Can Rubio be an elite PG in the future?

[BrooklynBulls]

I was simply rebutting the idea that he was a BAD 3 point shooter.

[KWSN-Men]

I could see something like 12/11/4.5/2.5 with 1st or 2nd team All-Defense. Probably not the best player on a title caliber team, but maybe the most important.

Stockton is a name that hasn't been brought up much, that could be accurate. In game they're different (Stockton is smaller, a better shooter, less flashy, etc.), but in terms of stats breakdown and general contribution and level on both sides I could see Rubio around that level. He'll probably rely on the pick and roll as much, and will fit best if he ended up beside a modern day equivalent of Malone.

I'm not so sure on the Stockton comparison. Stockton was not only a much better shooter with much better range, but he was also a guy that could create his own shot against a set defense and get his own points against a set defense anytime he wanted to and against any defense or team. Rubio can't do that, at least not yet anyway.

[KWSN-Men]

I was simply rebutting the idea that he was a BAD 3 point shooter.

Got ya. Yeah, like I said it's not really fair all the people saying he's a Kidd type shooter. Kidd wasn't able to hit an open shot with decent regularity until the last couple of years and Rubio already isn't that bad at it. The problem is though that he still doesn't have very good shooting range. He doesn't really have NBA 3 point range. But then again most 18 year old prospects don't.

[SpeedyG]

I could see something like 12/11/4.5/2.5 with 1st or 2nd team All-Defense. Probably not the best player on a title caliber team, but maybe the most important.

Stockton numbers maybe. He's a name that hasn't been brought up much, that could be accurate. In game they're different (Stockton is smaller, a better shooter, less flashy, etc.), but in terms of stats breakdown and general contribution and level on both sides I could see Rubio around that level. He'll probably rely on the pick and roll as much, will play d like him, and like Stockton would find his most success as the complimentary PG setting up a scoring machine

12/11/4.5/2.5 would make him one of the ELITE players in the game. I think this is why people are starting to "hate" on Rubio, because of the severe overhyping of his fans. 11 Assists per game is a MAJOR MAJOR number for a PG. Paul has done it, Nash has done it, Stock and Thomas I believe has, same with Magic. Deron has gotten close, but haven't topped it. Same with Kidd. Gary Payton never reached it either. Now granted, I think assists are easier to get nowadays, but still, you can see that even the elite passing pgs of the past (and even now) found it difficult to top that number.

Then you add his steals average of 2.5 per, further putting him into that ELITE HOF standard. Stockton, one of the best pocket-picker from the position of Rubio, managed to crack 2.5 spg only five times out of his illustrious career. The Glove, another standout defensive PG, perhaps one of the best in the history of the game, only managed to crack 2.5 spg twice his entire career. How about Mo Cheeks, another top steal guy? He only managed over 2.5 spg three times his entire career. Even if we expand it to non-PGs, Pippen only did it 3 times, MJ did it six times.

Even 4.5 rebounds per game is on a high side for a PG (GP is a career 4 rpg guy, Isaiah 3.6, Penny in his prime was a 4-5 rebound per game guy).

As you see, each of these projections you made (except PPG) were all on the high side for his position, something even the elite players of the past had difficulty matching. To say that he'll not only reach those numbers, but also hit all three benchmark is a damn tall order for anyone.

[KWSN-Men]

I could see something like 12/11/4.5/2.5 with 1st or 2nd team All-Defense. Probably not the best player on a title caliber team, but maybe the most important.

Stockton numbers maybe. He's a name that hasn't been brought up much, that could be accurate. In game they're different (Stockton is smaller, a better shooter, less flashy, etc.), but in terms of stats breakdown and general contribution and level on both sides I could see Rubio around that level. He'll probably rely on the pick and roll as much, will play d like him, and like Stockton would find his most success as the complimentary PG setting up a scoring machine

12/11/4.5/2.5 would make him one of the ELITE players in the game. I think this is why people are starting to "hate" on Rubio, because of the severe overhyping of his fans. 11 Assists per game is a MAJOR MAJOR number for a PG. Paul has done it, Nash has done it, Stock and Thomas I believe has, same with Magic. Deron has gotten close, but haven't topped it. Same with Kidd. Gary Payton never reached it either. Now granted, I think assists are easier to get nowadays, but still, you can see that even the elite passing pgs of the past (and even now) found it difficult to top that number.

Then you add his steals average of 2.5 per, further putting him into that ELITE HOF standard. Stockton, one of the best pocket-picker from the position of Rubio, managed to crack 2.5 spg only five times out of his illustrious career. The Glove, another standout defensive PG, perhaps one of the best in the history of the game, only managed to crack 2.5 spg twice his entire career. How about Mo Cheeks, another top steal guy? He only managed over 2.5 spg three times his entire career. Even if we expand it to non-PGs, Pippen only did it 3 times, MJ did it six times.

Even 4.5 rebounds per game is on a high side for a PG (GP is a career 4 rpg guy, Isaiah 3.6, Penny in his prime was a 4-5 rebound per game guy).

As you see, each of these projections you made (except PPG) were all on the high side for his position, something even the elite players of the past had difficulty matching. To say that he'll not only reach those numbers, but also hit all three benchmark is a damn tall order for anyone.

If Rubio plays good minutes 11 assists would be no problem for him at all.

[Dr Positivity]

I don't think he'd get that much hype still because of his low scoring. I mean Deron gets near those assist numbers with 20ppg scoring and he still can't get onto an all-star team and gets no national respect

I don't think think 10apg or 11apg is a stretch for Rubio. At this stage as a PG prospect, there's very few who've shown the natural passing/court vision ability and potential he has. Probably the best pure passing prospect since Magic in terms of PGs. Not saying he will be a better passer than Nash and Stock, but as prospects and in terms of potential, sure, considering those guys weren't as elite in that area coming out of college as they were later in their careers

[Genjuro]

In Euroleague, he took 3 threes.

In the Euroleague there is not a chance in hell he could play a whole season and shoot 42.3% from 3 distance at this point in time. You are talking about 3 point shots in the ACB that are almost always wide open. In the Euroelague you almost never get a wide open 3 point shot.

The Euroleague is obviously better, but the ACB League level is a lot closer than you think. There's a nice amount of elite teams in Spain, and the weakest teams are not significantly worse than your worst Euroleague clubs (indeed I'm not sure any single ACB team was worse than, let's say, Union Olimpija).

For example, Joventut as a whole shot 36.6% from the arc in the ACB League, and 34.3% in the Euroleague.

[BrooklynBulls]

If Rubio plays good minutes 11 assists would be no problem for him at all.

No, that's not quite true. 11 assists is pretty much unmanageable on some teams, because of pace and ball-movement. If Rubio lands on a slow-paced team with a secondary playmaker on it, he won't have enough usage or possessions to get to that 11 assist mark, no matter what his court vision is.

[KWSN-Men]

In Euroleague, he took 3 threes.

In the Euroleague there is not a chance in hell he could play a whole season and shoot 42.3% from 3 distance at this point in time. You are talking about 3 point shots in the ACB that are almost always wide open. In the Euroelague you almost never get a wide open 3 point shot.

The Euroleague is obviously better, but the ACB League level is a lot closer than you think. There's a nice amount of elite teams in Spain, and the weakest teams are not significantly worse than your worst Euroleague clubs (indeed I'm not sure any single ACB team was worse than, let's say, Union Olimpija).

For example, Joventut as a whole shot 36.6% from the arc in the ACB League, and 34.3% in the Euroleague.

ACB fans are in general almost as arrogant as NBA fans about their league. I will leave at that.

[KWSN-Men]

If Rubio plays good minutes 11 assists would be no problem for him at all.

No, that's not quite true. 11 assists is pretty much unmanageable on some teams, because of pace and ball-movement. If Rubio lands on a slow-paced team with a secondary playmaker on it, he won't have enough usage or possessions to get to that 11 assist mark, no matter what his court vision is.

When I said good playing time, I was meaning starting minutes. Give Rubio 35-38 minutes on any NBA team and he will be able get 10-12 assists fairly consistently.

[ponder276]

I could see something like 12/11/4.5/2.5 with 1st or 2nd team All-Defense. Probably not the best player on a title caliber team, but maybe the most important.

Stockton numbers maybe. He's a name that hasn't been brought up much, that could be accurate. In game they're different (Stockton is smaller, a better shooter, less flashy, etc.), but in terms of stats breakdown and general contribution and level on both sides I could see Rubio around that level. He'll probably rely on the pick and roll as much, will play d like him, and like Stockton would find his most success as the complimentary PG setting up a scoring machine

12/11/4.5/2.5 would make him one of the ELITE players in the game. I think this is why people are starting to "hate" on Rubio, because of the severe overhyping of his fans. 11 Assists per game is a MAJOR MAJOR number for a PG. Paul has done it, Nash has done it, Stock and Thomas I believe has, same with Magic. Deron has gotten close, but haven't topped it. Same with Kidd. Gary Payton never reached it either. Now granted, I think assists are easier to get nowadays, but still, you can see that even the elite passing pgs of the past (and even now) found it difficult to top that number.

Then you add his steals average of 2.5 per, further putting him into that ELITE HOF standard. Stockton, one of the best pocket-picker from the position of Rubio, managed to crack 2.5 spg only five times out of his illustrious career. The Glove, another standout defensive PG, perhaps one of the best in the history of the game, only managed to crack 2.5 spg twice his entire career. How about Mo Cheeks, another top steal guy? He only managed over 2.5 spg three times his entire career. Even if we expand it to non-PGs, Pippen only did it 3 times, MJ did it six times.

Even 4.5 rebounds per game is on a high side for a PG (GP is a career 4 rpg guy, Isaiah 3.6, Penny in his prime was a 4-5 rebound per game guy).

As you see, each of these projections you made (except PPG) were all on the high side for his position, something even the elite players of the past had difficulty matching. To say that he'll not only reach those numbers, but also hit all three benchmark is a damn tall order for anyone.

If Rubio plays good minutes 11 assists would be no problem for him at all.

Here is the complete list of NBA players who have averaged 11+ APG more than once in the NBA (doing it for just one season is basically an outlier):
- John Stockton
- Magic Johnson
- Oscar Robertson (did it 3 times)
- Kevin Johnson (did it only twice)
- Chris Paul (has done it only twice so far)
- Steve Nash (did it 3 times)

And that's it, that's the complete list, throughout all of NBA history. And most of those guys barely made it - if you use the same criteria, but with 12+ APG (i.e. players who have had 2 or more seasons where they've averaged 12+ APG), the list is just John Stockton and Magic Johnson. If you think Rubio, or any prospect for that matter, can average 11+ APG "no problem," then you're nuts.

[miltk]

Is this like a Lopez thing? Realistically, Robin should have stayed another year, but I think he left because his brother left.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Kwsn: Those Euro Bigs not only wouldn't make an NBA team, they wouldn't survive the scrrimages.

That is GOD horrible defense. God horrible. I can defend Rubio better then anyone in their league.

Not because I'm more athletic or more skilled. Basketball TECHNQIUE. Technique baby, a fundamentally sound big is gonna have a good career. Or in Duncan's case, you can become a lock for the HOF.

Fundamentals make a talented player, ten times better then a purely athletic player. This is why Rodney Carney, even though he's an athlete has no fundamentals.

Euro Bigs have trouble closing out. Euro Guards have trouble keeping themselves between the ball and their man.

I think you mean he'd average 11 dimes if he got 30 minutes in EUROPE.

[Dr Positivity]

That is GOD horrible defense. God horrible. I can defend Rubio better then anyone in their league.

talkbasket's head just pulled a Scanners

[KWSN-Men]

Here is the complete list of NBA players who have averaged 11+ APG more than once in the NBA (doing it for just one season is basically an outlier):
- John Stockton
- Magic Johnson
- Oscar Robertson (did it 3 times)
- Kevin Johnson (did it only twice)
- Chris Paul (has done it only twice so far)
- Steve Nash (did it 3 times)

And that's it, that's the complete list, throughout all of NBA history. And most of those guys barely made it - if you use the same criteria, but with 12+ APG (i.e. players who have had 2 or more seasons where they've averaged 12+ APG), the list is just John Stockton and Magic Johnson. If you think Rubio, or any prospect for that matter, can average 11+ APG "no problem," then you're nuts.

Other than Magic, none of them has Rubio's level of court vision.

[EddieJonesFan]

He can't. Not with his lack of athleticism, shooting. Without the Athleticism or the shooting, is a worse scenario then Andre Miller. At least Miller was a crafty player that knew how to get to spots and outspeed ya at the right moment.

Ricky Rubio is a T.J Ford European Clone.

Lawson and Maynor are better prospects. Just as good playmakers, and have shot 47(Lawson) and 36(Maynor) percent from beyond the arc.

Same is true with Rubio.

Kidd's athleticism has been sapped by knee injuries yet he still stays effective despite not being much more than a spot up shooter.

[KWSN-Men]

Kwsn: Those Euro Bigs not only wouldn't make an NBA team, they wouldn't survive the scrrimages.

That is GOD horrible defense. God horrible. I can defend Rubio better then anyone in their league.

Not because I'm more athletic or more skilled. Basketball TECHNQIUE. Technique baby, a fundamentally sound big is gonna have a good career. Or in Duncan's case, you can become a lock for the HOF.

Fundamentals make a talented player, ten times better then a purely athletic player. This is why Rodney Carney, even though he's an athlete has no fundamentals.

Euro Bigs have trouble closing out. Euro Guards have trouble keeping themselves between the ball and their man.

I think you mean he'd average 11 dimes if he got 30 minutes in EUROPE.

Until you learn the difference between the ACB league of SPAIN, and "Europe", there is no point in even bothering to discuss this with you. And I guess someone forgot to inform you that it is MUCH HARDER to get assists in "Europe" than in the NBA. Basic basketball facts 101.

There has never been a player that ever existed that could average 11 assists in 30 minutes in the Euroleague. Magic would not even come close to it. Not by a long shot.

[Hendrix]

If Chris Paul is considered elite, then no I don't think so. But I think he could be on that 2nd level with Billups, Tony Parker etc...

A lot of the people I've talked to that think he'll be a bust seem like they've never watched a single game of his. Just the feeling I get, but not all of them. He has his faults like his J, and shooting off the dribble. But every single player in the history of the game had weakness's when they were 18yo. I mean he should be in high school.

[sorokii]

Ricky Rubio is a T.J Ford European Clone.

Worst comparison ever. TJ style has nothing to do with Ricky´s. Totally different.

I respect their opinions i just don't know why people doubt him as much he did prove himself in the European Leagues. Its not much different then the NCAA college levels.

It is a lot, actually. But Euroleague and ACB Spanish league are way better than NCAA, not the opposite.

Can Rubio be an elite PG in the future? Of course he has tools. His IQ is off the charts, maybe the best I´ve ever seen in a prospect. Also he has some flaws, and he will need to adjust his game, and needs to land in the right team, and... There are a lot of conditions, but if he does everything right, he could be an Allstar PG for years. We´ll see if he makes it or not.

About the 11APG thing, once again, he is capable, but if he is playing with Mbenga or other crappy players of course he wont do it, as well as if he plays for Memphis, with OJ Mayo and Gay he is not going to touch enough ball to make 11 dimes, although it would be great for those chuckers.

[mr.ankle]

For all the people here that keep saying NCAA is = to or > Spain's top division and/or the Euroleague, Doug Gottlieb who played NCAA basketball and also played in Russia was asked about this. Mind you when he played in the NCAA it was a lot better than it is now and when he played in Russia it was a lot worse than it is now. And Spain and the Euroelague are definitely better than Russian League.

Anyway, he basically said anyone saying that has no idea what they are talking about and that the level of the ACB is far above the level of the NCAA and that it should not even be compared. But yet we keep seeing on these boards people say that the NCAA is as good or even better.

If that is the case then how come College produces better NBA talent than the Euroleague ?