RealGM

Big time loss by Darko there... clutch.

LOL AT THIS THREAD! Page 2 and y' all are still crying, lmao.

Happy we got the clutch loss, yet the relentless hindsight negativity and whining is insufferable.

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

funny that you complain about insulting, but start your post off with an insult.

rapsincr wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

funny that you complain about insulting, but start your post off with an insult.

Sure, but he's not wrong.

Half of the posters who complain about the FO are not even tankers like me. I know because they used to call out tanking as useless over the past 3 years when I was calling for tanking.

They are just fed up with the stupidity of the current situation

For the tanker-complainers, stop the misinformation.

islandboy53 wrote:

rapsincr wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

funny that you complain about insulting, but start your post off with an insult.

Sure, but he's not wrong.

sure he is. people here talk like everything is black and white, their side is correct and the other side is wrong, their side is reasonable and the other side isnt, their side is respectful while the other side is rude and hurls insults constantly. they do all of this while making blanket statements that ALL people with opposing views are a certain way. anyone that has any sense knows their are plenty of posters on both sides that have legitimate reasons to their opinions and a respectful while debating said opinions, and both sides have people who just like to argue and insult. this whole VS thing is silly and immature and not even correct.

i will bet if we look at his post history hes just as guilty as anyone on the other side of insulting people and arguing disingenuously.

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

Oh the irony.

Pointgod wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

Oh the irony.

Just ask him if he’d do that garbage Poeltl trade again

DelAbbot wrote:Half of the posters who complain about the FO are not even tankers like me. I know because they used to call out tanking as useless over the past 3 years when I was calling for tanking.

They are just fed up with the stupidity of the current situation

For the tanker-complainers, stop the misinformation.

They just lost. Its what you want. And you are whining about something else. You just never stop whining.

rapsincr wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

funny that you complain about insulting, but start your post off with an insult.

A mod said inciting that doesn't lead to discussion warrants a warning iirc.

720 wrote:

Pointgod wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

Oh the irony.

Just ask him if he’d do that garbage Poeltl trade again

Would do 100/100. I don't trust a board that values Nic Claxton over Yak.

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

There's obviously more that needs to be done other than Tanking, but let's see.

Magic was drafted by the Lakers #1 and we all know who he is.

Hakeem was darfted in that legendary draft and it lead to 2 Titles for Houston.

There was also that Michael Jorden, Scottie Pippen pairing, they were pretty good.

Lebron was drafted #1 by the Cavs and subsequently the Cavs getting Kyrie and another #1 pick lead to their only title.

The Spurs and their twin towers, and now Wemby.

My point is you:

1. Need to be in a good draft
2. Need to be in good draft position to actually draft that player
3. If that all falls then you need another player with All Star/NBA potential or else you're in that first phase with Lebron and the Cavs
4. Make actually good moves
5. Luck

In general what matters most if your best player, otherwise you're a regular season team at best or most likely stuck in mediocrity which is the worst position to be in.

Vampirate wrote:

Shakril wrote:Tankers are a miserable bunch. Rooting for losing, understanding nothing about teambuilding, blaming and insulting everyone that doesnt agree or in case of the FO dont do what they want. The best part, tanking doesnt even work.

There's obviously more that needs to be done other than Tanking, but let's see.

Magic was drafted by the Lakers #1 and we all know who he is.

Hakeem was darfted in that legendary draft and it lead to 2 Titles for Houston.

There was also that Michael Jorden, Scottie Pippen pairing, they were pretty good.

Lebron was drafted #1 by the Cavs and subsequently the Cavs getting Kyrie and another #1 pick lead to their only title.

The Spurs and their twin towers, and now Wemby.

My point is you:

1. Need to be in a good draft
2. Need to be in good draft position to actually draft that player
3. If that all falls then you need another player with All Star/NBA potential or else you're in that first phase with Lebron and the Cavs
4. Make actually good moves
5. Luck

In general what matters most if your best player, otherwise you're a regular season team at best or most likely stuck in mediocrity which is the worst position to be in.

There are plenty of other examples, too. Dallas traded the 6th overall pick for Dirk (who was taken 9th). The Warriors drafted Steph 7th. Wade was drafted 5th overall. Even teams that signed their way to titles, like the Lakers and Heat, signed multiple former high draft picks (Shaq #1, LeBron #1, Bosh #4, AD #1).

The whole tanking argument is so played out. Who cares if tanking works. Drafting works. Especially in markets like Toronto. The Raptors ownership group is profits first. Only situational tanking will be accepted.

Some of you guys been arguing back and forth ad nauseam and will never agree.

The last time the Finals MVP was his own team's top 5 pick was 2014—Spurs, Tim Duncan. (No, LeBron doesn't count, he rejoined the Cavs as a free agent.)

The time before that: 2007—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

The time before that: 2006—Heat, Dwyane Wade.

The 3 times before that: 2005, 2003, 1999—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

And then it's Jordan before that.

So that's 1 time in the last 10 years, 4 times in the last 20 years, and 6 times in the last 25 years.

"Tanking is the best way to win" was a very safe thing to say at the turn of the century, when Jordan, Hakeem, and Duncan ruled in phases. But when it's happened one time in the last 17 years, maybe it's just not as true as it used to be.

webeye wrote:The last time the Finals MVP was his own team's top 5 pick was 2014—Spurs, Tim Duncan. (No, LeBron doesn't count, he rejoined the Cavs as a free agent.)

The time before that: 2007—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

The time before that: 2006—Heat, Dwyane Wade.

The 3 times before that: 2005, 2003, 1999—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

And then it's Jordan before that.

So that's 1 time in the last 10 years, 4 times in the last 20 years, and 6 times in the last 25 years.

"Tanking is the best way to win" was a very safe thing to say at the turn of the century, when Jordan, Hakeem, and Duncan ruled in phases. But when it's happened one time in the last 17 years, maybe it's just not as true as it used to be.

Tanking is an art. Many fail trying to tank or building on what talent it created. Some hit ground zero so hard that they cannot right themselves. Detroit a perfect example. Philly nearly failed.

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:

720 wrote:

Pointgod wrote:
Oh the irony.

Just ask him if he’d do that garbage Poeltl trade again

Would do 100/100. I don't trust a board that values Nic Claxton over Yak.

I never said anything about Claxton but imagine willingly trading those picks for Poeltl knowing we missed the playoffs both years since he’s been here (not his fault, this team never should have made a win now trade with that core.

webeye wrote:The last time the Finals MVP was his own team's top 5 pick was 2014—Spurs, Tim Duncan. (No, LeBron doesn't count, he rejoined the Cavs as a free agent.)

The time before that: 2007—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

The time before that: 2006—Heat, Dwyane Wade.

The 3 times before that: 2005, 2003, 1999—Spurs, Tim Duncan.

And then it's Jordan before that.

So that's 1 time in the last 10 years, 4 times in the last 20 years, and 6 times in the last 25 years.

"Tanking is the best way to win" was a very safe thing to say at the turn of the century, when Jordan, Hakeem, and Duncan ruled in phases. But when it's happened one time in the last 17 years, maybe it's just not as true as it used to be.

We’re not a FA destination, now check how many MVP’s were top 10 lotto picks in general. So the logic should be “what is the best way to get top talent”, answer is lottery, what is the most efficient way to then go about collecting said talent”. Lottery picks are the best way and more and more non FA destination teams are finding this out which is why we have a lot of young talented cores in the league all of a sudden.

OAKLEY_2 wrote:Tanking is an art.

This is right but only in the sense that it can mean something different to everyone, and might mean something different depending on when you're looking at it.

720 wrote:

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:

720 wrote:Just ask him if he’d do that garbage Poeltl trade again

Would do 100/100. I don't trust a board that values Nic Claxton over Yak.

I never said anything about Claxton but imagine willingly trading those picks for Poeltl knowing we missed the playoffs both years since he’s been here (not his fault, this team never should have made a win now trade with that core.

The Raptors didn't look into their crystal ball a little over a year ago, and see that they had already missed the playoffs that year and this before they made the trade. You understand that, right? If you're suggesting they SHOULD have seen that coming, fair enough. There is every reason to believe that they knew it was a possibility, but were taking one more chance on the FVV, Siakam, OG, Barnes core with Nurse at the helm. That didn't work out as hoped. They replaced Nurse, and when FVV was overpaid by Houston, they pivoted to the rebuild. With that said, Poeltl was more than simply a "win now" move.

Poeltl is the centre the team has been missing for a while - a rim protector who rebounds, passes, and scores without being a main feature in the offence.While he provided an important missing element needed for final evaluation of last year's group, he's also the kind of centre we need moving forward, and is also young enough to fill that role for several years moving forward. We'll need to acquire and develop his replacement moving forward, but for now he gives us a leg up on the rebuild. He allows us to focus in the short term on developing our young core, and getting us back to a competitive level sooner, which is a good thing imo. He has been, and will be, worth more to us than the extra pick would have been.