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Harry Garris wrote:That performance from Sheppard was concerning, I get nerves from a freshman in his first tournament game, and the missed shots and lack of aggressiveness were pretty bad but not the main thing, it was that he just looked physically outmatched by dudes who in their own right are nowhere near the level of NBA level athletes.

I do think there's a baseline level of athletic competency you need to succeed in the NBA and despite the shooting ability and defensive BBIQ I'm not sure if Shepperd is over it.

It was a bummer for sure

LMAO these dudes can't even ball vs Oakland. No chance either goes top 5.

This draft is honestly shaping up to be one of the worst in a long time.

Even Cody Williams and Risacher look bad to end the season.

Harry Garris wrote:That performance from Sheppard was concerning, I get nerves from a freshman in his first tournament game, and the missed shots and lack of aggressiveness were pretty bad but not the main thing, it was that he just looked physically outmatched by dudes who in their own right are nowhere near the level of NBA level athletes.

I do think there's a baseline level of athletic competency you need to succeed in the NBA and despite the shooting ability and defensive BBIQ I'm not sure if Shepperd is over it.

Do not think that was it at all. Think the strategy of feeding the post was just dumb. Bogged their offense down. Plus, not starting their best players caught up with them.

JustBuzzin wrote:LMAO these dudes can't even ball vs Oakland. No chance either goes top 5.

This draft is honestly shaping up to be one of the worst in a long time.

Even Cody Williams and Risacher look bad to end the season.

The dude who went off for them is 25 years old...

hopefully that ends the foolishness about them being high lottery talents though I wouldn't hold my breath. Apologists are already being spin doctors. It's unfortunate the lights were too bright for Sheppard. Really sucked the air out of what was a really fun season from him. I wonder if he'll elect to return since first round isn't guaranteed like it probably is for Dillingham.

FarBeyondDriven wrote:hopefully that ends the foolishness about them being high lottery talents though I wouldn't hold my breath. Apologists are already being spin doctors. It's unfortunate the lights were too bright for Sheppard. Really sucked the air out of what was a really fun season from him. I wonder if he'll elect to return since first round isn't guaranteed like it probably is for Dillingham.

This is projection and I've stated as some others that I didn't think most of these guys are ready to start in this class as OAD prospects.

The strength of this class is the OAD talent at PG, upperclassmen prospects in particular as seniors, best senior class since 99, and you got a nice top 4 true center class led by Edey, Clingan, Missi, and Ware.

Other than that, it's all gonna be based on the pre draft process more than any previous class. I've said this a week ago or more than a week ago that we don't even know what the lottery will look like yet and there are five guys who will be in the lottery that we currently don't expect to be

This doesn't really change anything for me. Sheppard is a tier 3.5 kid and a bad game wasn't gonna drop him. I never thought he was a day 1 starter. Always saw him as a 8th man who grows into being a starter, then eventually a star

The frustrating thing about this class is it might be the worst OAD class in the modern NBA era which I classify as Greg Oden draft aka the beginning of OAD.

King Ken wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:hopefully that ends the foolishness about them being high lottery talents though I wouldn't hold my breath. Apologists are already being spin doctors. It's unfortunate the lights were too bright for Sheppard. Really sucked the air out of what was a really fun season from him. I wonder if he'll elect to return since first round isn't guaranteed like it probably is for Dillingham.

This is projection and I've stated as some others that I didn't think most of these guys are ready to start in this class as OAD prospects.

The strength of this class is the OAD talent at PG, upperclassmen prospects in particular as seniors, best senior class since 99, and you got a nice top 4 true center class led by Edey, Clingan, Missi, and Ware.

Other than that, it's all gonna be based on the pre draft process more than any previous class. I've said this a week ago or more than a week ago that we don't even know what the lottery will look like yet and there are five guys who will be in the lottery that we currently don't expect to be

This doesn't really change anything for me. Sheppard is a tier 3.5 kid and a bad game wasn't gonna drop him. I never thought he was a day 1 starter. Always saw him as a 8th man who grows into being a starter, then eventually a star

The frustrating thing about this class is it might be the worst OAD class in the modern NBA era which I classify as Greg Oden draft aka the beginning of OAD.

I think center group is the strength of the class overall. Clingan, Edey, Flip, Ware, Holmes II, Sarr, Yang (if he declares) would all be in my top 20.

I think for the most part the international class has been overrated though (Topic and Yang are the only potential real gems for me in the international class).

I think overall the depth of the class is pretty good, above average even, just lacking in elite top end guys at perimeter positions

The Moose wrote:

King Ken wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:hopefully that ends the foolishness about them being high lottery talents though I wouldn't hold my breath. Apologists are already being spin doctors. It's unfortunate the lights were too bright for Sheppard. Really sucked the air out of what was a really fun season from him. I wonder if he'll elect to return since first round isn't guaranteed like it probably is for Dillingham.

This is projection and I've stated as some others that I didn't think most of these guys are ready to start in this class as OAD prospects.

The strength of this class is the OAD talent at PG, upperclassmen prospects in particular as seniors, best senior class since 99, and you got a nice top 4 true center class led by Edey, Clingan, Missi, and Ware.

Other than that, it's all gonna be based on the pre draft process more than any previous class. I've said this a week ago or more than a week ago that we don't even know what the lottery will look like yet and there are five guys who will be in the lottery that we currently don't expect to be

This doesn't really change anything for me. Sheppard is a tier 3.5 kid and a bad game wasn't gonna drop him. I never thought he was a day 1 starter. Always saw him as a 8th man who grows into being a starter, then eventually a star

The frustrating thing about this class is it might be the worst OAD class in the modern NBA era which I classify as Greg Oden draft aka the beginning of OAD.

I think center group is the strength of the class overall. Clingan, Edey, Flip, Ware, Holmes II, Sarr, Yang (if he declares) would all be in my top 20.

I think for the most part the international class has been overrated though (Topic and Yang are the only potential real gems for me in the international class).

I think overall the depth of the class is pretty good, above average even, just lacking in elite top end guys at perimeter positions

While I got some of those guys as long term 4s, one even a 3 but if you want to label them within the center position, sure, go for it. It's definitely the strength of this class.

The international class largely depends on pre draft. If they perform well at the combine and pre draft, you could see a lot of movement just based on that.

The depth is good due to the upperclassmen. Otherwise, this would be a weak class based on the normal standards of previous classes in the modern era but maybe we are in for a new normal due to NIL/portal/COVID year which is coming to an end soon in the 2026 draft.

I think the strength of this class is between 10-24.

The Moose wrote:

King Ken wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:hopefully that ends the foolishness about them being high lottery talents though I wouldn't hold my breath. Apologists are already being spin doctors. It's unfortunate the lights were too bright for Sheppard. Really sucked the air out of what was a really fun season from him. I wonder if he'll elect to return since first round isn't guaranteed like it probably is for Dillingham.

This is projection and I've stated as some others that I didn't think most of these guys are ready to start in this class as OAD prospects.

The strength of this class is the OAD talent at PG, upperclassmen prospects in particular as seniors, best senior class since 99, and you got a nice top 4 true center class led by Edey, Clingan, Missi, and Ware.

Other than that, it's all gonna be based on the pre draft process more than any previous class. I've said this a week ago or more than a week ago that we don't even know what the lottery will look like yet and there are five guys who will be in the lottery that we currently don't expect to be

This doesn't really change anything for me. Sheppard is a tier 3.5 kid and a bad game wasn't gonna drop him. I never thought he was a day 1 starter. Always saw him as a 8th man who grows into being a starter, then eventually a star

The frustrating thing about this class is it might be the worst OAD class in the modern NBA era which I classify as Greg Oden draft aka the beginning of OAD.

I think center group is the strength of the class overall. Clingan, Edey, Flip, Ware, Holmes II, Sarr, Yang (if he declares) would all be in my top 20.

I think for the most part the international class has been overrated though (Topic and Yang are the only potential real gems for me in the international class).

I think overall the depth of the class is pretty good, above average even, just lacking in elite top end guys at perimeter positions

how? This class is starting to remind me of the underrated 2016 class that everyone claimed sucked. 2016 and 2024 are the two best international classes ever imo. 2016 had nearly 30 international kids and several standouts (Simmons, Hield, Poeltl, Sabonis, Siakam,
Zubac) Like 2024, the 2016 OAD were weaker but it was more than made up for by its international players.

Here's 20 guys likely to be drafted (assuming they come out) from the 2024 class

Sarr
Yang
Risacher
Topic
Salaun
George
Missi
Furphy
Ajinca
Klintman
Perrin
Ivisic
Nunez
Bona
Dadiet
Almansa
Chomche
da Silva
Mitchell
Larsson

For comparison's sake, past international classes' totals (not including Canada) with good players in brackets:

2020 = 14 (Avdija)

2021 = 17 (Giddey, Kuminga, Wagner)

2022 = 15 (Sochan)

2023 = 9 (Wembanyama, Coulibaly?)

FarBeyondDriven wrote:

The Moose wrote:

King Ken wrote:This is projection and I've stated as some others that I didn't think most of these guys are ready to start in this class as OAD prospects.

The strength of this class is the OAD talent at PG, upperclassmen prospects in particular as seniors, best senior class since 99, and you got a nice top 4 true center class led by Edey, Clingan, Missi, and Ware.

Other than that, it's all gonna be based on the pre draft process more than any previous class. I've said this a week ago or more than a week ago that we don't even know what the lottery will look like yet and there are five guys who will be in the lottery that we currently don't expect to be

This doesn't really change anything for me. Sheppard is a tier 3.5 kid and a bad game wasn't gonna drop him. I never thought he was a day 1 starter. Always saw him as a 8th man who grows into being a starter, then eventually a star

The frustrating thing about this class is it might be the worst OAD class in the modern NBA era which I classify as Greg Oden draft aka the beginning of OAD.

I think center group is the strength of the class overall. Clingan, Edey, Flip, Ware, Holmes II, Sarr, Yang (if he declares) would all be in my top 20.

I think for the most part the international class has been overrated though (Topic and Yang are the only potential real gems for me in the international class).

I think overall the depth of the class is pretty good, above average even, just lacking in elite top end guys at perimeter positions

how? This class is starting to remind me of the underrated 2016 class that everyone claimed sucked. 2016 and 2024 are the two best international classes ever imo. 2016 had nearly 30 international kids and several standouts (Simmons, Hield, Poeltl, Sabonis, Siakam,
Zubac) Like 2024, the 2016 OAD were weaker but it was more than made up for by its international players.

Here's 20 guys likely to be drafted (assuming they come out) from the 2024 class

Sarr
Yang
Risacher
Topic
Salaun
George
Missi
Furphy
Ajinca
Klintman
Perrin
Ivisic
Nunez
Bona
Dadiet
Almansa
Chomche
da Silva
Mitchell
Larsson

For comparison's sake, past international classes' totals (not including Canada) with good players in brackets:

2020 = 14 (Avdija)

2021 = 17 (Giddey, Kuminga, Wagner)

2022 = 15 (Sochan)

2023 = 9 (Wembanyama, Coulibaly?)

I believe he meant, International by not playing in the NCAA. Half of the guys you listed play in the NCAAs.

The concern for me, as a Wizards fan who's team will have a top 5 pick was always Sheppard's athleticism, not his BBALL IQ. IQ can only get you so far in the NBA if you're not at least somewhat athletic. If he was overwhelmed by 23-24 year olds who essentially play in a 2nd tier D1 school, what's it going to be like going against world class NBA athletes every night? So I'll pass. I also saw on the Ringer that Dillingham's wingspan is 6'2. He's 6 feet tall, that's just horrendous metrics. Is the draft this bad that at some point these kids were considered top 10 picks?

If Reed doesn't get open 3 pt looks he has a quiet game, been that way all year with the exception of maybe 3-4 games. He doesn't have the ability to force the issue and just win because he is better, bigger, stronger, faster..

I don't really have time to watch a lot of college ball outside of UConn, so when I see guys in March Madness, for better and for worse I do my best not to let those single games dictate my entire view of them, like I'm gonna have to go back and watch more of them

But that's a pretty bad first impression for me.

Rafael122 wrote:The concern for me, as a Wizards fan who's team will have a top 5 pick was always Sheppard's athleticism, not his BBALL IQ. IQ can only get you so far in the NBA if you're not at least somewhat athletic. If he was overwhelmed by 23-24 year olds who essentially play in a 2nd tier D1 school, what's it going to be like going against world class NBA athletes every night? So I'll pass. I also saw on the Ringer that Dillingham's wingspan is 6'2. He's 6 feet tall, that's just horrendous metrics. Is the draft this bad that at some point these kids were considered top 10 picks?

Sheppard and Dillingham are too small to play playoff minutes, but both are still near guaranteed to go top 10 because this class is so horrible.

The best comparison I saw for Sheppard's ceiling is late career Mike Conley... Who probably can't play in the postseason anymore, but we're about to find out...

At this point I have no issues with either of them being in the 10th pick range, but the people pumping their bags that they are #1 pick talents in this class is where I don't think it's close.

Steph Curry is never only taking 5 shots in the most important game of the year. Please delete that connection from your brain.

Neither looked like a first round pick to me.

JMAC3 wrote:If Reed doesn't get open 3 pt looks he has a quiet game, been that way all year with the exception of maybe 3-4 games. He doesn't have the ability to force the issue and just win because he is better, bigger, stronger, faster..

Yup, Reed is not the centerpiece of an offense. Not even close. Period and end of discussion.

MemphisX wrote:

Harry Garris wrote:That performance from Sheppard was concerning, I get nerves from a freshman in his first tournament game, and the missed shots and lack of aggressiveness were pretty bad but not the main thing, it was that he just looked physically outmatched by dudes who in their own right are nowhere near the level of NBA level athletes.

I do think there's a baseline level of athletic competency you need to succeed in the NBA and despite the shooting ability and defensive BBIQ I'm not sure if Shepperd is over it.

Do not think that was it at all. Think the strategy of feeding the post was just dumb. Bogged their offense down. Plus, not starting their best players caught up with them.

Well, it’s not purely limited to his performance in one game. He’s a highly skilled player on both sides of the ball. But we’ve seen in recent years guards shorter than 6’2 have virtually disappeared from NBA rosters because physically they just can’t compete. Shepperd does surpass that height threshold but he’s not a great athlete and I think unless you’re Steph curry or Kyrie Irving where the offensive skill level is elite, you need to be a very good athlete to compete as a smaller player in the nba.

Harry Garris wrote:

MemphisX wrote:

Harry Garris wrote:That performance from Sheppard was concerning, I get nerves from a freshman in his first tournament game, and the missed shots and lack of aggressiveness were pretty bad but not the main thing, it was that he just looked physically outmatched by dudes who in their own right are nowhere near the level of NBA level athletes.

I do think there's a baseline level of athletic competency you need to succeed in the NBA and despite the shooting ability and defensive BBIQ I'm not sure if Shepperd is over it.

Do not think that was it at all. Think the strategy of feeding the post was just dumb. Bogged their offense down. Plus, not starting their best players caught up with them.

Well, it’s not purely limited to his performance in one game. He’s a highly skilled player on both sides of the ball. But we’ve seen in recent years guards shorter than 6’2 have virtually disappeared from NBA rosters because physically they just can’t compete. Shepperd does surpass that height threshold but he’s not a great athlete and I think unless you’re Steph curry or Kyrie Irving where the offensive skill level is elite, you need to be a very good athlete to compete as a smaller player in the nba.

(Sheppard is 6'2" in shoes, but probably only 6'1" without shoes)

King Ken wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:

The Moose wrote:
I think center group is the strength of the class overall. Clingan, Edey, Flip, Ware, Holmes II, Sarr, Yang (if he declares) would all be in my top 20.

I think for the most part the international class has been overrated though (Topic and Yang are the only potential real gems for me in the international class).

I think overall the depth of the class is pretty good, above average even, just lacking in elite top end guys at perimeter positions

how? This class is starting to remind me of the underrated 2016 class that everyone claimed sucked. 2016 and 2024 are the two best international classes ever imo. 2016 had nearly 30 international kids and several standouts (Simmons, Hield, Poeltl, Sabonis, Siakam,
Zubac) Like 2024, the 2016 OAD were weaker but it was more than made up for by its international players.

Here's 20 guys likely to be drafted (assuming they come out) from the 2024 class

Sarr
Yang
Risacher
Topic
Salaun
George
Missi
Furphy
Ajinca
Klintman
Perrin
Ivisic
Nunez
Bona
Dadiet
Almansa
Chomche
da Silva
Mitchell
Larsson

For comparison's sake, past international classes' totals (not including Canada) with good players in brackets:

2020 = 14 (Avdija)

2021 = 17 (Giddey, Kuminga, Wagner)

2022 = 15 (Sochan)

2023 = 9 (Wembanyama, Coulibaly?)

I believe he meant, International by not playing in the NCAA. Half of the guys you listed play in the NCAAs.

if so he's wrong. That's not what international stands for in draft circles. It's where the player was born and grew up playing basketball. If it went by where a player played to acquire their NBA eligibility (post high school) then guys like Melo would be considered international because he played overseas and we know he wasn't. I think there's a distinction or gray area should a foreign born player that grew up overseas comes to the U.S. and plays high school basketball. Some might consider them still international but I wouldn't because they would have been exposed to American basketball, the AAU circuit and acclimated by the draft.