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Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23)

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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#501 » by S ID » Fri May 19, 2017 9:23 pm

https://www.thescore.com/news/1303531

A cool little tid-bit.
Pac-12 players lead the All-NBA team with 4 and the SEC second with 3. No players from the ACC.
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#502 » by SOUL » Fri May 19, 2017 10:08 pm

Sup dudes, some of you guys were entertained by a write-up I a did a little over a year ago for a Raptors/Magic game thread, thought I'd drop my new mock draft over here: http://thedoublescreen.com/words/2017/5/16/2017-to-kill-a-mock-draft.

It's meant to be lighthearted and not too serious, but still tried to fit players on teams that make sense. Some NSFW humor and gif heavy as well. Enjoy!
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#503 » by BoyzNTheHood » Sat May 20, 2017 12:12 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
McGregFan wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:I really like bell if his shot can be fixed. He's defense is good and his athleticism is nice too. Is also say he's underrated as a passer. If he's a 4 I'm fine with it if he's a 5 I'll pass.


With the way the league is going 4s that cant stretch the floor are going to be forced to play the 5

Yeah which is why I'd avoid him if he can't shoot. I like his defensive potential but the risk would be more acceptable in the 2nd round. Bell is too small to be a center maybe small ball sometimes.

He shot the 3 a little at Oregon. The potential for him to develop that shot is definitely there. I wouldn't pass on him if that was my only concern.
deeps6x wrote:I guarantee you that (Jaylen) Brown and (Kris) Dunn are drafted OUT of the top 5.
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#504 » by CoachJReturns » Sat May 20, 2017 2:00 am

Just a note regarding Bell who's getting a lot of mention now.

He is another Siakam. He blocks more shots, but other than that he doesn't do anything Siakam doesn't. Siakam already has shown some 3 point shooting potential in the D league and is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
I'm not saying Bell is bad, but I cant see him being the pick when he's similar to a guy we drafted in a similar range just last year. Yes you take BPA but Bell would have to clearly be above the other guys on the board and he isn't. There's about a dozen guys who are all at a similar level as prospects. It just doesn't make sense to take him. I think the guys we've seen so far like Lydon and Leaf are indicating the direction the team is going this draft year. They want more 3 point shooting which is clearly lacking among the young guys on the team.
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Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#505 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 20, 2017 2:09 am

CoachJReturns wrote:Just a note regarding Bell who's getting a lot of mention now.

He is another Siakam. He blocks more shots, but other than that he doesn't do anything Siakam doesn't. Siakam already has shown some 3 point shooting potential in the D league and is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
I'm not saying Bell is bad, but I cant see him being the pick when he's similar to a guy we drafted in a similar range just last year. Yes you take BPA but Bell would have to clearly be above the other guys on the board and he isn't. There's about a dozen guys who are all at a similar level as prospects. It just doesn't make sense to take him. I think the guys we've seen so far like Lydon and Leaf are indicating the direction the team is going this draft year. They want more 3 point shooting which is clearly lacking among the young guys on the team.

No that's good point pretty similar to Siakam. Less wingspan too. Im still in the camp of needing a wing. But if there's a good PF there then why not.
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Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#506 » by CoachJReturns » Sat May 20, 2017 2:29 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:Just a note regarding Bell who's getting a lot of mention now.

He is another Siakam. He blocks more shots, but other than that he doesn't do anything Siakam doesn't. Siakam already has shown some 3 point shooting potential in the D league and is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
I'm not saying Bell is bad, but I cant see him being the pick when he's similar to a guy we drafted in a similar range just last year. Yes you take BPA but Bell would have to clearly be above the other guys on the board and he isn't. There's about a dozen guys who are all at a similar level as prospects. It just doesn't make sense to take him. I think the guys we've seen so far like Lydon and Leaf are indicating the direction the team is going this draft year. They want more 3 point shooting which is clearly lacking among the young guys on the team.

No that's good point pretty similar to Siakam. Less wingspan too. Im still in the camp of needing a wing. But if there's a good PF there then why not.

There is a need for a wing, but the type of wing we need isn't really in this draft. We need a two way guy with size and athleticism. Frankly the options available are pretty mediocre which isn't surprising as those types of players are hard to come by. I want Diablo strictly for his athleticism because this team is stuck on a treadmill(no matter how good of one it may be) and they need star talent to move forward. Unfortunately I think Masai is perfectly content with hia job security and this teams roster which will make the playoffs as a non contender for a few more years. He'll draft for fit/need and safe players rather than look for any diamonds in the ruff. This team is playing everything safe now and for a long time.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#507 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 20, 2017 2:50 am

CoachJReturns wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:Just a note regarding Bell who's getting a lot of mention now.

He is another Siakam. He blocks more shots, but other than that he doesn't do anything Siakam doesn't. Siakam already has shown some 3 point shooting potential in the D league and is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
I'm not saying Bell is bad, but I cant see him being the pick when he's similar to a guy we drafted in a similar range just last year. Yes you take BPA but Bell would have to clearly be above the other guys on the board and he isn't. There's about a dozen guys who are all at a similar level as prospects. It just doesn't make sense to take him. I think the guys we've seen so far like Lydon and Leaf are indicating the direction the team is going this draft year. They want more 3 point shooting which is clearly lacking among the young guys on the team.

No that's good point pretty similar to Siakam. Less wingspan too. Im still in the camp of needing a wing. But if there's a good PF there then why not.

There is a need for a wing, but the type of wing we need isn't really in this draft. We need a two way guy with size and athleticism. Frankly the options available are pretty mediocre which isn't surprising as those types of players are hard to come by. I want Diablo strictly for his athleticism because this team is stuck on a treadmill(no matter how good of one it may be) and they need star talent to move forward. Unfortunately I think Masai is perfectly content with hia job security and this teams roster which will make the playoffs as a non contender for a few more years. He'll draft for fit/need and safe players rather than look for any diamonds in the ruff. This team is playing everything safe now and for a long time.

I agree that the wing talent is less than stunning. Ferguson would be nice if he dropped. I'm pretty sure Diallo is gone before us. I don't agree with you on Masai being content tho. His picks have generally been good but we can't really afford to gamble every year. I also believe Masai on what he said about taking the team to the next level. I still trust the dude.
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Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#508 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sat May 20, 2017 3:08 am

CoachJReturns wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:Just a note regarding Bell who's getting a lot of mention now.

He is another Siakam. He blocks more shots, but other than that he doesn't do anything Siakam doesn't. Siakam already has shown some 3 point shooting potential in the D league and is quick enough to guard multiple positions.
I'm not saying Bell is bad, but I cant see him being the pick when he's similar to a guy we drafted in a similar range just last year. Yes you take BPA but Bell would have to clearly be above the other guys on the board and he isn't. There's about a dozen guys who are all at a similar level as prospects. It just doesn't make sense to take him. I think the guys we've seen so far like Lydon and Leaf are indicating the direction the team is going this draft year. They want more 3 point shooting which is clearly lacking among the young guys on the team.

No that's good point pretty similar to Siakam. Less wingspan too. Im still in the camp of needing a wing. But if there's a good PF there then why not.

There is a need for a wing, but the type of wing we need isn't really in this draft. We need a two way guy with size and athleticism. Frankly the options available are pretty mediocre which isn't surprising as those types of players are hard to come by. I want Diablo strictly for his athleticism because this team is stuck on a treadmill(no matter how good of one it may be) and they need star talent to move forward. Unfortunately I think Masai is perfectly content with hia job security and this teams roster which will make the playoffs as a non contender for a few more years. He'll draft for fit/need and safe players rather than look for any diamonds in the ruff. This team is playing everything safe now and for a long time.


Dunno man the treadmill thing is a cliche. We have some serious players but we play a shtty brand of basketball. We are slow. We are guard centric. We do not find the open man. We do not get certain players involved and they are starting to say f-it and feel their contributions are on hold. When was the last time we hit the cutter? Biz in last year's playoffs. Before that Amir. I agree going Diallo is a sort of break the mold step. I can also see the argument for Ferguson also for some extreme athleticism. I can also see the argument for smart frightfully solid players like Leaf and Hartenstein. These four are 19 although I think Leaf turned 20. Anyone we get is going to 905 and as long as Casey fumbles around that is a good thing. I am not at all sure about Ibaka but him coming back consolidates the asset. Hope he is an asset. Big post bruisers that really just hall in boards is a waste. Leaf can really put the ball on floor and we need more diversity. Our guys needs to defer.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#509 » by CoachJReturns » Sat May 20, 2017 4:38 am

HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:No that's good point pretty similar to Siakam. Less wingspan too. Im still in the camp of needing a wing. But if there's a good PF there then why not.

There is a need for a wing, but the type of wing we need isn't really in this draft. We need a two way guy with size and athleticism. Frankly the options available are pretty mediocre which isn't surprising as those types of players are hard to come by. I want Diablo strictly for his athleticism because this team is stuck on a treadmill(no matter how good of one it may be) and they need star talent to move forward. Unfortunately I think Masai is perfectly content with hia job security and this teams roster which will make the playoffs as a non contender for a few more years. He'll draft for fit/need and safe players rather than look for any diamonds in the ruff. This team is playing everything safe now and for a long time.

I agree that the wing talent is less than stunning. Ferguson would be nice if he dropped. I'm pretty sure Diallo is gone before us. I don't agree with you on Masai being content tho. His picks have generally been good but we can't really afford to gamble every year. I also believe Masai on what he said about taking the team to the next level. I still trust the dude.

I think most still trust him. He's presided over the first extended run of winning seasons in the teams history, so he's done plenty to earn it.
I gave up on him when he said that cap about culture reset with the same 3 core guys. It's just salesmanship if Casey DeMar and Kyle are all here. I just stopped watching the team after the first pathetic couple efforts against Milwaukee and have a much lower opinion of the team than most.
When I say it's a treadmill I say it in the truest sense. The team is staying in place. It has little room to improve if any to take a step forward and management refuses to take a step back. The team peaked. It's going to stay put for a while and then slowly decline as most good teams do. It's not the end of the world, but for someone who doesn't find the team's brand of bball exciting to begin with, which will remain the same next year because veteran players and coaches will stick to what they know, it's not worth getting excited about.
I guess I'm the old, cynical guy on the board now. Lol. So be it.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#510 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 20, 2017 6:27 am

CoachJReturns wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:There is a need for a wing, but the type of wing we need isn't really in this draft. We need a two way guy with size and athleticism. Frankly the options available are pretty mediocre which isn't surprising as those types of players are hard to come by. I want Diablo strictly for his athleticism because this team is stuck on a treadmill(no matter how good of one it may be) and they need star talent to move forward. Unfortunately I think Masai is perfectly content with hia job security and this teams roster which will make the playoffs as a non contender for a few more years. He'll draft for fit/need and safe players rather than look for any diamonds in the ruff. This team is playing everything safe now and for a long time.

I agree that the wing talent is less than stunning. Ferguson would be nice if he dropped. I'm pretty sure Diallo is gone before us. I don't agree with you on Masai being content tho. His picks have generally been good but we can't really afford to gamble every year. I also believe Masai on what he said about taking the team to the next level. I still trust the dude.

I think most still trust him. He's presided over the first extended run of winning seasons in the teams history, so he's done plenty to earn it.
I gave up on him when he said that cap about culture reset with the same 3 core guys. It's just salesmanship if Casey DeMar and Kyle are all here. I just stopped watching the team after the first pathetic couple efforts against Milwaukee and have a much lower opinion of the team than most.
When I say it's a treadmill I say it in the truest sense. The team is staying in place. It has little room to improve if any to take a step forward and management refuses to take a step back. The team peaked. It's going to stay put for a while and then slowly decline as most good teams do. It's not the end of the world, but for someone who doesn't find the team's brand of bball exciting to begin with, which will remain the same next year because veteran players and coaches will stick to what they know, it's not worth getting excited about.
I guess I'm the old, cynical guy on the board now. Lol. So be it.

I mean there's a cap on how good we can get with the talent we have. We're not winning a ring because we don't have the talent/luck. Talent being the biggest thing if you look back the last 20 30 years or so. Only the 2004 Pistons have won a ring without a top 20 all time player. And they were possibly the greatest defensive team of all time.

I don't like the term treadmilling because it assumes too much. You never know how the dice roll these next couple of years. Maybe we pull something off or maybe not. It's just about enjoying the ride for me. This core won't last forever we will eventually be a terrible team again might as well enjoy it while we can.

At the end of the day this is all just entertainment if you're not enjoying it maybe it's best to take a step back and look into something else. We might get lucky and pull something off (Imagine if we got Ben Simmons last year). But until then not much to do but hope. Sorry for the rant kinda drunk rn but it's how I feel about this boards aggressive ring or bust mentality.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#511 » by OAKLEY_2 » Sat May 20, 2017 12:13 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
I don't like the term treadmilling because it assumes too much. You never know how the dice roll these next couple of years. Maybe we pull something off or maybe not. It's just about enjoying the ride for me. This core won't last forever we will eventually be a terrible team again might as well enjoy it while we can.

At the end of the day this is all just entertainment if you're not enjoying it maybe it's best to take a step back and look into something else. We might get lucky and pull something off (Imagine if we got Ben Simmons last year). But until then not much to do but hope. Sorry for the rant kinda drunk rn but it's how I feel about this boards aggressive ring or bust mentality.


Like the rant. Rants are good. If our young players get to develop and do not get parked behind stand still role vets who knows if the ceiling could be pushed upwards. Saying we are doomed with certainty has comedic value one has to admit. The real treadmill is playing players like Joseph, Carroll and JV as significant pieces. That is the smoking gun secondary fail and the primary fail is our guard centric ISO crap. Talent is the last refuge for those clinging to desperate arguments.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#512 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 20, 2017 2:39 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:
CoachJReturns wrote:


Like the rant. Rants are good. If our young players get to develop and do not get parked behind stand still role vets who knows if the ceiling could be pushed upwards. Saying we are doomed with certainty has comedic value one has to admit. The real treadmill is playing players like Joseph, Carroll and JV as significant pieces. That is the smoking gun secondary fail and the primary fail is our guard centric ISO crap. Talent is the last refuge for those clinging to desperate arguments.

Definitely I think we've gotten better at developming our talent and Masai said it was gonna be a huge focus because it's tough to get outside players. Casey has gotten better about playing our young guys too. And the 905 is a great tool to have.

In terms of development we are in a good place. I'd like to see more Powell , Delon, Poetl and maybe Siakam next season. I'd rather we be like the Spurs and play everyone. I wouldn't mind losing more in the regular season more if it meant more chances for our young guys.
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#513 » by McGregFan » Sat May 20, 2017 2:55 pm

What if we were to tank and build a new core in 5-6 years that still has a 2nd/3rd round ceiling attached to it? Would that have been a successful rebuild? After doing some research i've come to the conclusion that there's so much luck involved in building a championship team it's actually crazy.

IMO we just need to draft well wherever we draft and do a better job at developing and letting these young guys play. We already saw delon,norm,jakob,pascal(to an extent) produce in their limited roles. I know, "blah blah blah i don't want role players". More than half of the players that get picked in the lottery are going to end up becoming role players too *shrugs*
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#514 » by RaptorsLife » Sat May 20, 2017 3:07 pm

McGregFan wrote:What if we were to tank and build a new core in 5-6 years that still has a 2nd/3rd round ceiling attached to it? Would that have been a successful rebuild? After doing some research i've come to the conclusion that there's so much luck involved in building a championship team it's actually crazy.

IMO we just need to draft well wherever we draft and do a better job at developing and letting these young guys play. We already saw delon,norm,jakob,pascal(to an extent) produce in their limited roles. I know, "blah blah blah i don't want role players". More than half of the players that get picked in the lottery are going to end up becoming role players too *shrugs*

There is only 2 spots in the finals

Celtics
Bucks
Lakers
Sixers
Sun's
Kings
nuggets
Timberwokves
Pelicans
Utah
Orlando
The 2nd and 3rd celing will happend to alot teams some might not even make get that far

That's not even factoring any super teams that are created that actually win championship or kawhi leonard
Let's go Raptors
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#515 » by McGregFan » Sat May 20, 2017 3:09 pm

What we CAN control is our style of play and actually playing some entertaining team basketball while winning games
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#516 » by RaptorsLife » Sat May 20, 2017 3:29 pm

I can't wait for summer league. Pascal siakam is gonna absoulte dominate like he did in the d league. He improved so much this year
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#517 » by LJKO » Sat May 20, 2017 3:36 pm

RaptorsLife wrote:I can't wait for summer league. Pascal siakam is gonna absoulte dominate like he did in the d league. He improved so much this year

Was he in the NBA last year? if I remember correctly the last time I saw him he was still a rookie in his 1st season :lol: :roll:; Anyways I would like to get back Amir in the offseason if we could :nod:
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#518 » by CoachJReturns » Sat May 20, 2017 4:06 pm

HeadtopChunes wrote:
OAKLEY_2 wrote:
HeadtopChunes wrote:


Like the rant. Rants are good. If our young players get to develop and do not get parked behind stand still role vets who knows if the ceiling could be pushed upwards. Saying we are doomed with certainty has comedic value one has to admit. The real treadmill is playing players like Joseph, Carroll and JV as significant pieces. That is the smoking gun secondary fail and the primary fail is our guard centric ISO crap. Talent is the last refuge for those clinging to desperate arguments.

Definitely I think we've gotten better at developming our talent and Masai said it was gonna be a huge focus because it's tough to get outside players. Casey has gotten better about playing our young guys too. And the 905 is a great tool to have.

In terms of development we are in a good place. I'd like to see more Powell , Delon, Poetl and maybe Siakam next season. I'd rather we be like the Spurs and play everyone. I wouldn't mind losing more in the regular season more if it meant more chances for our young guys.

At a minimum I'd need to see a new coach, which won't even happen, to have faith in the development of the prospects. Powell still struggles to get minutes and is an NBA caliber player and one of the few guys who doesn't get scared once the playoffs begin. He's a competitor.
Drafting well and developing well are always key, but so far I've seen us draft okay and develop okay. That's not enough to make this team significantly better. It'll just keep them fairly competitive longer. I may sound like I'm speaking as if I have a crystal ball, but I think most people who watch the game know this team is kind of stuck at the moment because many teams have been here before. There's honestly nothing wrong with being the same team for a long time if fans are enjoying it and most probably are. I though really am not. I enjoy talking with you guys about the team more than I enjoy watching the games these days. lol. But anyway...
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Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#519 » by CoachJReturns » Sat May 20, 2017 4:10 pm

McGregFan wrote:What if we were to tank and build a new core in 5-6 years that still has a 2nd/3rd round ceiling attached to it? Would that have been a successful rebuild? After doing some research i've come to the conclusion that there's so much luck involved in building a championship team it's actually crazy.

IMO we just need to draft well wherever we draft and do a better job at developing and letting these young guys play. We already saw delon,norm,jakob,pascal(to an extent) produce in their limited roles. I know, "blah blah blah i don't want role players". More than half of the players that get picked in the lottery are going to end up becoming role players too *shrugs*

Luck is always a factor. There have been teams that did everything right only to somehow lose a hall of fame caliber prospect.
Len Bias, Penny Hardaway, Greg Oden. Luck will always be a part of becoming a great team. Draft well and hope for the best, though frankly I'm still on the fence about Masai's drafting which I think is good but not special. Worse is Casey who won't play the young guys when the veterans fail to even show up in playoff games. There's no excuse for not giving Norm more burn. Even if he plays the same position as our lifer DeMar, you play him and up his value around the league. He's perhaps the best available asset on the team.
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Re: RE: Re: Snapbacks and Handshakes: The 2017 Draft (Raps pick #23) 

Post#520 » by HeadtopChunes » Sat May 20, 2017 4:16 pm

CoachJReturns wrote:
McGregFan wrote:What if we were to tank and build a new core in 5-6 years that still has a 2nd/3rd round ceiling attached to it? Would that have been a successful rebuild? After doing some research i've come to the conclusion that there's so much luck involved in building a championship team it's actually crazy.

IMO we just need to draft well wherever we draft and do a better job at developing and letting these young guys play. We already saw delon,norm,jakob,pascal(to an extent) produce in their limited roles. I know, "blah blah blah i don't want role players". More than half of the players that get picked in the lottery are going to end up becoming role players too *shrugs*

Luck is always a factor. There have been teams that did everything right only to somehow lose a hall of fame caliber prospect.
Len Bias, Penny Hardaway, Greg Oden. Luck will always be a part of becoming a great team. Draft well and hope for the best, though frankly I'm still on the fence about Masai's drafting which I think is good but not special. Worse is Casey who won't play the young guys when the veterans fail to even show up in playoff games. There's no excuse for not giving Norm more burn. Even if he plays the same position as our lifer DeMar, you play him and up his value around the league. He's perhaps the best available asset on the team.

Yep Norm should start next season. He's undersized but it's not really as big a problem as it's made out to be. Plus our team looked best with him starting. Pascal I like but until his shot gets better he's kinda stuck as a PF Biyombo. Still can't put the ball on the floor and score and his not good from 3 yet. I've actually liked what I've seen from Bruno so far. Might crack a rotation some day as a backup PF. His Defense looks NBA ready and he shot 40% on NBA 3s in the DL. If he can fix his confidence we should be good to go.

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