OAKLEY_2 wrote:Scase wrote:OAKLEY_2 wrote:
In the NBA needs and gets are not always related. That is why somebody coined the phrase "best player available".
BPA makes sense when you
need to make a choice, if we are in a rebuild, we don't
need to take on mediocre returns.
People freaked when Fred left for 42 a pop. I would have preferred a mediocre return than net zero.
We weren't rebuilding at that point, and FVV is way more valuable than either Brown/GTJ. Different situation entirely. Normally I would agree with you, but if the intent is to bottom out, that's our best route, if Masai wants to make more win now moves this off season, then yeah trading those 2 for mediocre returns is likely what he'll do.
OAKLEY_2 wrote:Scase wrote:islandboy53 wrote:
A couple of things. Hope you find them useful.
An over the cap team can use TPEs and its MLE to trade for players without taking matching salary back. Toronto could currently bring back salaries, up to $10 million for Siakam's TPE, and up to $13 million for the NTMLE. Not enough for a large salary, but still useful.
Brown can be traded without bringing back $23 million in matching salary, as long as the trade doesn't take the receiving team over the 1st apron.. A team like Houston, for example, only needs to send back $15.5 million. Jeff Green and Tate cover that, allowing Toronto to create a $6+ million TPE. OKC could take Brown entirely into space, creating a $23 million TPE. Trent, assuming he signs at $18.5, only needs $11 million coming back, so Ingles $11 million expiring works fine, and creates a $7.5 million TPE. In each case, Toronto would receive some draft capital, obviously, to make the deal happen. So, draft assets, TPEs, and players who can themselves be moved on for something else, and extra space under the tax line to maneuver with in future moves.
June 29th is the deadline to pick up Brown's option. It can be exercised any time prior to that, for example on June 26th to facilitate a draft weekend trade.
Well yeah, there are options but they have to make sense. OKC/HOU has basically zero reason to take brown on. Ingles has a team option as well, so why would they trade an expiring for an expiring AND give us draft capital? So yeah sure, you could technically make all these trades, but they have no basis in reality. You could trade 40ish mil worth in salary and get Lebron, but why would the lakers do it.
Having 10 different TPEs also doesn't help when you can only use one per season. There is a point where you are making trades just for the sake of making trades.
Gonna stick by my one year of Brown plus TPE pick is better than 4 years of Gary at Brown money. Look what Kelly got paid.
I'd rather neither personally lol.
islandboy53 wrote:Scase wrote:islandboy53 wrote:
A couple of things. Hope you find them useful.
An over the cap team can use TPEs and its MLE to trade for players without taking matching salary back. Toronto could currently bring back salaries, up to $10 million for Siakam's TPE, and up to $13 million for the NTMLE. Not enough for a large salary, but still useful.
Brown can be traded without bringing back $23 million in matching salary, as long as the trade doesn't take the receiving team over the 1st apron.. A team like Houston, for example, only needs to send back $15.5 million. Jeff Green and Tate cover that, allowing Toronto to create a $6+ million TPE. OKC could take Brown entirely into space, creating a $23 million TPE. Trent, assuming he signs at $18.5, only needs $11 million coming back, so Ingles $11 million expiring works fine, and creates a $7.5 million TPE. In each case, Toronto would receive some draft capital, obviously, to make the deal happen. So, draft assets, TPEs, and players who can themselves be moved on for something else, and extra space under the tax line to maneuver with in future moves.
June 29th is the deadline to pick up Brown's option. It can be exercised any time prior to that, for example on June 26th to facilitate a draft weekend trade.
Well yeah, there are options but they have to make sense. OKC/HOU has basically zero reason to take brown on. Ingles has a team option as well, so why would they trade an expiring for an expiring AND give us draft capital? So yeah sure, you could technically make all these trades, but they have no basis in reality. You could trade 40ish mil worth in salary and get Lebron, but why would the lakers do it.
OKC or Houston would acquire Brown because he's a useful player who can provide many things their young teams need, even though he hasn't really shown it during his time here. Also, he's also an expiring salary which is large enough to be the basis for matching salary in a larger trade. These trades are entirely realistic, but Im not saying they're likely. They are presented to help you understand possibilities. At the same time, in the Trent to Orlando scenario presented, Trent would be signed and traded, so he'd be on at least a 3 year deal. Orlando would be trading Ingles, still playable at 37 but clearly nearing the end, for a young veteran who fills a significant need - shooting. Again, it's a realistic scenario which may or may not happen presented to show you that trades don't need to bring back fully matching salaries.
Having 10 different TPEs also doesn't help when you can only use one per season.
TPEs expire after a year, but there is no limit on the number them a team can use in a season. Washington, for example, has 7 TPEs currently on the books and used 2 of them already this year. Also, a cap space team must waive all existing TPEs and cannot generate new ones.
There is a point where you are making trades just for the sake of making trades.
That's generally a bad plan, I agree. However, if you don't intend to retain Trent, for example, getting some assets back in a sign and trade makes sense. Similarly, with a player like Brown, who we know from the trade deadline just past has value, it makes more sense to get that value rather than letting him walk.
Fair enough on the examples of use, I appreciate the extra context. As for the TPE usage, thanks for the clarification as well, I think I may have misread that they can only use a TPE for a single MOVE, and not a single one per season. I am relatively ignorant when it comes to CBA/cap stuff.
As for Trent, I think a S&T is extremely unlikely, on top of the fact that his value in general is super low, as evidenced by the complete lack of trade talks with him over the last couple years. If we can send him out and not take back any salary and maybe some low picks, sure, I'm on board with that. But, he's not getting us back any useful players.
As for Brown, the ideal time was to trade him last year, I think his value is a lot lower than people think, much like Siakam. He's got value in theory, in practice, it doesn't seem as though he does. The Knicks (I think it was you who mentioned it before) offer of a pick in 2024 was the extent of his value, and if Masai wasn't willing to take that back, I don't see how he's got any genuine value. Remains to be seen though.