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kieferli wrote:We need to build like OKC, that’s the only way for Toronto have chances to win. OKC young’s fun to watch , they don’t need to sign a superstar to help them to be #1 in the West . Many young players they have look like can be an All stars or may ne superstar.

OKC's success mostly comes down to Shai developing into a MVP level player. Hard to replicate that.

kieferli wrote:We need to build like OKC, that’s the only way for Toronto have chances to win. OKC young’s fun to watch , they don’t need to sign a superstar to help them to be #1 in the West . Many young players they have look like can be an All stars or may ne superstar.

OKC built this squad by tanking. Really no other way to put it.

OKC's core (top 6 in minutes) and how they were acquired:

Shai - Trade (drafted 11th by Clippers)
Williams - Drafted 12th
Chet - Drafted 2nd
Dort - Undrafted FA (signed two-way)
Giddey - Drafted 6th
Wallace - Drafted 10th

dTox wrote:

Indeed wrote:

dTox wrote:
Siakam is not a great fit next to Scottie on Defense either, primarily because both can guard 2-4, and are undersized at the 5. There's a reason Siakam is playing the best defense of the past 3-4 years in Indy, there's not much positional overlap in the starting lineup. Murray's fit next to Scottie is so much superior than Scottie + Siakam on offense that it more than makes up for whatever he lacks on the other end of the floor. Regardless, this a pipedream, Denver is keeping Jamal.

Barnes can't guard 1-2, he is not quick enough, agreed by many here, can't turn his hip. Siakam can guard some of the 1s. So I am unsure you can have Murray and Barnes together, which is why Quickley is important due to his defense.

Siakam can guard 1-2 but he's not great at it, as we have seen many many times over the past 3-4 years, he's pretty much on the same tier as Barnes when it comes to guarding 1-2. Siakam can stay in front of his man better than Scottie, but Scottie knows how to leverage the team defense to make up for that and is a significantly better weakside defender. There is a reason why our championship coach Nurse and Darko both trusted Scottie over Siakam to guard 1-2 position. Main point is, Scottie is a much better fit next to Murray, and Siakam isn't a good enough defender to make up for it.

The sole reason for adding Poeltl is that our defense was bad.
Even now, you can probably re-watch at the games or at least the boxscore on DRtg.

It is easy to tell next year if you believe our defense is enough.

Chandan wrote:

Indeed wrote:

dTox wrote:
Siakam is not a great fit next to Scottie on Defense either, primarily because both can guard 2-4, and are undersized at the 5. There's a reason Siakam is playing the best defense of the past 3-4 years in Indy, there's not much positional overlap in the starting lineup. Murray's fit next to Scottie is so much superior than Scottie + Siakam on offense that it more than makes up for whatever he lacks on the other end of the floor. Regardless, this a pipedream, Denver is keeping Jamal.

Barnes can't guard 1-2, he is not quick enough, agreed by many here, can't turn his hip. Siakam can guard some of the 1s. So I am unsure you can have Murray and Barnes together, which is why Quickley is important due to his defense.

Quickley's defense is actually pretty suspect so far. But then he's playing darko ball so take it with a grain of salt.

Indeed, Quickley plays both ends, so it is probably difficult, plus we don't have a shot blocker the majority of time.
That being said, I think our weakness is defense, while our offense isn't any good, particularly having a non-scoring C.

6ixpessant wrote:He'll be signing his extension this summer, so no point in even thinking about it.

He's a very good player but I'm more interested in what Quickley becomes, he's younger, less mileage on his body and will cost less.

I also think the NBA has evolved past the small ball era, and if you're going to take a swing at someone... it's gonna have to be a big of some kind. I don't necessarily mean a center, but a long and strong body.

Vision 6'9, awesome idea

OakleyDokely wrote:

kieferli wrote:We need to build like OKC, that’s the only way for Toronto have chances to win. OKC young’s fun to watch , they don’t need to sign a superstar to help them to be #1 in the West . Many young players they have look like can be an All stars or may ne superstar.

OKC's success mostly comes down to Shai developing into a MVP level player. Hard to replicate that.

Yup, they achieved success primarily through that trade

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:

OakleyDokely wrote:

kieferli wrote:We need to build like OKC, that’s the only way for Toronto have chances to win. OKC young’s fun to watch , they don’t need to sign a superstar to help them to be #1 in the West . Many young players they have look like can be an All stars or may ne superstar.

OKC's success mostly comes down to Shai developing into a MVP level player. Hard to replicate that.

Yup, they achieved success primarily through that trade

If only we had an all-star in their prime to trade this past season....oh wait

dTox wrote:

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:

OakleyDokely wrote:
OKC's success mostly comes down to Shai developing into a MVP level player. Hard to replicate that.

Yup, they achieved success primarily through that trade

If only we had an all-star in their prime to trade this past season....oh wait

We could trade an all-star for three firsts and a solid player plus a fringe guy. An MVP player might get you 4 or five first rounds (pick swaps) and an above average player + fringe.

dTox wrote:I can't believe I just read a post claiming Murray is overrated. Dear God.

ignore them. Jaml passes the eye test, ployoff test, box score test and clutch test. Unfortunately, as depicted several times in this thread... he's got it pretty good beside a potential HOFer. the stars would have to line up really good to get him here. SGA is younger but on the tip of a dynasty.

WaltFrazier wrote:

6ixpessant wrote:He'll be signing his extension this summer, so no point in even thinking about it.

He's a very good player but I'm more interested in what Quickley becomes, he's younger, less mileage on his body and will cost less.

I also think the NBA has evolved past the small ball era, and if you're going to take a swing at someone... it's gonna have to be a big of some kind. I don't necessarily mean a center, but a long and strong body.

Vision 6'9, awesome idea

Not good with the critical thinking eh?

6ixpessant wrote:

WaltFrazier wrote:

6ixpessant wrote:He'll be signing his extension this summer, so no point in even thinking about it.

He's a very good player but I'm more interested in what Quickley becomes, he's younger, less mileage on his body and will cost less.

I also think the NBA has evolved past the small ball era, and if you're going to take a swing at someone... it's gonna have to be a big of some kind. I don't necessarily mean a center, but a long and strong body.

Vision 6'9, awesome idea

Not good with the critical thinking eh?

Just having fun. Yes they need a forward to replace Pascal and/or OG. Also a backup PG for IQ

OakleyDokely wrote:

kieferli wrote:We need to build like OKC, that’s the only way for Toronto have chances to win. OKC young’s fun to watch , they don’t need to sign a superstar to help them to be #1 in the West . Many young players they have look like can be an All stars or may ne superstar.

OKC's success mostly comes down to Shai developing into a MVP level player. Hard to replicate that.

Yeah exactly. If Kawhi didn’t decide to pair up with George, we wouldn’t be saying great things about OKC’s rebuild. A Giddey/Williams/Chet trio would not be good enough. Although Chet and Williams are great young talents, they will likely never be good enough to be the best player on a championship team. Cason is looking really nice as well. It will be interesting to see his development.

They would have picks and other young players to package for an all-star though.

If he's a UFA, of course you go after him.

Great player, but he will need a max plus whatever incentive off-court for him to leave Denver.

Sure playing at home is a big plus but the way our team is and predicted to be after next seasons, we cannot maximize his value.

He also has injury issue so it will be a bad fit for both of Murray and our team.

I remember scoffing when Denver signed him to that massive deal. That was before Bubble Murray. And last year we saw Finals Murray. No signs of slowing down this year.

Turns out he's just damn good when it matters.

OakleyDokely wrote:OKC's core (top 6 in minutes) and how they were acquired:

Shai - Trade (drafted 11th by Clippers)
Williams - Drafted 12th
Chet - Drafted 2nd
Dort - Undrafted FA (signed two-way)
Giddey - Drafted 6th
Wallace - Drafted 10th

SGA acquired due to PG (10th pick drafted by Pacers)

PG was acquired with Victor Oladipo (2nd overall by the Magic) and Domantas Sabonis (11th by Magic)

What this shows me is that having picks in the lottery is a very good thing.

TheAlchemist23 wrote:No, he's pretty overrated. Let's build the right way

Never been an all-star and he is overrated. Okay

Reeko wrote:I'm not even taking that into consideration. I'm speaking strictly from the assumption that SGA wants to win and if he's the lead dog on a team with two other potential all stars in Chet and Jalen, meanwhile the only good thing we have going for us at that point is still Scottie, then why would he want to leave?

Do you really think the Raptors' roster in 2027 will look almost exactly the same as it currently is in 2024? That's just a really over-the-top negative assumption to make.

MiamiSPX wrote:Counterpoint: Bringing them a title might make it easier to ditch them. Not as much backlash.

Exactly. I don't understand the 'we have no chance' narrative, especially considering Jamal helped Denver win a championship and wouldn't get potentially labelled as bailing on them. Same with Shai if OKC goes all the way in the next few years. And who knows, they could all be colluding about going home to the Raps as Team Canada teammates.

Mr Funk wrote:

Reeko wrote:I'm not even taking that into consideration. I'm speaking strictly from the assumption that SGA wants to win and if he's the lead dog on a team with two other potential all stars in Chet and Jalen, meanwhile the only good thing we have going for us at that point is still Scottie, then why would he want to leave?

Do you really think the Raptors' roster in 2027 will look almost exactly the same as it currently is in 2024? That's just a really over-the-top negative assumption to make.

Is it? I assume we will be better and that Scottie, RJ, IQ, and Gradey will all improve in that time frame but given how this FO has historically operated, do you really think the FO banking on internal development over the next 3 seasons is out of the realm of possibility?

You're right though, I was thinking in the absolute worse case scenario where Dick is a glorified 3 point specialist and IQ and RJ make only marginal improvements. However, SGA could be looking at playing alongside two top 25 players in the league for the next decade in Jalen Williams and Chet Holmgren.

If it's a matter of SGA wants to put himself in the best position to win, as presently constructed, I don't see how the answer isn't OKC. If it's a matter of SGA wanting to come home and represent the team he grew up rooting for in the place he calls home, then sure there's a great chance he'll sign with us.