RealGM

CazOnReal wrote:

Rapsfan07 wrote:

CazOnReal wrote:Rob is quite literally the worst fit amongst the consensus "Top 6" of this draft. At least with Topic, you're getting a 6'6 guard who has defensive potential.

Small, negative defender guards generally don't pan out unless they're a 0.1% athlete a la Fox. And we really don't need more bad defenders on the team.

Yeah but Topic also can't shoot, though I guess if someone has confidence that he could learn, he would be worth the swing. I expect the Spurs to consider him heavily as well. Sheppard too.

The one thing I will give Topic is that he's shooting 88% from the line so that is a point in favor of him growing into at least an average NBA shooter. I'm more concerned about his defense/engagement when it comes to his defensive assignments.

I still think that, among the Top 6 if we had our shot at anyone but Sarr - say we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and we don't trade down with the Spurs to get our own pick back for example - it should be Zach though there is some recency bias to this (Though I do feel it's worth pointing out that Risacher's slump coincides with a return from a facial injury). Holland is another good option but honestly, outside of Castle and Sarr (and Rob but for the opposite) I don't have very strong feelings about the Top 6.

Topic has better feel and high level productivity during his 18 y/o year than any player in the draft has or had with a better basketball resume as well. The basketball world has never seen as proficient and productive an ISO scorer at years 17 & 18 as Topic.

Holland is more suited to be an off-ball wing who attacks shifted defenses off the bounce and shoots open corner 3's but his shooting is a massive swing skill that will make or break him as either a highly desirable two-way role playing wing or a guy who is more suited to be an energy bench wing on a winning team. I don't trust him as a shooter but he's a rare mold of athletic two-way wing w/ good dimensions so he should still be seen as a relatively desirable investment.

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:

CazOnReal wrote:

Rapsfan07 wrote:
Yeah but Topic also can't shoot, though I guess if someone has confidence that he could learn, he would be worth the swing. I expect the Spurs to consider him heavily as well. Sheppard too.

The one thing I will give Topic is that he's shooting 88% from the line so that is a point in favor of him growing into at least an average NBA shooter. I'm more concerned about his defense/engagement when it comes to his defensive assignments.

I still think that, among the Top 6 if we had our shot at anyone but Sarr - say we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and we don't trade down with the Spurs to get our own pick back for example - it should be Zach though there is some recency bias to this (Though I do feel it's worth pointing out that Risacher's slump coincides with a return from a facial injury). Holland is another good option but honestly, outside of Castle and Sarr (and Rob but for the opposite) I don't have very strong feelings about the Top 6.

Topic has better feel and high level productivity during his 18 y/o year than any player in the draft has or had with a better basketball resume as well. The basketball world has never seen as proficient and productive an ISO scorer at years 17 & 18 as Topic.

Holland is more suited to be an off-ball wing who attacks shifted defenses off the bounce and shoots open corner 3's but his shooting is a massive swing skill that will make or break him as either a highly desirable two-way role playing wing or a guy who is more suited to be an energy bench wing on a winning team. I don't trust him as a shooter but he's a rare mold of athletic two-way wing w/ good dimensions so he should still be seen as a relatively desirable investment.

My thoughts exactly.

If Holland can shoot even 36% on moderate volume, he could be the best player in this draft. I see a Jaylen Brown kind of player here if he pans out. He's my pick for #6 if we keep it. Hopefully he's still on the board or we move up.

Coco Costanza wrote:Am I alone in thinking Topic has a strange body? It's like all his height is in his neck.

Yeah that's been a point of contention for Topic being as tall as he is i.e. where his "height" comes from but i'm not really sure I understand the reasoning behind it.

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:Topic has better feel and high level productivity during his 18 y/o year than any player in the draft has or had with a better basketball resume as well. The basketball world has never seen as proficient and productive an ISO scorer at years 17 & 18 as Topic.

I'm pretty sure Luka was more productive at the same age...

Holland is more suited to be an off-ball wing who attacks shifted defenses off the bounce and shoots open corner 3's but his shooting is a massive swing skill that will make or break him as either a highly desirable two-way role playing wing or a guy who is more suited to be an energy bench wing on a winning team. I don't trust him as a shooter but he's a rare mold of athletic two-way wing w/ good dimensions so he should still be seen as a relatively desirable investment.

The overlapping skills with Holland and RJ is why i'm sort of indifferent to him. He's clearly a more athletic player than Barrett but while RJ's 3-point shooting as a Raptor comes with a limited sample size, his overall shot selection and scoring in general has been on an upwards trajectory. You generally know what you're getting in an RJ Raptors game whereas Ron is that overused "A boat's a boat but..." meme. I'd still take him over the guards in the Top 6 aside from maybe Castle but I do question the fit in the long-term. Like you said if the shooting pans out then that changes a lot.

If IQ wasn't on this team I'd absolutely be all over Dillingham. Guy is pure hooper and the highest offensive scoring potential in the draft

Rapsfan07 wrote:

REJECTEDBYCLARK wrote:

CazOnReal wrote:The one thing I will give Topic is that he's shooting 88% from the line so that is a point in favor of him growing into at least an average NBA shooter. I'm more concerned about his defense/engagement when it comes to his defensive assignments.

I still think that, among the Top 6 if we had our shot at anyone but Sarr - say we end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick and we don't trade down with the Spurs to get our own pick back for example - it should be Zach though there is some recency bias to this (Though I do feel it's worth pointing out that Risacher's slump coincides with a return from a facial injury). Holland is another good option but honestly, outside of Castle and Sarr (and Rob but for the opposite) I don't have very strong feelings about the Top 6.

Topic has better feel and high level productivity during his 18 y/o year than any player in the draft has or had with a better basketball resume as well. The basketball world has never seen as proficient and productive an ISO scorer at years 17 & 18 as Topic.

Holland is more suited to be an off-ball wing who attacks shifted defenses off the bounce and shoots open corner 3's but his shooting is a massive swing skill that will make or break him as either a highly desirable two-way role playing wing or a guy who is more suited to be an energy bench wing on a winning team. I don't trust him as a shooter but he's a rare mold of athletic two-way wing w/ good dimensions so he should still be seen as a relatively desirable investment.

My thoughts exactly.

If Holland can shoot even 36% on moderate volume, he could be the best player in this draft. I see a Jaylen Brown kind of player here if he pans out. He's my pick for #6 if we keep it. Hopefully he's still on the board or we move up.

I definitely wouldn't move up for Holland, he's just as uncoordinated of a driver as OG only that he has craftier finishes and is quicker getting the ball on the floor and getting to the rim - but the tunnel vision and recklessness is the same. Then if you expect him to be a scorer his shot form is just really questionable and while he has a diverse bag it's not very polished. He's more of a PF who was thrust into a wing scoring role w/ Ignite but you can see how it's just not his game. So he has to not only work on refining his bag but also his shooting and his balance while driving which might not even be correctable. He's just plain raw as a wing scorer but is more comfortable as an athletic scrapper.

CazOnReal wrote:I'm pretty sure Luka was more productive at the same age...

Luka played in Euroleague so it's hard to say what that would have translated to in terms of Adriatic league play but given his numbers it's safe to say he likely still wouldn't have reached the level of isolation volume and efficiency that Topic has. There was a chart made on Topic's isolation plays this year and TS% on them and no 18 year old in recent history comes close to him. Non-ISO is a different story.

God Squad wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:

God Squad wrote:Why do you consider Mcain the "Best PG possible"? When his archetype is that of Trent Jr, Clarkson, and every other small shooter. I see very little actual "point guard" skills. I may need to dive into more film, but I've seen nothing other than age that suggests he's the best PG available.

I've been stuck on Carter vs Mcain all year, I just don't know. I've seen others mention Collier, but I'd rather have one of Carter or Mcain.

I'm not making a statement based on his actual game, but McCain was on a team with at least one PG in Roach and really 2 in Proctor, so it's conceivable he could look like a passable PG like Quickley, in time. Low turnover rate really the only sign to point to, but he wouldn't be the first NBA PG who had to play 2 guard in college and turned out to be about average as a distributor.

That's all true sort of, but what makes him better than Devin Carter? I'm fully aware that McCain is the better shooter of C&S and creation, but Devin has him beaten all around. Better defender, a better passer, better athletically and a better rebounder.

I feel like if anyone liked Podz last year, then Carter should also be high on peoples board.

I really, really like Carter too, I just like McCain's fit & upside offensively a bit more.

Of course I see all the same things everyone else does with DC. He just looks like a winning player along the lines of guys like Podz, DWhite and Jasquez. I'm sure by me saying that will make anyone who reads it think all the more reason to draft him instead lol. Again I get it, I don't think the team would be wrong in taking him and I'd be perfectly fine/happy with them doing so. My only slight concern is that he only has a single season shooting at a decent (not elite) clip, he had 2 seasons shooting UNDER 30%. While he does seem to "play bigger" than his height, I do have a little concern his shooting numbers may drop again against better competition in the NBA. I know his game isn't reliant on his shooting & has really good versatility but that can't be forgotten.

While I think DC would fit nicely, could even maybe play him alongside IQ here & there....I just think McCain makes for pretty much easy replication of IQ's skillset so the team can run the same sets and wouldn't have to switch up their style of play much. McCain is an ELITE shooter with a quick release that is without question very valuable in today's game. I just think he'd keep the floor more open for Scottie & RJ and given his added strength but similar skillset and again quicker release, I wouldn't be surprised if in time he pushed IQ for the starting spot. IQ really needs to set his feet, has a fairly wide stance and needs a bit more time/space to get his shot off, McCain it flies out, obv NOT the level of Steph but when you can shoot over 41% and there's little time to respond it just does have a gravity on the defence...then combine that with Gradey, it could be lights out. But overall I could see McCain making IQ more dispensable to upgrade the roster at other positions down the line or act as a good piece himself in a larger trade.

But again I'll be really happy with drafting either guy, it's just a matter of preference I guess.

PhilBlackson wrote:

God Squad wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:
I'm not making a statement based on his actual game, but McCain was on a team with at least one PG in Roach and really 2 in Proctor, so it's conceivable he could look like a passable PG like Quickley, in time. Low turnover rate really the only sign to point to, but he wouldn't be the first NBA PG who had to play 2 guard in college and turned out to be about average as a distributor.

That's all true sort of, but what makes him better than Devin Carter? I'm fully aware that McCain is the better shooter of C&S and creation, but Devin has him beaten all around. Better defender, a better passer, better athletically and a better rebounder.

I feel like if anyone liked Podz last year, then Carter should also be high on peoples board.

I really, really like Carter too, I just like McCain's fit & upside offensively a bit more.

Of course I see all the same things everyone else does with DC. He just looks like a winning player along the lines of guys like Podz, DWhite and Jasquez. I'm sure by me saying that will make anyone who reads it think all the more reason to draft him instead lol. Again I get it, I don't think the team would be wrong in taking him and I'd be perfectly fine/happy with them doing so. My only slight concern is that he only has a single season shooting at a decent (not elite) clip, he had 2 seasons shooting UNDER 30%. While he does seem to "play bigger" than his height, I do have a little concern his shooting numbers may drop again against better competition in the NBA. I know his game isn't reliant on his shooting & has really good versatility but that can't be forgotten.

While I think DC would fit nicely, could even maybe play him alongside IQ here & there....I just think McCain makes for pretty much easy replication of IQ's skillset so the team can run the same sets and wouldn't have to switch up their style of play much. McCain is an ELITE shooter with a quick release that is without question very valuable in today's game. I just think he'd keep the floor more open for Scottie & RJ and given his added strength but similar skillset and again quicker release, I wouldn't be surprised if in time he pushed IQ for the starting spot. IQ really needs to set his feet, has a fairly wide stance and needs a bit more time/space to get his shot off, McCain it flies out, obv NOT the level of Steph but when you can shoot over 41% and there's little time to respond it just does have a gravity on the defence...then combine that with Gradey, it could be lights out. But overall I could see McCain making IQ more dispensable to upgrade the roster at other positions down the line or act as a good piece himself in a larger trade.

But again I'll be really happy with drafting either guy, it's just a matter of preference I guess.

I support McCain over Carter as I buy into his shooting and decision-making a ton more despite the tradeoff on the defensive end. His game is pretty straightforward but I think he has room to improve as a rebounder and playmaker in the NBA, all the while being closer to the top of the 3PA/36 leaderboards. Great locker room presence as well. Only other 2x California GPOTY were Mobley and Jrue which is nice company.

They're both NBA players IMO.

CazOnReal wrote:

Coco Costanza wrote:Am I alone in thinking Topic has a strange body? It's like all his height is in his neck.

Yeah that's been a point of contention for Topic being as tall as he is i.e. where his "height" comes from but i'm not really sure I understand the reasoning behind it.

I just find him unusual because his legs are short, making him look shorter than 6 foot 6.

9 days fellars

If Holland or Sarr aren't available I would go with McCain at 6th. He has the overall scoring package and despite the size I think he can figure out the combo guard position and eventually be a high end starter.



The above the break shooting and ability to score as the ball handler in the pick and roll would be immediate improvements over what Gary gives us. This is something McCain could bring off the bench instead of as a starter. He has a pretty high AST% for his role at 10% and that's more than enough as a secondary ball handler in our second unit. We will have Barrett, IQ, or most likely Barnes as the play initator for the second unit.

Thaddy wrote:If Holland or Sarr aren't available I would go with McCain at 6th. He has the overall scoring package and despite the size I think he can figure out the combo guard position and eventually be a high end starter.

Watch on YouTube

The above the break shooting and ability to score as the ball handler in the pick and roll would be immediate improvements over what Gary gives us. This is something McCain could bring off the bench instead of as a starter. He has a pretty high AST% for his role at 10% and that's more than enough as a secondary ball handler in our second unit. We will have Barrett, IQ, or most likely Barnes as the play initator for the second unit.

McCain at 6 is an absurd reach when he's likely available with the Pacers 1st we have.

Syd-TK3 wrote:If IQ wasn't on this team I'd absolutely be all over Dillingham. Guy is pure hooper and the highest offensive scoring potential in the draft

Id still draft him and bring him off the bench. We need a back up PG(monk style) and he could close for us down the stretch.

I think he'd be our best iso guy and closer

CazOnReal wrote:McCain at 6 is an absurd reach when he's likely available with the Pacers 1st we have.

The difference between him and the others in the 3-14 range isn't much. He has a floor of being a good shooter that can be a secondary ball handler. He's a few inches bigger and much heavier than Dillingham and Reed. The transition shooting is going to make him a nightmare on a team with athletic defensive players. He was in the 92nd percentile in college for transition scoring because his above the break 3 is so deadly. As a back up point guard or combo guard that replaces Trent Jr he would be immediately useful and playable. By being playable he can develop in a potential winning environment.

Thaddy wrote:

MainEvent wrote:

Psubs wrote:
If he' grows another inch, he could be a Blake Griffin kind of PF.

Maybe I missed the clips.. PPL keep saying Salaun is a crazy athlete but I haven't really seen it in his highlights.
Good athlete but def not anywhere close to Griffin

Drafting for size, length, athleticism, and feel should be the priority for us rather than drafting win now talent. Salaun seems to lack feel. The mid range shot he took in game that hit the top of the backboard was really concerning. It's one play but it shows how low his floor is. Since the draft is very weak I could see Masai making that reach at 6.

Not at 6. I did see this take online that was saying Castle and Holland do not project to be even average shooters in the association. Now Kawhi had no shot from distance and went 15th. I wouldn't take Salaun at 6 and doubt Masai would go Bruno reach at 6. I would take Cody Williams. I would take Clingan. I would take Topic. I probably would take Castle.

CazOnReal wrote:

Thaddy wrote:If Holland or Sarr aren't available I would go with McCain at 6th. He has the overall scoring package and despite the size I think he can figure out the combo guard position and eventually be a high end starter.

Watch on YouTube

The above the break shooting and ability to score as the ball handler in the pick and roll would be immediate improvements over what Gary gives us. This is something McCain could bring off the bench instead of as a starter. He has a pretty high AST% for his role at 10% and that's more than enough as a secondary ball handler in our second unit. We will have Barrett, IQ, or most likely Barnes as the play initator for the second unit.

McCain at 6 is an absurd reach when he's likely available with the Pacers 1st we have.

I bet he is not available at Pacers but yeah waste of a 6th or better pick.

PhilBlackson wrote:

God Squad wrote:

Ell Curry wrote:
I'm not making a statement based on his actual game, but McCain was on a team with at least one PG in Roach and really 2 in Proctor, so it's conceivable he could look like a passable PG like Quickley, in time. Low turnover rate really the only sign to point to, but he wouldn't be the first NBA PG who had to play 2 guard in college and turned out to be about average as a distributor.

That's all true sort of, but what makes him better than Devin Carter? I'm fully aware that McCain is the better shooter of C&S and creation, but Devin has him beaten all around. Better defender, a better passer, better athletically and a better rebounder.

I feel like if anyone liked Podz last year, then Carter should also be high on peoples board.

I really, really like Carter too, I just like McCain's fit & upside offensively a bit more.

Of course I see all the same things everyone else does with DC. He just looks like a winning player along the lines of guys like Podz, DWhite and Jasquez. I'm sure by me saying that will make anyone who reads it think all the more reason to draft him instead lol. Again I get it, I don't think the team would be wrong in taking him and I'd be perfectly fine/happy with them doing so. My only slight concern is that he only has a single season shooting at a decent (not elite) clip, he had 2 seasons shooting UNDER 30%. While he does seem to "play bigger" than his height, I do have a little concern his shooting numbers may drop again against better competition in the NBA. I know his game isn't reliant on his shooting & has really good versatility but that can't be forgotten.

While I think DC would fit nicely, could even maybe play him alongside IQ here & there....I just think McCain makes for pretty much easy replication of IQ's skillset so the team can run the same sets and wouldn't have to switch up their style of play much. McCain is an ELITE shooter with a quick release that is without question very valuable in today's game. I just think he'd keep the floor more open for Scottie & RJ and given his added strength but similar skillset and again quicker release, I wouldn't be surprised if in time he pushed IQ for the starting spot. IQ really needs to set his feet, has a fairly wide stance and needs a bit more time/space to get his shot off, McCain it flies out, obv NOT the level of Steph but when you can shoot over 41% and there's little time to respond it just does have a gravity on the defence...then combine that with Gradey, it could be lights out. But overall I could see McCain making IQ more dispensable to upgrade the roster at other positions down the line or act as a good piece himself in a larger trade.

But again I'll be really happy with drafting either guy, it's just a matter of preference I guess.

Good write-up. Yeah, I asked because I'm personally stuck on who to draft at 19. I'm fully behind the idea of drafting BPA at 6, a guard at 19, and a big at 31. But which guard to draft is giving me pause. I'm not as high on Collier as a few here, so for me it's between McCain and Carter.

I'm leaning Carter, but that's because I really value two way play. But I need to dive more into McCain's film I think.

In terms of a big at 31, I'm not too picky and will likely take whoever falls (Holmes, Ware, Comeche), or draft whichever wing falls ( Jaylon, Dunn, H.Sallis, K.George, J.Watkins). IMO we'll have options at 31

PD28 wrote:

God Squad wrote:People are comparing these prospects to literal superstars when I'd be elated with getting a role player.

Same. Watching some great role players elevating their teams this year in the playoffs - Jaden McDaniels, Dereck Lively. We just need to hit on one of these picks to make some strides next year.

My thoughts exactly. This Raptors team is lacking in depth in the worst way. We can't rely on the Nwora, Gueye, Jalen McDaniels to consistently give production. We should be in asset accumulation mode, and try to round out the roster.

Plus seeing comparisons like "Holland/Castle is the next Jimmy Butler" somewhat irks me. When I'd be happy if Holland turned into an Arieza type. But I get it, it's cooler to compare prospects to current Superstars.

MainEvent wrote:

Psubs wrote:

grant101 wrote:
He's young, has a decent motor, is reasonably athletic, but most of all looks the part of (tall, long, good frame). His shot also looks ok. And, because he's relatively new to the sport, ppl think he'll grow into learning the game... I'm less convinced

If he' grows another inch, he could be a Blake Griffin kind of PF.

Maybe I missed the clips.. PPL keep saying Salaun is a crazy athlete but I haven't really seen it in his highlights.
Good athlete but def not anywhere close to Griffin

Probably the most overrated prospect projected in the lotto IMO. I see the appeal in terms of "Potential", but he sucks at basketball right now. Specifically being lost on defense, something about watching him throws me off.

I wouldn't be mad at the pick, but I feel many here haven't seen him play and fall for "potential" over substance.

Sarr
Holland
Topic

I'm happy coming away with any of these 3. I think they have the highest upside in the top 6. Their floors are worrisome though aside from Sarr