Where would Fultz and Ball rank in the last 5 drafts

[Wiltside]

We just did a re-draft of a combined 2016 and 2017 draft. Check it out if you're interested https://thefourpointplay.blog/2017/06/18/combined-nba-draft/

[kriss73]

Chad Ford released his annual draft tiers article this week, with Fultz and Ball both ranked in Tier I by NBA GM's which corresponds to potential franchise players.

So over the last 5 years, the prospects ranked in Tier I have been:
Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Towns
Simmons
Fultz
Ball

Meaning Fultz and Ball rank in the top 7 prospects of the last 5 years.

And also meaning that 3 out of 7 are in sixers jersey. Very nice for us

[crows2]

Chad Ford released his annual draft tiers article this week, with Fultz and Ball both ranked in Tier I by NBA GM's which corresponds to potential franchise players.

So over the last 5 years, the prospects ranked in Tier I have been:
Wiggins
Parker
Embiid
Towns
Simmons
Fultz
Ball

Meaning Fultz and Ball rank in the top 7 prospects of the last 5 years.

And also meaning that 3 out of 7 are in sixers jersey. Very nice for us

Haha yes I was meaning to mention that in my post. 3 Tier I prospects in the last 5 years is ridiculous.

[Novocaine]

The 'debate' between Ingram and Simmons was mostly fueled by Woj and his cronies at DX. The Sixers had the #1 pick, and they told Simmons he was the #1 pick after one workout, a few weeks prior to the draft. It really wasn't close at all. People need to stop believing that mock boards and ESPN talk shows actually matter.

What does the Sixers have to do with any of this? We're talking months before the lotto even happened, obviously RIGHT before the draft Ben Simmons was the favorite to be #1 - who is arguing otherwise?

Ingram vs Simmons isn't some ESPN talk show propaganda, I got no clue where you got that from. Plus you just mentioned 3 separate entities in Yahoo Sports, DX and ESPN.

There was no debate who was going to be the number one pick all season. Ingram was never a serious candidate to be number one. Every GM was taking Simmons. Simmons was the clear best player and generational talent.

This is revisionist story of the highest caliber.

Even in the 76ers board on this site, not only there was plenty of debate and on a +100 pages topic, Simmons was only ahead of Ingram by a 56%-44% margin. ANd I suspect it was far more balanced before it became clear that Simmons would be the 76ers pick.

viewtopic.php?t=1421939&start=680

I mean, come on. It was just last year. There was a Simmons vs Ingram debate going on throughout the entire season, even though Simmons was always the favourite. It's totally absurd to claim there wasn't debate. That is some "flat earth" level of absurdity.

[Unbreakable99]

What does the Sixers have to do with any of this? We're talking months before the lotto even happened, obviously RIGHT before the draft Ben Simmons was the favorite to be #1 - who is arguing otherwise?

Ingram vs Simmons isn't some ESPN talk show propaganda, I got no clue where you got that from. Plus you just mentioned 3 separate entities in Yahoo Sports, DX and ESPN.

There was no debate who was going to be the number one pick all season. Ingram was never a serious candidate to be number one. Every GM was taking Simmons. Simmons was the clear best player and generational talent.

This is revisionist story of the highest caliber.

Even in the 76ers board on this site, not only there was plenty of debate and on a +100 pages topic, Simmons was only ahead of Ingram by a 56%-44% margin. ANd I suspect it was far more balanced before it became clear that Simmons would be the 76ers pick.

viewtopic.php?t=1421939&start=680

I mean, come on. It was just last year. There was a Simmons vs Ingram debate going on throughout the entire season. It's totally absurd to claim there wasn't. This is some "the earth is flat" level of absurdity.

There was no debate. Simmons was clearly the best prospect.

[Novocaine]

There was no debate who was going to be the number one pick all season. Ingram was never a serious candidate to be number one. Every GM was taking Simmons. Simmons was the clear best player and generational talent.

This is revisionist story of the highest caliber.

Even in the 76ers board on this site, not only there was plenty of debate and on a +100 pages topic, Simmons was only ahead of Ingram by a 56%-44% margin. ANd I suspect it was far more balanced before it became clear that Simmons would be the 76ers pick.

viewtopic.php?t=1421939&start=680

I mean, come on. It was just last year. There was a Simmons vs Ingram debate going on throughout the entire season. It's totally absurd to claim there wasn't. This is some "the earth is flat" level of absurdity.

There was no debate. Simmons was clearly the best prospect.

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

[Unbreakable99]

This is revisionist story of the highest caliber.

Even in the 76ers board on this site, not only there was plenty of debate and on a +100 pages topic, Simmons was only ahead of Ingram by a 56%-44% margin. ANd I suspect it was far more balanced before it became clear that Simmons would be the 76ers pick.

viewtopic.php?t=1421939&start=680

I mean, come on. It was just last year. There was a Simmons vs Ingram debate going on throughout the entire season. It's totally absurd to claim there wasn't. This is some "the earth is flat" level of absurdity.

There was no debate. Simmons was clearly the best prospect.

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

[Novocaine]

There was no debate. Simmons was clearly the best prospect.

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

I always thought so - although I'm often wrong and might be the case here. Seems like the difference between us is that I'm reality based and am fully aware there was indeed a debate and my opinion was very far from consensual, no?

[crows2]

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

I always thought so - although I'm often wrong and might be the case here. Seems like the difference between us is that I'm reality based and am fully aware there was indeed a debate and my opinion was very far from consensual, no?

I think the debate was mainly centred around who Philly would take rather than who the better prospect was. In scouting and GM circles Simmons was nearly unanimously considered the best prospect in last year's draft. I wouldn't put much weight into who people on an anonymous forum voted for.

[HeartBreakKid]

There was no debate. Simmons was clearly the best prospect.

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

[Unbreakable99]

I mean, I just posted a link to a thread where everyone can actually see there was debate. WHat are you trying to argue here? You're coming across as completely unglued. It's there. Click the link and read the debate. It's a matter of fact. It happened.

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

[Lalouie]

All these guys had more favorable ink coming in... Simmons, Davis, Towns, Russell, Okafor, Wiggins, Parker, Embiid,

[Master Amino]

1) Karl-Anthony Towns
2) Andrew Wiggins
3) Jabari Parker
4) Ben Simmons
5) Joel Embiid
6) Jahlil Okafor
7) D'Angelo Russell
8) Kristaps Porzingis
9) Brandon Ingram
10) Victor Oladipo

[12footrim]

I think it's helpful, when thinking about potential top picks, to put them in a broader context. So, I was wondering where we'd rank Fultz and Ball in a pool players over the past 5 years. I'm not asking what you think of everyone now, but at the time of the players respective drafts (meaning you don't know Giannis is going to turn into a super star, he's just as unknown as he was on draft night).

I'd rate them...
1. Towns
2. Fultz
3. Ball
4. Simmons

This is how Kevin Pelton's statistical model rated the top players coming into the draft over that period.

Lonzo Ball (4.1)
Karl-Anthony Towns (4.0)
D'Angelo Russell (3.9)
Ben Simmons (3.6)
Kristaps Porzingis (3.5)
Nerlens Noel (3.5)
Marcus Smart (3.5)
Markell Fultz (3.3)


I've not been much of a Ball fan but this does give me more confidence in him.

[Patsfan1081]

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

Well of course you're going to say that because you're a Sixer fan but there were plenty or writers and others who made the arguement for Ingram also. You can pretend the evidence doesn't excise if you want....

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/05/18/2016-nba-mock-draft-1-0/

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/2/17/10989636/brandon-ingram-nba-draft-2016-ben-simmons-first-pick

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-nba-mock-draft-brandon-ingram-looks-like-a-good-fit-for-sixers/

[MalonesElbows]

Bottom line. Simmons was the clear best player.

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

At draft time, no, Ingram's play fell off sharply toward the latter part of the season. During the season it was a debate. DX had him mocked at #1 for 2 months

[Unbreakable99]

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

Well of course you're going to say that because you're a Sixer fan but there were plenty or writers and others who made the arguement for Ingram also. You can pretend the evidence doesn't excise if you want....

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/05/18/2016-nba-mock-draft-1-0/

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/2/17/10989636/brandon-ingram-nba-draft-2016-ben-simmons-first-pick

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2016-nba-mock-draft-brandon-ingram-looks-like-a-good-fit-for-sixers/

Me being a Sixers fan has nothing to do with it. I was touting Simmons all year. And I say again not one GM would have taken Ingram over Simmons. Just like this year I think Ball is the best prospect then Jackson then Fultz. Just because we jumped to one and are taking Fultz I'm not going to change my mind. I still think Fultz is overrated.

[Unbreakable99]

Uh, that's cool, but that doesn't change the fact that for most of the college season it was a debate. If you don't follow that type of basketball then that's on you.

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

At draft time, no, Ingram's play fell off sharply toward the latter part of the season. During the season it was a debate. DX had him mocked at #1 for 2 months

Not one GM would have taken Ingram over Simmons.

[HeartBreakKid]

Please. I watched both plenty of times in college. Simmons was clearly better and not one GM wouldn't have taken Ingram over Simmons if they had the top pick.

At draft time, no, Ingram's play fell off sharply toward the latter part of the season. During the season it was a debate. DX had him mocked at #1 for 2 months

Not one GM would have taken Ingram over Simmons.

Uh in January, yes...a few gms would have.

[The_Hater]

I think it's helpful, when thinking about potential top picks, to put them in a broader context. So, I was wondering where we'd rank Fultz and Ball in a pool players over the past 5 years. I'm not asking what you think of everyone now, but at the time of the players respective drafts (meaning you don't know Giannis is going to turn into a super star, he's just as unknown as he was on draft night).

I'd rate them...
1. Towns
2. Fultz
3. Ball
4. Simmons

Strictly as prospects, Simmons would be ahead of both 2017 players by a comfortable margin. He was considered an elite prospect for years. Simmons would also rank ahead of Towns imo. As good as Towns looks in the NBA, he was considered a dead heat with Okafor throughout his college career and wasn't the consensus top pick in 2015

The interesting debate here is actually how to rank Towns/Wiggins/Parker/Fultz/Ball. Wiggins and Parker were both rated so high coming out of HS and before their lone college season.