers in college which wasn't going to translate to the NBA. Guys like Jimmer, McDermott, Morisson and Turner had full green light and weren't good defenders which would limit their floor time in the NBA. Hield's shooting and not being a defensive sieve will warrant PT regardless so he should translate much better. Dekker and Wes Johnson though I like don't know what happened to Dekker but Wes just doesn't have the mindset though he's carved a decent role for himself

Edit: I don't really like lumping turner in with McDermott, Jimmer and Morrison but you get the point

Most of the time, 4 year guys who bust/end up underpeforming tend to be one (or more) of the following

- Tweeners/not having a defined position
- Being stronger/more experienced, which doesn't translate
- Having green light to do whatever they want as they're veterans in the team

Most of those guys (AND HIELD) subscribe to those categories. He's a 6'4 combo guard with limited passing and playmaking skills, benefits from being older than everyone else (and, therefore, more developed physically and mentally) and having the freedom to shoot as much as he wants to

How is he any different from those guys? Just because he's a great 3pt shooter in a spacing league?

Limiting to the SG's he's a generational shooter 50/50/90 and he doesn't strike me as someone that needs to be hidden on defense against other guards. He also doesn't demand the ball he is constantly running off screens so his impact won't be completely nullified by not being the primary ball handler.

[GimmeDat]

You can get caught up in the whole 'seniors' thing, just like you can 'tweeners' and other things. At the end of the day, Hield is a guy who is lighting college basketball up right now with skills that are very translatable to the NBA.

Guys like McDermott/Jimmer/Morrison/Kaminsky had serious question marks about how their games would translate, Buddy doesn't really have that. He's not an elite athlete, but he is very solid, solid enough that I don't think he'll struggle at the next level. He's not a terrible defender that needs to be covered up. He's predominantly a shooter, one of the most translatable skills there is.

He's a high floor/solid upside prospect. He's older and I don't think you draft him with any expectations that he has star potential, but I think you're likely drafting a guy who can come in and be a very good core piece for your ball club.

[Barnsey]

Kaminsky, Dekker, McDermott, Payne, Napier, Olynyk, Robinson, Zeller, Fredette, Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Terrence Williams, Psycho T, Joe Alexander, Law, Shelden Williams, Adam Morrison, Armstrong, Carney...and the list goes on.

But hey, Curry, Roy and Lillard were all-stars, so I guess that's even

That's not really a fair or accurate representation of the truth.
1) A lot of the guys you listed haven't been in the league long enough to conclude that they're a bust (kaminsky, dekker, mcdermott, payne, napier, olynyk). In fact, some of those players actually look pretty promising to me. Especially Payne.
2) you only listed 3 upperclassmen that became successful, making out as if they are the only ones. There's many more. I'll make a list too...

Players drafted as upperclassmen who were/are successful in the NBA (all seniors unless noted otherwise):
Curry (junior)
Roy
Lillard
Tim Duncan
Draymond Green
Chandler Parsons
Paul Millsap (junior)
Dwyane Wade (junior)
Jimmy Butler
Wesley Matthews
Kenneth Faried
David Lee
JJ Reddick
CJ McCollum
David West
Josh Howard
Kyle Korver
Shane Battier
Kenyon Martin
Jason Terry
Wally Szczerbiak
Andre Miller
Danny Granger
Isaiah Thomas (junior)
Rip Hamilton (junior)
Shawn Marion (junior)
Michael Redd (junior)
Richard Jefferson (junior)
Kevin Martin (junior)
Emeka Okafor (junior)
Ben Gordon (junior)
Carlos Boozer (junior)
Deron Williams (junior)
Al Horford (junior)
Joakim Noah (junior)
Ty Lawson until his DUI issues (junior)
Kemba Walker (junior)
Klay Thompson (junior)
Nikola Vucevic (junior)
Reggie Jackson (junior)
Khris Middleton (junior)
Victor Oladipo (junior)
and Yao Ming was drafted as a 22 year old.

To a lesser extent...

Upperclassmen that panned out and became good role players:
Morris Peterson
Jameer Nelson
Tony Allen
Tayshaun Prince
Desmond Mason
James Posey
Channing Frye
Aaron Brooks
Roy Hibbert
DeMarre Carroll
Darren Collison
Danny Green
Marcus Thornton
Jae Crowder
Drew Gooden (junior)
Chris Kaman (junior)
Ray Felton (junior)
Nate Robinson (junior)
PJ Tucker (junior)
Arron Afflalo (junior)
George Hill (junior)
Taj Gibson (junior)
Larry Sanders until his existential crisis (junior)
Markieff Morris (junior)
Jordan Clarkson (junior)

There's plenty of value in drafting an upperclassmen provided they have the right skills already. You're shaping your argument in a very bias way.

[Old Man Game]

I think one big issue I'm having is just how significant this jump in his 3 point percentage has been. For 3 years he never shot over 40% and now in year 4 he's at 46%!?! Yes, there is such a thing as a late bloomer but if you're being honest I don't see how you can't help but wonder how sustainable this is. Couple that with the much better defenders he'll be seeing next year. And if he's not lights out from 3 what else is he doing that would justify taking him top 5?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huestjo01.html#advanced::none

[yitur]

I think one big issue I'm having is just how significant this jump in his 3 point percentage has been. For 3 years he never shot over 40% and now in year 4 he's at 46%!?! Yes, there is such a thing as a late bloomer but if you're being honest I don't see how you can't help but wonder how sustainable this is. Couple that with the much better defenders he'll be seeing next year. And if he's not lights out from 3 what else is he doing that would justify taking him top 5?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huestjo01.html#advanced::none

Damn, even people improving in an area is now a weakness.

[Austincys21]

Kaminsky, Dekker, McDermott, Payne, Napier, Olynyk, Robinson, Zeller, Fredette, Wes Johnson, Evan Turner, Terrence Williams, Psycho T, Joe Alexander, Law, Shelden Williams, Adam Morrison, Armstrong, Carney...and the list goes on.

But hey, Curry, Roy and Lillard were all-stars, so I guess that's even

Some of those forward centers were stronger and more experienced than their peers in college which wasn't going to translate to the NBA. Guys like Jimmer, McDermott, Morisson and Turner had full green light and weren't good defenders which would limit their floor time in the NBA. Hield's shooting and not being a defensive sieve will warrant PT regardless so he should translate much better. Dekker and Wes Johnson though I like don't know what happened to Dekker but Wes just doesn't have the mindset though he's carved a decent role for himself

Edit: I don't really like lumping turner in with McDermott, Jimmer and Morrison but you get the point

Also what sets Hield aside is that he wants it !!! He wants to be great and will work his ass off. I think he knows that to be a good NBA player is that you gotta work hard. Since his freshmen year he took his weaknesses of bad form and handles to a great shot and a much improved handle.

I'd say the thing that scares me is his D of bourse, he's an avg on ball but off ball he's Harden

[nokamkjr]

Three points.....
Buddy can't handle- honestly he turns it over on the double team sometimes I think too often but when u close out quick he will drive by you with quickness and for some reason although he has the hops he would rather lay it up but honestly in the NBA hes gunna have to cuz of more shot blockers with sizE (don't be ou freshman Buford on Saturday) most of the time.... But compare him to last year... He shot but didn't really attack close outs... Him and now OU pg Isaiah cousins spent all summer trading trade secrets Isaiah gaining chavano's 3 and buddy developing Isaiah's Mt. Vernon new York handle to an extent... A true star/franchise player attacks his own weaknesses... Regardless of prior success.. He could have been like I'll b jj reddick or any other Kyle korver type player.. U leave me open u loose but now he will create space( decent cross w/ underrated acceleration, not to mention a jordanesque pushoff (dont kill me on that more of a joke but not so much)lol with the smarts not to extend his arm) or u come jumpin he running past u( just learned on the DP show he use to run track, explains y he got a lil keV gates in him... He don't get tired) n all seriousness he developed his weakness
Buddy is short- bruh... Nobody dwarfs him... He stood next to Kobe and I'll b damned if they ain't look the same height... I'm just letting da world kno if ya boy measure at 6'5 or more 1st pick n da draft..... Period... If my THC soaked mind remembers correctly he look almost valentines height from msu but I kno for sure him n Kobe was eye to eye... Now the experts will chip n here n say he got wingspan... More than a 6'5 Murray in fact which in itself would make up for that because bro u don't block shots with the apex of your head but your hand extended from your arms..... Which brings me to the finale
Buddy don't d these hoes down- watch the damn game... Don't regurgitate what you hear on tv.... Haven't seen one game where the other teams coach orchestrates it to attack whoever buddy is guarding, tbh he plays too far off his man daring him to shoot at times but I've realized something lately ..... When all the experts are comparing him to a d Wade wit a shot it's cuz of two things offball defense and rebounding.... How many off ball blocks have u seen him get from help defense? Alot..... He comes from behind and throws somebody **** back to Norman if not once a game then damn close either before the tourney started or just after I remember games where chavano's turnin easy two's into souvenir's... N I think he just realizing his own athleticism look at the rebound put back last game... If he was aggressive wit da finish instead of just ushering the ball n... He was high enough to rattle the rim.... He got his first double double n the tourney on his weakest scoring night....
N conclusion pick Simmons if u wanna... Pick Ingram if u please, pick who u wanna but I guarantee if u pick buddy he guaranteed to progress because when u the conference player of da year n u come back better, ain't dat steph Dis year Ncaa version?

[nokamkjr]

Three points.....
Buddy can't handle- honestly he turns it over on the double team sometimes I think too often but when u close out quick he will drive by you with quickness and for some reason although he has the hops he would rather lay it up but honestly in the NBA hes gunna have to cuz of more shot blockers with sizE (don't be ou freshman Buford on Saturday) most of the time.... But compare him to last year... He shot but didn't really attack close outs... Him and now OU pg Isaiah cousins spent all summer trading trade secrets Isaiah gaining chavano's 3 and buddy developing Isaiah's Mt. Vernon new York handle to an extent... A true star/franchise player attacks his own weaknesses... Regardless of prior success.. He could have been like I'll b jj reddick or any other Kyle korver type player.. U leave me open u loose but now he will create space( decent cross w/ underrated acceleration, not to mention a jordanesque pushoff (dont kill me on that more of a joke but not so much)lol with the smarts not to extend his arm) or u come jumpin he running past u( just learned on the DP show he use to run track, explains y he got a lil keV gates in him... He don't get tired) n all seriousness he developed his weakness
Buddy is short- bruh... Nobody dwarfs him... He stood next to Kobe and I'll b damned if they ain't look the same height... I'm just letting da world kno if ya boy measure at 6'5 or more 1st pick n da draft..... Period... If my THC soaked mind remembers correctly he look almost valentines height from msu but I kno for sure him n Kobe was eye to eye... Now the experts will chip n here n say he got wingspan... More than a 6'5 Murray in fact which in itself would make up for that because bro u don't block shots with the apex of your head but your hand extended from your arms..... Which brings me to the finale
Buddy don't d these hoes down- watch the damn game... Don't regurgitate what you hear on tv.... Haven't seen one game where the other teams coach orchestrates it to attack whoever buddy is guarding, tbh he plays too far off his man daring him to shoot at times but I've realized something lately ..... When all the experts are comparing him to a d Wade wit a shot it's cuz of two things offball defense and rebounding.... How many off ball blocks have u seen him get from help defense? Alot..... He comes from behind and throws somebody **** back to Norman if not once a game then damn close either before the tourney started or just after I remember games where chavano's turnin easy two's into souvenir's... N I think he just realizing his own athleticism look at the rebound put back last game... If he was aggressive wit da finish instead of just ushering the ball n... He was high enough to rattle the rim.... He got his first double double n the tourney on his weakest scoring night....
N conclusion pick Simmons if u wanna... Pick Ingram if u please, pick who u wanna but I guarantee if u pick buddy he guaranteed to progress because when u the conference player of da year n u come back better, ain't dat steph Dis year Ncaa version?

[BaunceyChillups]

I think there's less of a concern taking a senior guard over a senior forward.

[Gus McCrae]

Just realized I quoted my own post this page where I meant to edit it.

[H2tObes]

You can get caught up in the whole 'seniors' thing, just like you can 'tweeners' and other things. At the end of the day, Hield is a guy who is lighting college basketball up right now with skills that are very translatable to the NBA.

Guys like McDermott/Jimmer/Morrison/Kaminsky had serious question marks about how their games would translate, Buddy doesn't really have that. He's not an elite athlete, but he is very solid, solid enough that I don't think he'll struggle at the next level. He's not a terrible defender that needs to be covered up. He's predominantly a shooter, one of the most translatable skills there is.

He's a high floor/solid upside prospect. He's older and I don't think you draft him with any expectations that he has star potential, but I think you're likely drafting a guy who can come in and be a very good core piece for your ball club.

Very good post, everyone who compares Hield to Jimmer/McDermott should understand that those guys had very questionable NBA tools. Hield is so much better off in that regard

[H2tObes]

I think one big issue I'm having is just how significant this jump in his 3 point percentage has been. For 3 years he never shot over 40% and now in year 4 he's at 46%!?! Yes, there is such a thing as a late bloomer but if you're being honest I don't see how you can't help but wonder how sustainable this is. Couple that with the much better defenders he'll be seeing next year. And if he's not lights out from 3 what else is he doing that would justify taking him top 5?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/huestjo01.html#advanced::none

An entire season of shooting like this is no fluke. Have you watched him in the tourney? This kid is one of the best shooters I have ever seen. Has NBA range already, needs almost no room to get his shot off, and is very good at creating separation to get his shot off. Just the total package as a shooter. How anyone could suggest that this is a fluke is beyond me, open your eyes. Just a totally unfair criticism, since when do we fault a player for greatly improving? If anything it goes to show how hard of a worker this kid is, like everyone around him raves about