Kyrie Irving

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Re: Kyrie Irving 

Post#21 » by #1 pick » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:06 pm

ManualRam wrote:
#1 pick wrote:
ManualRam wrote:yep, my bad, bibby was a soph.
but i disagree on the whole QB/PG analogy. the NBA PG position is not nearly as complicated as the NFL QB position.
why cant a PG with a high bball IQ, solid skills AND good athleticism buy time as well?

The jump from HS PG to college is HUGE. Three times that of any other position in college basketball outside of Center. It's twice that in the NBA and most NBA PG's can play. You need to be mentally on your game as well as consistent because if your not, you will be liability to running your team. It's a tough position to transition to the league when your ready, but when you lack the experience of a couple of years in running a team, it will hamper your potential earnings and your career. I liken William Avery from Duke as well as Mike Conley as two talented PG's who could have been great if they stayed a year or two longer in college. The NBA is not a place to learn. If your not a slashing super skilled and athletic PG (Wall, Rose) you will struggle because you have so many responsibilities that you have under your belt. I think the PG position is the toughest in basketball aside from Center. The Center position is like the QB position in terms of impact. If you have a true elite center, you can always have a legit chance to win a title. The problem is, all the great potential prospects leave too soon and we never have great center prospects because of that. Everyone thinks their ready when in reality, they might be ready for the league but not for stardom and some not even ready for the league (Jordan(LAC), Mullens(OKC)).

Experience is very important for a PG and Center. To be honest, these two positions are the PG's of the court. They can be your best passer and play-makers and have substantial impact on your team success.


whole lotta words that dont mean much to me.
irving is intelligent, skilled, has great instincts and is a GOOD athlete. hes no slouch in that department. he just patterns his game after CP3 so his game involves plenty of changes in speed and direction...but make no mistake, he's a blur in the open court and extremely shifty.
he also has a very sneaky first step, aided by the fact that he is already a threat from the outside.
he's as complete a prep PG as i've seen in a while.
if he has a good season, he will go pro and he will be top 5. doesnt matter what your theories are.
i dunno why you keep ignoring the fact that players arent drafted just for their rookie seasons.

lastly, your notion that the NBA is not a place to learn is absolutely ridiculous.

His game is more like Jay Williams than CP3. The difference is Irving is actually a PG while Williams was an undersized SG who had to learn to be a PG. I think your believing in his skills way too much. The mental aspect is the issue, simple as that. It's too much of a transition for a freshman PG who is a play-maker without elite athleticism to make an impact as a rookie.

He can go pro all day, it's his life. I'm not ignoring the fact, leaving as FR. will hamper him and he will not live up to his draft status. I gave you examples, you have yet to give me one. I've stated a number of times he's talented. I do not see where your going with the this.
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Re: Kyrie Irving 

Post#22 » by ManualRam » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:39 pm

#1 pick wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
#1 pick wrote:The jump from HS PG to college is HUGE. Three times that of any other position in college basketball outside of Center. It's twice that in the NBA and most NBA PG's can play. You need to be mentally on your game as well as consistent because if your not, you will be liability to running your team. It's a tough position to transition to the league when your ready, but when you lack the experience of a couple of years in running a team, it will hamper your potential earnings and your career. I liken William Avery from Duke as well as Mike Conley as two talented PG's who could have been great if they stayed a year or two longer in college. The NBA is not a place to learn. If your not a slashing super skilled and athletic PG (Wall, Rose) you will struggle because you have so many responsibilities that you have under your belt. I think the PG position is the toughest in basketball aside from Center. The Center position is like the QB position in terms of impact. If you have a true elite center, you can always have a legit chance to win a title. The problem is, all the great potential prospects leave too soon and we never have great center prospects because of that. Everyone thinks their ready when in reality, they might be ready for the league but not for stardom and some not even ready for the league (Jordan(LAC), Mullens(OKC)).

Experience is very important for a PG and Center. To be honest, these two positions are the PG's of the court. They can be your best passer and play-makers and have substantial impact on your team success.


whole lotta words that dont mean much to me.
irving is intelligent, skilled, has great instincts and is a GOOD athlete. hes no slouch in that department. he just patterns his game after CP3 so his game involves plenty of changes in speed and direction...but make no mistake, he's a blur in the open court and extremely shifty.
he also has a very sneaky first step, aided by the fact that he is already a threat from the outside.
he's as complete a prep PG as i've seen in a while.
if he has a good season, he will go pro and he will be top 5. doesnt matter what your theories are.
i dunno why you keep ignoring the fact that players arent drafted just for their rookie seasons.

lastly, your notion that the NBA is not a place to learn is absolutely ridiculous.

His game is more like Jay Williams than CP3. The difference is Irving is actually a PG while Williams was an undersized SG who had to learn to be a PG. I think your believing in his skills way too much. The mental aspect is the issue, simple as that. It's too much of a transition for a freshman PG who is a play-maker without elite athleticism to make an impact as a rookie.

He can go pro all day, it's his life. I'm not ignoring the fact, leaving as FR. will hamper him and he will not live up to his draft status. I gave you examples, you have yet to give me one. I've stated a number of times he's talented. I do not see where your going with the this.


wrong again. he doesnt play like jay williams did at all.
he MODELS his game after cp3.
how are you gonna say he's more like jay will than cp3, then list their difference being that jay will was a SG and kyrie was a PG? isnt that a pretty significant difference?
tell me, what glaring weaknesses does kyrie have?
IMO, unlike most freshman PGs, you cant point to any aspect of his game offensively and say "he really needs to work on that."
how will playing in the NBA after his freshman yr hamper him? do you truly believe that players cant learn in the NBA?? lol


i just dont subscribe to your notion that young, raw, super athletic PGs can enjoy immediate success, while athletic, skilled, intelligent and instinctual PGs cannot. given the nature of the position, your argument is counter-intuitive.
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Re: Kyrie Irving 

Post#23 » by #1 pick » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:27 pm

ManualRam wrote:

wrong again. he doesnt play like jay williams did at all.
he MODELS his game after cp3.
how are you gonna say he's more like jay will than cp3, then list their difference being that jay will was a SG and kyrie was a PG? isnt that a pretty significant difference?
tell me, what glaring weaknesses does kyrie have?
IMO, unlike most freshman PGs, you cant point to any aspect of his game offensively and say "he really needs to work on that."
how will playing in the NBA after his freshman yr hamper him? do you truly believe that players cant learn in the NBA?? lol


i just dont subscribe to your notion that young, raw, super athletic PGs can enjoy immediate success, while athletic, skilled, intelligent and instinctual PGs cannot. given the nature of the position, your argument is counter-intuitive.

Once Jay learned how to play PG, him and Kyrie were similar. Jay was a much better as a player than Kyrie and twice the athlete. Kyrie understands pace and controls the game as well as makes the BEST possible decision. That's where they differ. Everyone, even Jay see similarities between the two. I will do this for you. Once January(mid-season) starts, I will do a writeup on Kyrie, full of strengths and weaknesses. Just for you. If you understood the differences in positions than you will understand what all I've wrote. I played at a high level and broke down abilities to the zenith.
His game doesn't model CP3, I do not know why you keep saying that. Whatever, believe what you want.
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Re: Kyrie Irving 

Post#24 » by ManualRam » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:54 pm

#1 pick wrote:
ManualRam wrote:

wrong again. he doesnt play like jay williams did at all.
he MODELS his game after cp3.
how are you gonna say he's more like jay will than cp3, then list their difference being that jay will was a SG and kyrie was a PG? isnt that a pretty significant difference?
tell me, what glaring weaknesses does kyrie have?
IMO, unlike most freshman PGs, you cant point to any aspect of his game offensively and say "he really needs to work on that."
how will playing in the NBA after his freshman yr hamper him? do you truly believe that players cant learn in the NBA?? lol


i just dont subscribe to your notion that young, raw, super athletic PGs can enjoy immediate success, while athletic, skilled, intelligent and instinctual PGs cannot. given the nature of the position, your argument is counter-intuitive.

Once Jay learned how to play PG, him and Kyrie were similar. Jay was a much better as a player than Kyrie and twice the athlete. Kyrie understands pace and controls the game as well as makes the BEST possible decision. That's where they differ. Everyone, even Jay see similarities between the two. I will do this for you. Once January(mid-season) starts, I will do a writeup on Kyrie, full of strengths and weaknesses. Just for you. If you understood the differences in positions than you will understand what all I've wrote. I played at a high level and broke down abilities to the zenith.
His game doesn't model CP3, I do not know why you keep saying that. Whatever, believe what you want.


so at the same stage jay will played like a SG, kyrie played like a PG, but somehow they are similar? ok.
everyone sees the similarities b/t he and jay? i dont
jay was super athletic, powerful scoring 1 who relied on his incredible 1st step to get by his man.
jay had more similarities to d-rose than kyrie.
you said it yourself, at the same stage he was more of a 2 than a 1.
i see more similarities in CP3, who kyrie HIMSELF has said he patterns his game after. the overall smoothness of the game, the change in direction and speeds, the sneaky first step, the court vision, etc.
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Re: Kyrie Irving 

Post#25 » by #1 pick » Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:38 am

ManualRam wrote:
#1 pick wrote:
ManualRam wrote:

wrong again. he doesnt play like jay williams did at all.
he MODELS his game after cp3.
how are you gonna say he's more like jay will than cp3, then list their difference being that jay will was a SG and kyrie was a PG? isnt that a pretty significant difference?
tell me, what glaring weaknesses does kyrie have?
IMO, unlike most freshman PGs, you cant point to any aspect of his game offensively and say "he really needs to work on that."
how will playing in the NBA after his freshman yr hamper him? do you truly believe that players cant learn in the NBA?? lol


i just dont subscribe to your notion that young, raw, super athletic PGs can enjoy immediate success, while athletic, skilled, intelligent and instinctual PGs cannot. given the nature of the position, your argument is counter-intuitive.

Once Jay learned how to play PG, him and Kyrie were similar. Jay was a much better as a player than Kyrie and twice the athlete. Kyrie understands pace and controls the game as well as makes the BEST possible decision. That's where they differ. Everyone, even Jay see similarities between the two. I will do this for you. Once January(mid-season) starts, I will do a writeup on Kyrie, full of strengths and weaknesses. Just for you. If you understood the differences in positions than you will understand what all I've wrote. I played at a high level and broke down abilities to the zenith.
His game doesn't model CP3, I do not know why you keep saying that. Whatever, believe what you want.


so at the same stage jay will played like a SG, kyrie played like a PG, but somehow they are similar? ok.
everyone sees the similarities b/t he and jay? i dont
jay was super athletic, powerful scoring 1 who relied on his incredible 1st step to get by his man.
jay had more similarities to d-rose than kyrie.
you said it yourself, at the same stage he was more of a 2 than a 1.
i see more similarities in CP3, who kyrie HIMSELF has said he patterns his game after. the overall smoothness of the game, the change in direction and speeds, the sneaky first step, the court vision, etc.

There's more to CP3 then that at that level and even he needed two seasons. I agree, I think Kyrie will be a great player, just not after one college season. He needs two. I will post back in January about Kyrie.

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