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Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless

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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#81 » by dagger » Sat Jun 9, 2012 5:57 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:
BillyGM wrote:
JamesNaismith wrote:LOL funny that Ariza was the guy Harkless reminded me of with more toughness but I didn't wanna jump the gun. Probably why I'm not a fan of drafting him...I can't think of a better comparison or see one..yet.

But I was watching Draft Combine live stream and I saw him shoot lights out even from 3pt range while guys like Quincy were shooting bricks.


Ariza was a decent 3pt shooter at one point as well with the Lakers and Magic.

As for mentioning Quincy, that's cool....the difference is one guy is projected at the end of the 1st rd to 2nd rd and the other were discussing with our EIGHTH pick overall. I think we should hold a much higher standard to the top 10 pick right?!


Maybe so, but only if you form your opinion based on media mock drafts. Who's to say they have a clue?
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#82 » by CTG » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:11 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:LOL funny that Ariza was the guy Harkless reminded me of with more toughness but I didn't wanna jump the gun. Probably why I'm not a fan of drafting him...I can't think of a better comparison or see one..yet.

Kinda reminds me of a young artest
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#83 » by Marlo Stanfield » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:14 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:LOL funny that Ariza was the guy Harkless reminded me of with more toughness but I didn't wanna jump the gun. Probably why I'm not a fan of drafting him...I can't think of a better comparison or see one..yet.


The guy you're forgetting is Paul George :wink: Harkless and George are eerily similar all the way down to the jumpshots, he just never got to show it playing the PF spot at St. Johns. The biggest difference is that George had 4 inches more on his standing reach while Harkless has a larger wingspan (which makes no sense to me unless George had extra long fingernails). Also, don't sleep on Harkless' defense because St. Johns went zone a lot, he didn't really get to showcase that wingspan and athletic ability defensively.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#84 » by BillyGM » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:16 pm

So would be great to get both Lamb and Harkless if possible. I think there's a way to package Ed Davis + 2nd round picks for 15-20 pick.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#85 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:33 pm

Man there are a lot of hybrid forwards in this draft. He looks like a fabulous small forward on offence. He contorts his body every which way to get the ball in the hoop. Efficient scorer. Has a good stroke too. BC needs 2 picks one for a SF with upside like Harkless and the other to ensure a BPA selection. I think the decisions get easier with 2 picks rather than one. Never mind who we already have on the roster a great draft would be Lillard/Harkless or Sullinger/Harkless. They can still give Casey his veterans but it would be crazy no to net a couple players early in this draft. I know BC is keeping the 8th but can he now use assets or cap space to net another high pick? C'mon! The same logic for keeping the 8th would apply to acquiring another high pick.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#86 » by BillyGM » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:37 pm

If we get Lillard/Lamb/PJ3/Waiters at 8 I wouldn't mind trading 2nd round picks + Ed Davis for 15-20 pick where we could easily pick Quincy Miller or Moe Harkless both freshman SF.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#87 » by Marlo Stanfield » Sat Jun 9, 2012 6:55 pm

Comparing Harkless' defense, all while playing out of position, with the 3 of the best rebounder defenders in this draft, Anthony Davis, MKG and T-Rob AND PAUL GEORGE (in his final year at Fresno St.):

OFFENSIVELY

% of teams Offensive Rebounds
T-Rob - 25.2%
Davis - 24.4%
Harkless - 22%
MKG - 21.1%
George - 18.2%

% of teams Defensive Rebounds
T-Rob - 34.3%
Davis - 27.7%
Harkless - 27%
George - 23.2%
MKG - 18.1%

% of teams rebounds (total)
T-Rob - 31.5%
Davis - 26.7%
Harkless - 25.2%
George - 21.6%
MKG - 19.1%

% of teams blocked shots
Davis - 54.1%
Harkless - 37.8%
George - 19.1%
T-Rob - 15.3%
MKG - 10.8%

% of teams steals
George - 27.9%
Davis - 22.3%
Harkless - 22%
MKG - 16.1%
T-Rob - 14.7%

DEFENSIVELY - vs. George & MKG

% of total team points
George - 25.3%
Harkless - 23.3%
MKG - 15.4%

% of total team FG
Harkless - 23.7%
George - 23.4%
MKG - 14.5%

% of team 3P
George - 28.2%
Harkless - 17.1%
MKG - 8.6%

% of team FT
George - 21.5%
MKG - 20.5%
Harkless - 19.5%

I understand that Kentucky was a stacked team, but to be in the same realm as Davis and MKG defensively is impressive nonetheless. Also, those block and steal percentages really make me think Paul George. It shows that Moe (even while playing a majority zone), was still very active defensively. The only category George beats Harkless in defensively is steals.

Statistics - George vs. Harkless

MPG
Harkless - 36.1
George - 33.2

PPG
Harkless - 15.5
George - 16.8

RPG
Harkless - 8.6
George - 7.2

APG
Harkless - 1.5
George - 3.0

SPG
Harkless - 1.6
George - 2.2

BPG
Harkless - 1.4
George - 0.8

FG%
Harkless - 45.2%
George - 42.4%

3P%
Harkless - 21.5%
George - 35.3%

Measurements - George vs. Harkless

Height w/o shoes:
Harkless - 6'7".25
George - 6'7".75

Height w. shoes:
Harkless - 6'8".75
George - 6'8".75

Weight:
Harkless - 207
George - 214

Wingspan:
Harkless - 7'0"
George - 6'11".25

Standing Reach:
Harkless - 8'7".5
George - 8'11"

Body fat %:
Harkless - 5.3
George - 5.0
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#88 » by BillyGM » Sat Jun 9, 2012 7:22 pm

As we're aiming for SF:
1. Harrison Barnes
2. Michael Kidd Gilchrist
-gap-
3. Moe Harkless
-gap-
4. Quincy Miller
I'm not ranking Terrence and Perry Jones as they're currently PF's and haven't prooved their ability to play SF.

Would love to grab Harkless or Miller and develope one of them.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#89 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Jun 9, 2012 7:25 pm

Blasphemy wrote:Moe Harkless = Paul George

wouldn't mind him at all, looks like a good prospect with great potential at the 3!


Paul George's standout skill is 3pt shooting, which is probably Harkless' biggest weakness, so not a lot of sense in comparing them. Harkless plays more like Wilson Chandler
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Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#90 » by RapsFanInOhio » Sat Jun 9, 2012 7:36 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Blasphemy wrote:Moe Harkless = Paul George

wouldn't mind him at all, looks like a good prospect with great potential at the 3!


Paul George's standout skill is 3pt shooting, which is probably Harkless' biggest weakness, so not a lot of sense in comparing them. Harkless plays more like Wilson Chandler

That's a good comparison.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#91 » by Dr Positivity » Sat Jun 9, 2012 7:52 pm

Harkless would be exactly like the Demar and Ed picks. Has athleticism/length, but not really at a "enough to dominate competition level". Can finish some plays but isn't a go to player in offensive skill. He should be a solid player but I'm not seeing why I should be that excited about his upside, especially considering he clearly has a high risk level (in that he could be the 300th semi athletic SF who's skill level restricts him to 7th man). He's not a freak athletically. He's long and has some smoothness. Maybe he's one of the 25-30 most physically gifted SFs in the league. There's a lot of them. He's no PJIII type of potential freak. He's not more physically gifted than Julian Wright and Thaddeus Young where in the 2007 draft for example. Maybe this pick ending up the same way Young's did for Philly is what I could see as a best case scenario for us and Wright's as the worst case. He could be as good as MKG but that's because MKG in the top 5 could be a god awful pick if he's just Ronnie Brewer. Nothing against Brewer or good role players, but because they can be gotten in other players, using a top 5 pick on one is a disaster. Sometimes I wonder if teams mix up "undeveloped" with "upside". Harkless may be undeveloped to the point where he can add new dimensions to his game more than players like Lamb and Sullinger, but does that mean he has more upside? Upside from the perspective of a team is different than how far a prospect can move up. I hope we're not the team that thinks Harkless can be the next Paul George at #10 pick just because he's a semi unproven athletic guy. It's obviously not as simple as saying Harkless is young and athletic and George was young and athletic so Harkless can be George. Paul George in college played way way more like Jeremy Lamb than Moe Harkless. He was a miss because people thought ok college stats meant he was raw, which he wasn't. Paul George was a 91% FT shooter in college which indicates "shooting freak", even if 35% from 3 didn't stand out (it was on a small sample size and he did 45% his freshman year).

And Harkless doesn't even fit on our team. Just because he plays SF doesn't mean he fits a need. A Demar, JJ, Harkless SG/SF rotation is a mess. I would go as far to say that restricting it only to "fit", I think bringing Lamb off the bench at SG and then rolling with him and Demar at SG/SF "fits" better than Demar and Harkless

Harkless to me is a solid pick if you're the Boston Celtics with picks 21 and 22 and he's still there. They can bring in an athletic Pierce backup who can also log some PF minutes. If we like him we might as well trade down or see what it'd take to make that Houston 14/16 trade. At 8th I have no reason to be excited about this pick. We're the last type of team that should be concerned about taking an athletic role player top 10, if we're not trying to get any semblence of a star player in this draft, when will we?
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#92 » by Marlo Stanfield » Sat Jun 9, 2012 9:12 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Blasphemy wrote:Moe Harkless = Paul George

wouldn't mind him at all, looks like a good prospect with great potential at the 3!


Paul George's standout skill is 3pt shooting, which is probably Harkless' biggest weakness, so not a lot of sense in comparing them. Harkless plays more like Wilson Chandler


The Wilson Chandler comparison is far-fetched. The Paul George comparison is much closer for everything outside of the 3 point shot.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#93 » by JamesNaismith » Sat Jun 9, 2012 9:51 pm

Marlo Stanfield wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:
Blasphemy wrote:Moe Harkless = Paul George

wouldn't mind him at all, looks like a good prospect with great potential at the 3!


Paul George's standout skill is 3pt shooting, which is probably Harkless' biggest weakness, so not a lot of sense in comparing them. Harkless plays more like Wilson Chandler


The Wilson Chandler comparison is far-fetched. The Paul George comparison is much closer for everything outside of the 3 point shot.


George is also a better athlete.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#94 » by Marlo Stanfield » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:51 am

JamesNaismith wrote:
Marlo Stanfield wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:
Paul George's standout skill is 3pt shooting, which is probably Harkless' biggest weakness, so not a lot of sense in comparing them. Harkless plays more like Wilson Chandler


The Wilson Chandler comparison is far-fetched. The Paul George comparison is much closer for everything outside of the 3 point shot.


George is also a better athlete.


I agree on that, but he doesn't really use it in his game. George prefers to play on the perimeter than take it to the rim. I think Harkless is going to surprise people just like George did kind of coming out of no where.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#95 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:51 pm

And Harkless doesn't even fit on our team. Just because he plays SF doesn't mean he fits a need. A Demar, JJ, Harkless SG/SF rotation is a mess. I would go as far to say that restricting it only to "fit", I think bringing Lamb off the bench at SG and then rolling with him and Demar at SG/SF "fits" better than Demar and Harkless


Harkless is a solid long term pick. At this point JJ seems to be the perfect player to back up Bargs. Ed deserves better than to do that somewhere else. I'd rather they think a few moves ahead than where Harkless at 19 will step in and contribute immediately to our 20+ win team.

I would do that 10th and Okafor cap space deal. With that deal we would still have the MLE and Augustin comes to mind. I'd play for the risk of Lamb's talent added to Mo's upside. I think that has better potential than one Lillard.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#96 » by HEKTOR » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:57 am

Heard good things about this kid...
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#97 » by Choker » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:31 pm

Disclaimer, I'm looking at Harkless as a potential first/second option down the road, because that's what it will convince me as to why we should look at this guy.

And there may be reason to suggest he could be, although the evidence is scant. I have never seen a single minute of Harkless beyond videos provided in this thread but NBAdraft reports that he has a quick first step, comfortable handles and footwork. All those three things point to a player that could possibly draw a lot of fouls, massively important for future key players. However I don't like his jumpshot no matter how many people say the mechanics are good. They are, but his form is limited to set jump shots rather than off the dribble, which would limit his ability as a first option.

Now my big question is, of course, his work ethic. He has tools which I like, but how well he's going to refine them is the key question. from what dalek has been preaching he's supposedly a mature and good leader, although that doesn't really speak much about his work ethic.

If he's a hard worker I would be very convinced of grabbing Moe Harkless. An offensive player that can draw a lot of fouls is always going to be a commodity in this league. Look at Corey Maggette, it's the only reason why he's still in this league. And there seems to be no question about his motor and physical tools.
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Re: Raptors NBA Draft Thread: Moe Harkless 

Post#98 » by BillyGM » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:51 pm

HEKTOR wrote:Heard good things about this kid...

And that means that you want him as our 8th pick?
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